Couldn't agree more.Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:So hwo goods Mundine? I think he may have the style to take Calazage personally, styles make fights though and Kessler may be just all wrong for him in a rematch.
Mundine Spanked Soliman
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pundit
- Heavyweight
He's certainly better than Manfredo jnr. And Pudwill. And Mitchell. And Veit. And..... well, you get the picture. He's probably better than Lacy as well, although I don't think he's as good as Eubank.
However, the depressing thing is that I remain convinced that Calzaghe, in the right frame of mind, would beat Mundine with something to spare. Even at 80%, I still think he'd have too much. And that's what pisses me off. Calzaghe convinced himself long ago that he was the best super-middleweight the world has ever seen. And he really doesn't give a fornicate whether anyone else believes that or not.
However, the depressing thing is that I remain convinced that Calzaghe, in the right frame of mind, would beat Mundine with something to spare. Even at 80%, I still think he'd have too much. And that's what pisses me off. Calzaghe convinced himself long ago that he was the best super-middleweight the world has ever seen. And he really doesn't give a fornicate whether anyone else believes that or not.
I think he's making a massive peak in his career right now. Has the look of someone who can be a p4p level talent.Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:So hwo goods Mundine? I think he may have the style to take Calazage personally, styles make fights though and Kessler may be just all wrong for him in a rematch.
Everything looks right - defence, clean punching, handspeed, just the right amount of aggression. He used to be a bt too cautious but now seems to have a fire lit under him if the Green & Soliman 2 fights are anyting to do by.
I'd say right now, Calzaghe's throne is under serious threat from Kessler and Mundine.
Calzaghe is less effective vs a counter puncher. Mundine would be able to turn his chin, shoulder, body inward to deflect a lot of Calzaghe's flurries and possibly step away and land counters. Calzaghe would definitely look awkward coming forward, probably off balance, succeptible to counters.
Kessler looks a bit too big for Mundine, although Mundine gave him a spirited, competitive fight last time and is capable of doing a bit better.
Mundine fought very negativly against Kessler, He was countering the whole fight.When he actually attacked Kessler had no answer to his hand speed and looked awful. If he fought more aggressive he may have beaten Kessler or got stopped but who knows.viciousmaussa wrote:I think he's making a massive peak in his career right now. Has the look of someone who can be a p4p level talent.Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:So hwo goods Mundine? I think he may have the style to take Calazage personally, styles make fights though and Kessler may be just all wrong for him in a rematch.
Everything looks right - defence, clean punching, handspeed, just the right amount of aggression. He used to be a bt too cautious but now seems to have a fire lit under him if the Green & Soliman 2 fights are anyting to do by.
I'd say right now, Calzaghe's throne is under serious threat from Kessler and Mundine.
Calzaghe is less effective vs a counter puncher. Mundine would be able to turn his chin, shoulder, body inward to deflect a lot of Calzaghe's flurries and possibly step away and land counters. Calzaghe would definitely look awkward coming forward, probably off balance, succeptible to counters.
Kessler looks a bit too big for Mundine, although Mundine gave him a spirited, competitive fight last time and is capable of doing a bit better.
Since working with RJsnr he has become far more aggressive and even had Green going backwards which no other fighter has been able to do.
I hate to admit this as i think Mundine is a dickhead but he is getting better with every fight and i think he could really trouble both Calzaghe and Kessler if they fight, He says he may move to middle and i can see him really being a force at that weight.
I actually think the Kessler fight has made Mundine a much better fighter. As if he realises he belongs right up there, if only he'd put more in. Ok he's not had to deal with Kessler-style problems since. But like you say he totally dominated Green and spanked Soliman, who is a very difficult style.
I knew Mundine was going to win. But I was certain it'd be a cautious counterpunching standoff, with Mundine being faster on the trigger
I knew Mundine was going to win. But I was certain it'd be a cautious counterpunching standoff, with Mundine being faster on the trigger
I though it would be a counterpunching fight to, But from the opening round Mundine just moved in for the kill with huge body shots and straight rights.viciousmaussa wrote:I actually think the Kessler fight has made Mundine a much better fighter. As if he realises he belongs right up there, if only he'd put more in. Ok he's not had to deal with Kessler-style problems since. But like you say he totally dominated Green and spanked Soliman, who is a very difficult style.
I knew Mundine was going to win. But I was certain it'd be a cautious counterpunching standoff, with Mundine being faster on the trigger
I know people are always going to doubt him ( myself included) but he is proving me wrong more and more with every fight. The way he fought last night reminded me of a young RJJ and im sure that working with RJsnr is what has improved him.
I think his confidence has improved with these wins and he is trying to get a rematch with Kessler which is a very brave move considering most other fighters are avioding him.
but when you look at mundines cv, he has never ducked anyone. i expect to see a hennessy press release in the near future with the mighty froch saying what he will do too mundine. trying to goad mundine to follow his pride and get to nottingham. if hannessy structures the bill correctly, froch v mundine could go down a treat at the city ground late summer ish !!states wrote:Could Mick come up with the money though? Mundine has to be making a few quid down in Australia. I agree though, good fight.
Does Froch even sell out Nottingham Ice Arena?rhino222 wrote:but when you look at mundines cv, he has never ducked anyone. i expect to see a hennessy press release in the near future with the mighty froch saying what he will do too mundine. trying to goad mundine to follow his pride and get to nottingham. if hannessy structures the bill correctly, froch v mundine could go down a treat at the city ground late summer ish !!states wrote:Could Mick come up with the money though? Mundine has to be making a few quid down in Australia. I agree though, good fight.
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Phenomenal-Nutrition
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5185
- Joined: 10 Feb 2005, 14:53
I doubt Hennessey could pay Mundines wages, I can't remember what hes on but its big bucks. Number 1 paid athlete in Oz I thinkrhino222 wrote:but when you look at mundines cv, he has never ducked anyone. i expect to see a hennessy press release in the near future with the mighty froch saying what he will do too mundine. trying to goad mundine to follow his pride and get to nottingham. if hannessy structures the bill correctly, froch v mundine could go down a treat at the city ground late summer ish !!states wrote:Could Mick come up with the money though? Mundine has to be making a few quid down in Australia. I agree though, good fight.
Mundine made around 3.5mil for the green fight plus percentage of the payperview so he probably made 4.5 mil or 1.8 mil in your money.Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I doubt Hennessey could pay Mundines wages, I can't remember what hes on but its big bucks. Number 1 paid athlete in Oz I thinkrhino222 wrote:but when you look at mundines cv, he has never ducked anyone. i expect to see a hennessy press release in the near future with the mighty froch saying what he will do too mundine. trying to goad mundine to follow his pride and get to nottingham. if hannessy structures the bill correctly, froch v mundine could go down a treat at the city ground late summer ish !!states wrote:Could Mick come up with the money though? Mundine has to be making a few quid down in Australia. I agree though, good fight.
Mundine probably makes more than Calzaghe to be honest.
That's the thing with Mundine. He makes so much at home that you'd think none of these thrifty little promoters can afford him.
The way he's looked in the past year, he'd be a super fight opponent for Calzaghe. Last time Warren made an offer - how much was it again? I know it was a totally feeble sum + 3 or 4 fight options.
The way he's looked in the past year, he'd be a super fight opponent for Calzaghe. Last time Warren made an offer - how much was it again? I know it was a totally feeble sum + 3 or 4 fight options.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45232
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
Beat me to it. In the absence of an amateur career, Mundine has learnt some harsh lessons as a pro, by fighting at top level with very little experience, and is probably coming into his prime now having learnt the lessons of the Ottke fight and Kessler fight, not to mention his fight with green.viciousmaussa wrote:I actually think the Kessler fight has made Mundine a much better fighter. As if he realises he belongs right up there, if only he'd put more in. Ok he's not had to deal with Kessler-style problems since. But like you say he totally dominated Green and spanked Soliman, who is a very difficult style.
I knew Mundine was going to win. But I was certain it'd be a cautious counterpunching standoff, with Mundine being faster on the trigger
He maybe has more confidence in his power now, whereas previously he was scared to stand and trade, though in saying that, Soliman is a career middlweight and a light punching one at that who built his wins on volume punching rather than hard punching, so we need to be careful not to read too much into this.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45232
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
Agreed, these guys are getting on with fighting whilst Calzaghe is making excuses one after the other. If Calzaghe takes on Kessler, all will be forgiven, but I doubt it will happen, Calzaghe is only interested in getting paid now, not real legacy building fights.Lenny Albert wrote:but green was the hard puncher, soliman brought something different to the table and Mundine has despatched him like no one else.
a rematch with Kessler would be great and it's nice to see the supermiddle weight division move on from Calzaghe. let the fighters fight whilst Joe talks of his "legacy"
If Calzaghe were to beat Kessler and say, Oh, Bute and Mundine, I think he could claim to have been the best, certainly since Ottke retired.
When you look at his last few fights, with the exception of Lacy, since Mitchell in 2003.
Mkrtchian, Salem, Veit, Ashira, Bika, Manfredo............
Christ, it's pretty piss poor isn't it! 8 fights in four years with only one really noteworthy opponent!
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45232
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
Don't forget Berrio.jamesmcdonnell wrote:Agreed, these guys are getting on with fighting whilst Calzaghe is making excuses one after the other. If Calzaghe takes on Kessler, all will be forgiven, but I doubt it will happen, Calzaghe is only interested in getting paid now, not real legacy building fights.Lenny Albert wrote:but green was the hard puncher, soliman brought something different to the table and Mundine has despatched him like no one else.
a rematch with Kessler would be great and it's nice to see the supermiddle weight division move on from Calzaghe. let the fighters fight whilst Joe talks of his "legacy"
If Calzaghe were to beat Kessler and say, Oh, Bute and Mundine, I think he could claim to have been the best, certainly since Ottke retired.
When you look at his last few fights, with the exception of Lacy, since Mitchell in 2003.
Mkrtchian, Salem, Veit, Ashira, Bika, Manfredo............
Christ, it's pretty piss poor isn't it! 8 fights in four years with only one really noteworthy opponent!
Calzaghe is like Holmes, after Holmes beat Cooney. Holmes traded his WBC for an IBF and hand picked his opponents. In the meantime there were talented rival title holders like Michael Dokes and John Tate.
Luckily for Holmes, he didn't fight these young talents before they got screwed up by drugs. In a real stroke of good fortune, Dokes would draw with Weaver, who Holmes already beat. And Tate would lose to Weaver AND Berbick, who Holmes had beaten also.
Calzaghe must be hoping that Kessler, Mundine, all these good fighters start losing, so he can say they never were that good & excuse himself from nott aking meaningful fights.
God knows he he can say "I'm in the wrong era" when there are so many excellent fighters around.
It's really iratating that Calzaghe will most likely retire undeafeted, Without ever facing the best champions in his weight class(Ottke,Beyer,Kessler,Mundine), This is really going to hurt how he is viewed in the future and its sad becuase the dumb bastard probably had the talent to beat most of them and cement his legacy.viciousmaussa wrote:Don't forget Berrio.jamesmcdonnell wrote:Agreed, these guys are getting on with fighting whilst Calzaghe is making excuses one after the other. If Calzaghe takes on Kessler, all will be forgiven, but I doubt it will happen, Calzaghe is only interested in getting paid now, not real legacy building fights.Lenny Albert wrote:but green was the hard puncher, soliman brought something different to the table and Mundine has despatched him like no one else.
a rematch with Kessler would be great and it's nice to see the supermiddle weight division move on from Calzaghe. let the fighters fight whilst Joe talks of his "legacy"
If Calzaghe were to beat Kessler and say, Oh, Bute and Mundine, I think he could claim to have been the best, certainly since Ottke retired.
When you look at his last few fights, with the exception of Lacy, since Mitchell in 2003.
Mkrtchian, Salem, Veit, Ashira, Bika, Manfredo............
Christ, it's pretty piss poor isn't it! 8 fights in four years with only one really noteworthy opponent!
Calzaghe is like Holmes, after Holmes beat Cooney. Holmes traded his WBC for an IBF and hand picked his opponents. In the meantime there were talented rival title holders like Michael Dokes and John Tate.
Luckily for Holmes, he didn't fight these young talents before they got screwed up by drugs. In a real stroke of good fortune, Dokes would draw with Weaver, who Holmes already beat. And Tate would lose to Weaver AND Berbick, who Holmes had beaten also.
Calzaghe must be hoping that Kessler, Mundine, all these good fighters start losing, so he can say they never were that good & excuse himself from nott aking meaningful fights.
God knows he he can say "I'm in the wrong era" when there are so many excellent fighters around.
Just watched the fight & i wasn't impressed by Mundine. It was the first time that i had seen Soliman ever & the first time i'd seen Mundine since Ottke put him to sleep.
Mundine has fast hands but had very poor footwork & (i remembered it being much better in the Ottke fight) low workrate and subpar defence. Calzaghe would make him look silly. Soliman looked tiny compared to Mundine too.
I think that Froch would be a great opponent for Mundine but he said in the post fight interview that he is planning to drop down to MW.
Mundine has fast hands but had very poor footwork & (i remembered it being much better in the Ottke fight) low workrate and subpar defence. Calzaghe would make him look silly. Soliman looked tiny compared to Mundine too.
I think that Froch would be a great opponent for Mundine but he said in the post fight interview that he is planning to drop down to MW.