great amateur pedigree.... but a shocking pro

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 04 Mar 2007, 12:58

a comment by ian 'mr' mcneilly on another thread has made me think.

who is the worst professional they have seen who was actually a decent pro.

im not sure cos im not overly tuned with the amateur scene over the last 10 years but surely david dolan, for all of his amateur pedigree and awards, if he does not get his finger out will surely start to fall into this bracket. he has been far from impressive since he decided to 'punch for pay'

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 04 Mar 2007, 13:01

What Amateur Pedigree are you talking about?

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 04 Mar 2007, 13:04

im talking about people who have shone on the domestic and international amateur circuit, perhaps won senior ABA titles, worn england vests and maybe picked up medals at commonwealth games etc...

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 04 Mar 2007, 13:11

This post in the Amateur Section lists a whole list of great Amateurs that went bust as Pros.

You wont be surprised not to see any British, they just bum out in the Amateurs before even geting to the pros

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6872

Arbachakov · Post by **Arbachakov** » 04 Mar 2007, 13:15

Errol Christie

Vernon Sollas

Billy Knight

Ulysses · Post by **Ulysses** » 04 Mar 2007, 13:26

Matthew Thirlwall so far has disapointed.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 04 Mar 2007, 14:14

Audley Harrison - from Olympic gold medallist to a busted flush as a pro, not even the British title to his name. Has to be the biggest drop from top amateur to crap pro in British ring history

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 04 Mar 2007, 14:24

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6872

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 04 Mar 2007, 14:37

i was referring to english (british) amateurs predominantly

chris s · Post by **chris s** » 04 Mar 2007, 15:45

Jamie Branch

kevin · Post by **kevin** » 04 Mar 2007, 15:54

Alex Arthur and Haider Ali haven't/didn't set the pro scene alight despite commonwealth success

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 04 Mar 2007, 15:56

chris s wrote:Jamie Branch

Wasnt he nicknamed 007?

A lightheavy as I remember, did he return to the vest after a poor spell as a pro?

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 04 Mar 2007, 16:25

There is a phenomenonly long list of former amateurs who you would have thought would cut it as a pro and didn’t. What does cutting as a pro mean anyway? Winning British/Commonwealth/Europen titles or going on to win the World title that is on offer?

The best that I can think of is Errol Christie. He won every title on offer as a junior at domestic level That is 4 schoolboy, 3 NABC, 2 junior ABA and as a 17 year old switched to the seniors and picked up the senior ABA title. I am sure to my knowledge that he was the first to do it. He really was a star that most people of the time thought would go on to achieve much in the pro game. He fought a LHW when he was a MW and came undone. He was then designated as a guy with a dodgy chin which was eventually proved to be the case.

There are countless others that knew their way round a boxng ring at domestic amateur level that could not translate that in the pro ring. To me it has a lot to do with developing those amateur skills to a level, within the pro game, with a naked unabated ambition and desire to dig and win at any cost.

Too often a star amateur will have accolades thrown on him (kudos from the region he comes from and all that) because of their achievements over a long formative period as a kid to young adulthood. This never prepares them for real adversity in a pro ring over 10/12 hard rounds. And it is their psyche that will determine how far they go as a pro as much as anything, given their undoubted ability.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 04 Mar 2007, 19:05

Well Audley Harrison's already been mentioned so I got no one to name. :(

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 04 Mar 2007, 19:14

Max Molyneux wrote:Well Audley Harrison's already been mentioned so I got no one to name. :(

Well you are just a sprogg that takes what he sees? Yes or No ?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 04 Mar 2007, 19:17

SticknMove wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Well Audley Harrison's already been mentioned so I got no one to name. :(
Well you are just a sprogg that takes what he sees? Yes or No ?

And Sprogg means?

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 04 Mar 2007, 19:23

Max Molyneux wrote:
SticknMove wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Well Audley Harrison's already been mentioned so I got no one to name. :(
Well you are just a sprogg that takes what he sees? Yes or No ?
And Sprogg means?

What do you think it might mean? Since questions are the flavour of the day 8)

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Mar 2007, 19:33

Didn't David Walker join the Class of 2002 of the back of an extensive Amateur record.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 05 Mar 2007, 05:29

SticknMove wrote:There is a phenomenonly long list of former amateurs who you would have thought would cut it as a pro and didn’t. What does cutting as a pro mean anyway? Winning British/Commonwealth/Europen titles or going on to win the World title that is on offer?

The best that I can think of is Errol Christie. He won every title on offer as a junior at domestic level That is 4 schoolboy, 3 NABC, 2 junior ABA and as a 17 year old switched to the seniors and picked up the senior ABA title. I am sure to my knowledge that he was the first to do it. He really was a star that most people of the time thought would go on to achieve much in the pro game. He fought a LHW when he was a MW and came undone. He was then designated as a guy with a dodgy chin which was eventually proved to be the case.

There are countless others that knew their way round a boxng ring at domestic amateur level that could not translate that in the pro ring. To me it has a lot to do with developing those amateur skills to a level, within the pro game, with a naked unabated ambition and desire to dig and win at any cost.

Too often a star amateur will have accolades thrown on him (kudos from the region he comes from and all that) because of their achievements over a long formative period as a kid to young adulthood. This never prepares them for real adversity in a pro ring over 10/12 hard rounds. And it is their psyche that will determine how far they go as a pro as much as anything, given their undoubted ability.

errol christie was awesome, he had the same amount of skill as any champion of the modern era..but something was missing, perhaps it was the chin which led to a loss of confidence. christie v kaylor......wow.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 05 Mar 2007, 06:50

Adrian Dodoson for me - He had bundles of ability, but for some odd reason it just didn't happen in the pro ranks.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 05 Mar 2007, 07:10

rhino222 wrote:
SticknMove wrote:There is a phenomenonly long list of former amateurs who you would have thought would cut it as a pro and didn’t. What does cutting as a pro mean anyway? Winning British/Commonwealth/Europen titles or going on to win the World title that is on offer?

The best that I can think of is Errol Christie. He won every title on offer as a junior at domestic level That is 4 schoolboy, 3 NABC, 2 junior ABA and as a 17 year old switched to the seniors and picked up the senior ABA title. I am sure to my knowledge that he was the first to do it. He really was a star that most people of the time thought would go on to achieve much in the pro game. He fought a LHW when he was a MW and came undone. He was then designated as a guy with a dodgy chin which was eventually proved to be the case.

There are countless others that knew their way round a boxng ring at domestic amateur level that could not translate that in the pro ring. To me it has a lot to do with developing those amateur skills to a level, within the pro game, with a naked unabated ambition and desire to dig and win at any cost.

Too often a star amateur will have accolades thrown on him (kudos from the region he comes from and all that) because of their achievements over a long formative period as a kid to young adulthood. This never prepares them for real adversity in a pro ring over 10/12 hard rounds. And it is their psyche that will determine how far they go as a pro as much as anything, given their undoubted ability.
errol christie was awesome, he had the same amount of skill as any champion of the modern era..but something was missing, perhaps it was the chin which led to a loss of confidence. christie v kaylor......wow.

Yeah he was as complete a boxer at amateur level to make the switch to the pros that I have ever seen.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 05 Mar 2007, 07:10

SticknMove wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
SticknMove wrote: Well you are just a sprogg that takes what he sees? Yes or No ?
And Sprogg means?
What do you think it might mean? Since questions are the flavour of the day 8)

Sorry Max there was no need for that.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 05 Mar 2007, 08:21

Brian Schumacher

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 05 Mar 2007, 08:53

kevin wrote:Alex Arthur and Haider Ali haven't/didn't set the pro scene alight despite commonwealth success

dont you mean jamie arthur.

dookus · Post by **dookus** » 05 Mar 2007, 09:18

Paul King - twice ABA semi-finalist, 5-11 journeyman as pro.

Billy Wilson hasn't exactly done stellar as a pro. I met him when I was training (briefly) in the old York All Saints gym a few summers back. He apparently had a good amateur record as a teenager - boxed for England Schools, stopped 26 of 38 opponents against only a few losses - and when I met him he was a very nice fella and even laced my gloves up for me, which I thought was a nice gesture as I was having my 4th or 5th session and this guy was having his first pro fight in a month or two!

Anyway, we had a quick chat, and I asked him what weight he was turning pro at - Heavyweight, he said. I smiled and said something to the effect of "Heavyweight? That's ambitious" which earned me a slightly desultory look and a mini-tirade (not an aggressive one) about how he didn't see that many threats up at domestic level, and that he thought he had the talent to go a little bit further, European level maybe, and maybe even the big one, a world title.

One of our training exercises was to run up and down Clifford's Tower, which has this massively long set of stairs at a steep angle. Our task was to, after running all the way out there from the gym, to go up the stairs and down 8 times two steps at a time, then repeat one step at a time. As I grimaced and huffed and puffed my way up and down, I couldn't help but notice him up at the top having stopped, and panting a bit about 4 or 5 reps before the end, talking about the hardcore sparring he'd been having lately. "Surely not", I thought, "the geezer's a fornicating pro. Maybe he's got a load of sparring to do or something." We finished up and ran back, and he did a load of sparring without a headguard on with one of the lads that I later sparred for a bit (three rounds, to be precise, before booze and drugs once again took me away from doing any training at all).

Sure enough, the articles appear in the York Evening Press about how Pinky Burton's cousin Billy is coming for the British title, he's gonna take it slowly for the first few fights and then get going straight for the top. I scanned Boxrec and all the local news websites for Billy's debut, and he comes up against.....another debutant, one Carl Baker, who chins him in the second round.

Bugger.

Billy went on to beat a couple of stiffs (including a one-point victory over Paul King) until losing to Chris Woollas on points in December 2004...he came back at the end of 2005 and managed to score his only stoppage over some guy who was 15 pounds lighter and had a 2-18 record. His last fight? Getting sparked by Tony Booth a week or two ago, who hasn't knocked anyone out in ages.

Ah well. The geezer gave it a shot.