The best Pacific Northwest heavyweights ever

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 07 Mar 2007, 21:02

-Boone Kirkman
-Thad Spencer
-Joe Hipp
-Gordie Racette
-Harry "Kid" Matthews
-Pete Rademacher
-Pat McMurtry
-Ibar Arrington
-George Logan
-Terry Hinke
-Pat Duncan
-Kenny Keene (although officially a cruiserweight he fought at the same weight as most of the others on the list)

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 08 Mar 2007, 10:38

I think McMurtry was the most talented of the lot. He wasn't a big hitter, & on the small side. A lot like Pastrano, until he moved back to L.H. That's a bad combination, but from the lot you've assembled here, I think he's the best. Kirkman should have been better, but boxers gave him trouble. Rademacher was thrown to the wolves. Patterson & Folley to start his career. He won the Olympics though, & you've got to be good to do that. Had he been handled properly, a top 5 ranking might have been about the best he could have attained. Most of the guys are journeymen. Logan was a tough guy. You must be a fan of the 50's & 60's like me.

UpWithEvil · Post by **UpWithEvil** » 08 Mar 2007, 14:19

Boonoe Kirkman was the first name that jumped to my mind - yours too, apparantly!

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 08 Mar 2007, 15:56

I didn't list them in any particular order. But Boone was probably the most popular boxer in NW boxing history. He fought George Foreman in New York but fought Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Ellis and Doug Jones in front of 14,000 seat sellouts in Seattle. Boone ended his career boxing an exhibition with Gerry Cooney in Eugene, Oregon in 1983.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 08 Mar 2007, 20:12

Joe Kahut should be mentioned as well. He fought over 50 main events in Portland. Though he didn't beat the very best fighters generally, no man ever brought more fans into the gates in Portland than Kahut.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 08 Mar 2007, 22:34

tegenm wrote:Joe Kahut should be mentioned as well. He fought over 50 main events in Portland. Though he didn't beat the very best fighters generally, no man ever brought more fans into the gates in Portland than Kahut.

Perhaps....the first 5 years of his career he was great but during the last eight years he went 18-23-2. Though he was a draw his career would put him into a second tier....maybe the next twenty.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 09 Mar 2007, 01:32

Had Rademacher been brought along properly, I think he could have potentially contended with Patterson and especially Ingo. He was a terrific talent, but never had a chance to develop as a professional.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 09 Mar 2007, 10:45

iceman21287 wrote:Had Rademacher been brought along properly, I think he could have potentially contended with Patterson and especially Ingo. He was a terrific talent, but never had a chance to develop as a professional.

Apparently his manager George Chemeres threw him into the deep water. I believe that Jack Hurley promoted the fight with Patterson in Sick's Stadium. It was a heckuva publicity success and they nearly pulled off a huge upset.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 09 Mar 2007, 11:01

actjac wrote:
tegenm wrote:Joe Kahut should be mentioned as well. He fought over 50 main events in Portland. Though he didn't beat the very best fighters generally, no man ever brought more fans into the gates in Portland than Kahut.
Perhaps....the first 5 years of his career he was great but during the last eight years he went 18-23-2. Though he was a draw his career would put him into a second tier....maybe the next twenty.

Yeah he was washed up after about 1949, and fought way too long past his prime. I don't think you should just overrate modern guys who fight softer opposition, and have glossier records. There's no way a guy like George Logan should rate higher than Kahut who was rated as high as #5 at Light Heavy and later again at Heavyweight in 1948.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 09 Mar 2007, 11:07

I agree that Rademacher could have been brought along a little slower, however he was already 29 when he turned pro, and realistically only probably could expect 4 to 5 good years as a pro. He was college educated, and had other interests beyond boxing. If a great manager like Hurley can secure you a title shot in your debut, you'd be dumb not to take it. Even in defeat Rademacher is more famous for that loss, than anything else he accomplished in boxing.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 09 Mar 2007, 11:31

tegenm wrote:
actjac wrote:
tegenm wrote:Joe Kahut should be mentioned as well. He fought over 50 main events in Portland. Though he didn't beat the very best fighters generally, no man ever brought more fans into the gates in Portland than Kahut.
Perhaps....the first 5 years of his career he was great but during the last eight years he went 18-23-2. Though he was a draw his career would put him into a second tier....maybe the next twenty.
Yeah he was washed up after about 1949, and fought way too long past his prime. I don't think you should just overrate modern guys who fight softer opposition, and have glossier records. There's no way a guy like George Logan should rate higher than Kahut who was rated as high as #5 at Light Heavy and later again at Heavyweight in 1948.

It is a shame that the heavyweights on the list did not meet in the ring. Especially those that were contemporaries. There were many potential match-ups.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 09 Mar 2007, 12:39

actjac wrote:
tegenm wrote:
actjac wrote: Perhaps....the first 5 years of his career he was great but during the last eight years he went 18-23-2. Though he was a draw his career would put him into a second tier....maybe the next twenty.
Yeah he was washed up after about 1949, and fought way too long past his prime. I don't think you should just overrate modern guys who fight softer opposition, and have glossier records. There's no way a guy like George Logan should rate higher than Kahut who was rated as high as #5 at Light Heavy and later again at Heavyweight in 1948.
It is a shame that the heavyweights on the list did not meet in the ring. Especially those that were contemporaries. There were many potential match-ups.

I agree with you there. Matthews especially should have fought Kahut and McMurtry. He would have trounced Kahut because of styles and the fact that their primes didn't match. McMurtry would have been a huge fight in 1956, but from my understanding McMurtry's team did not like Jack Hurley and did not want to do business with him.

I also think Kahut should have fought Tiger Jack Fox, but from what I understand his people only wanted that fight in Portland, where Fox couldn't get a license because of his age.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 09 Mar 2007, 12:51

Another potential match-up was a Kirkman-Arrington fight. Boone was from Renton and Ibar was from Everett. They had a number of common opponents and would have been a huge draw in Seattle.

JC · Post by JC » 09 Mar 2007, 12:55

Good thread guys, been interesting looking up the records of some of the guys I hadn't heard of.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 09 Mar 2007, 13:15

Of all of the Northwest heavyweights only Pete Rademacher and Joe Hipp were the only ones to fight for a world heavyweight title. In August of 1995 Hipp was matched against Bruce Seldon for the WBA championship (as part of the Tyson comeback event versus Peter McNeely). Hipp was very tough but never really had the refined skills. His management for some reason never thought it necessary to bring in a top or very experienced trainer. [

Ric · Post by **Ric** » 09 Mar 2007, 14:58

actjac wrote:Of all of the Northwest heavyweights Joe Hipp was the only one to fight for a world heavyweight title.

Don't forget Pete Rademacher.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 09 Mar 2007, 15:08

Ric wrote:
actjac wrote:Of all of the Northwest heavyweights Joe Hipp was the only one to fight for a world heavyweight title.
Don't forget Pete Rademacher.

Correct....see edit.
Rademacher was discussed earlier in the thread as being thown in the deep end too soon.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 10 Mar 2007, 12:59

Rankings of all-time NW heavyweights

1. Boone Kirkman
2. Pat McMurtry
3. Joe Hipp
4. Thad Spencer
5. Kenny Keene
6. Harry "Kid" Matthews
7. Pete Rademacher
8. Gordie Racette
9. Ibar Arrington
10. George Logan
11. Pat Duncan
12. Terry Hinke
13. Joe Kahut

The book is out on currently active Chauncey Welliver. Acting as his own manager he doesn't appear to want to test himself and fight the best as the others on the list did. He will be appraised in the future.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 10 Mar 2007, 13:12

Another name that was forgotten was Amos Lincoln.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 10 Mar 2007, 14:00

tegenm wrote:Another name that was forgotten was Amos Lincoln.

Thanks...."Big Train" of course. It appears that the all time NW list is a work in progress.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 10 Mar 2007, 14:02

Rankings of all-time NW heavyweights ....adding Amos Lincoln

1. Boone Kirkman
2. Pat McMurtry
3. Joe Hipp
4. Thad Spencer
5. Kenny Keene
6. Harry "Kid" Matthews
7. Pete Rademacher
8. Amos "Big Train" Lincoln
9. Gordie Racette
10. Ibar Arrington
11. George Logan
12. Pat Duncan
13. Terry Hinke
14. Joe Kahut
Consideration can be given to Frank Van Hee as well as Leo Lomski who fought the last five years of his career as a HW.

The book is out on currently active Chauncey Welliver. Acting as his own manager he doesn't appear to want to test himself and fight the best as the others on the list did. He will be appraised in the future.

Also noted is Young Dempsey who was managed by George Chemeres. He retired with a 16-1 record but never beat an opponent with a winning record.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 20 Mar 2007, 06:53

Does Wild Bill Boyd count?

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 20 Mar 2007, 12:10

Tiny Herman (or Tiny Jim Herman) out of Astoria should also be mentioned. He was probably top 15 or top 20 at his peak during the mid-1920s. Victor McLaglen also started out in Vancouver.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 20 Mar 2007, 13:35

tegenm wrote:Another name that was forgotten was Amos Lincoln.

I saw Amos "Big Train" Lincoln fight Sonny Liston in Baltimore.

After the live fight card, they showed the live Frazier-Bonavena title fight on a screen in the arena.

Lincoln was tall, Liston looked slow at this stage in his career.
After a few rounds Liston opened up with body punches and finished off Lincoln.

Earlier in the fight Lincoln showed a pretty good jab.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 20 Mar 2007, 13:36

bill.lockhart wrote:Rademacher was thrown to the wolves. Patterson & Folley to start his career.

Very true.

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