Blind Judges! Simpson v Mathews

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 13 Mar 2007, 19:04

Oh yeah, did anyone notice quite a few big security men running towards a certain direction looking look a fight broke out In the crowd? I noticed this while watching the show on Saturday.

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 14 Mar 2007, 06:08

Exile wrote:Has anyone connected with the fight made any comments regarding the ridiculous scoring?

I hear an annoucement is pending today from SN and the Board. Supervisor and Board official screwed up by forgetting to deduct the points. Made no difference to result, luckily for them. SN Kicked off about it at the venue when the scores were read out. Less than happy with Board and WBU over shoddy error.

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 14 Mar 2007, 06:11

Max Molyneux wrote:Oh yeah, did anyone notice quite a few big security men running towards a certain direction looking look a fight broke out In the crowd? I noticed this while watching the show on Saturday.

Handbags between two pissed Scousers. Fighting over a Handbag they probably nicked earlier from a car with no hubcaps..

Top Dog · Post by **Top Dog** » 14 Mar 2007, 06:50

Max Molyneux wrote:
Top Dog wrote:How on earth can the first round be a 10-10 rounds, even by WBU standards The first round was fairly even, and thats being kind to Derry, once he was down it was a defo 10-8 round. Man I cant believe some of the stuff that's on this thread, folk still trying to justify how Derry won The guy lost, simple as that. No class, no power, no chance 8) Simpson would feck him in a rematch, cause he now knows Derry aint all that he was cracked up to be. Derry=no power cocky bastard.
You justify Ando when he was getting a beating against Muttley thinking It was a close fight before the stoppage, so were even on Justifying.

Alot of Scots not all though justified Simpson's cut win over Morris, so you turning towards double standards there.

You'll see a better Derry Matthews, I can't justify dirty tatics and the judges score but 114- 111 would of been correct for Derry.

Firstly, Ando wasnt getting a beating from Mut, he was losing the fight before the stoppage win, but apart from when he got put down he wasnt getting murdered in there. Thats another fight that was a lot closer than the judges had it, but thats an argument for another day.
I dont think Ive ever posted about Simpsons win over Morris, but for the record I think it was stopped far too early, being the champ he should have been given a few rounds to try and do something. I've seen a lot worse cuts than that, think about Craig Docherty, he's had a couple of horror cuts in the first round and boxed on for the rest of the fight.

Looks like we'll need to agree to disagree about the scoring then, cause I think Simpson won, and so do the majority of folk

lurkyshaka · Post by **lurkyshaka** » 14 Mar 2007, 07:49

Something was clearly amiss with those scores. I haven't actually gone and worked them out but they seemed way, way off. I don't understand how how the judges could have come to those scores when weighing in that Matthews had to have lost 4 points.
Quite a few things bothered me about that fight to be honest, firstly Matthew could easily have been DQ'd imo. After the second point deduction he went and did the same thing again immediatly and then he rubbed his arm and elbow into Simpsons cut deliberately. If the fight wasn't in his hometown i think he might well have been thrown out or had more points taken off.
The other thing bothering me was the cut issue. That came from a butt didn't it, and yet they were talking as though if the fight was stopped Matthews would have been the winner, but surely they would have gone to the cards if the fight was halted because of the cut?? Or was the cut deemed to have been caused by a punch??(which would be ridiculous)
All in all Simpson has reason to feel hard done by but his standing has improved even in defeat.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Mar 2007, 08:56

lurkyshaka wrote:Something was clearly amiss with those scores. I haven't actually gone and worked them out but they seemed way, way off. I don't understand how how the judges could have come to those scores when weighing in that Matthews had to have lost 4 points.
Quite a few things bothered me about that fight to be honest, firstly Matthew could easily have been DQ'd imo. After the second point deduction he went and did the same thing again immediatly and then he rubbed his arm and elbow into Simpsons cut deliberately. If the fight wasn't in his hometown i think he might well have been thrown out or had more points taken off.
The other thing bothering me was the cut issue. That came from a butt didn't it, and yet they were talking as though if the fight was stopped Matthews would have been the winner, but surely they would have gone to the cards if the fight was halted because of the cut?? Or was the cut deemed to have been caused by a punch??(which would be ridiculous)
All in all Simpson has reason to feel hard done by but his standing has improved even in defeat.

Well it was 3 points he HAD to have lost - The KD is a point. It doesn't HAVE to be a 10-8 round.

Re The cut.... I do think ITV commentators should have made it clear what the WBU RULES (if they exist) state on this. In UK non title fights and British Title fights.... If the cut is caused by a clash of heads, intentional butt (but no DQ) or a punch and the fight is stopped - the non cut guy is the winner. Regardless of how it happend.

However, WBC fights in the UK follow the WBC rules - so scorecards (hence John Murray being a tad fortunate to still be undefeated as a fight he had got halted in the UK cause of damage, but it went to the cards).

ITV should have made clear what the WBU rules were on this... cause I thought like you, I thought this would go to the cards... but obviously, given the determination of team Simpson to continue - it wouldn't.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 14 Mar 2007, 09:34

boxingchat wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Oh yeah, did anyone notice quite a few big security men running towards a certain direction looking look a fight broke out In the crowd? I noticed this while watching the show on Saturday.

Handbags between two pissed Scousers. Fighting over a Handbag they probably nicked earlier from a car with no hubcaps..

Nicking hupcaps Is so 80's.

states · Post by **states** » 14 Mar 2007, 10:08

boxingchat wrote:
Exile wrote:Has anyone connected with the fight made any comments regarding the ridiculous scoring?

I hear an annoucement is pending today from SN and the Board. Supervisor and Board official screwed up by forgetting to deduct the points. Made no difference to result, luckily for them. SN Kicked off about it at the venue when the scores were read out. Less than happy with Board and WBU over shoddy error.

Well that would make sense.

states · Post by **states** » 14 Mar 2007, 12:30

Hmm. Couple of points Terence. A point deduction clearly is a punishment, because 9-9 is worse than 10-9, no? And the round isn't scored 9-9, it's scored 10-9 and then the point is taken off, so it's still scored on the 10 point must rule.

What you're proposing means a 2 point deduction rather than one.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 14 Mar 2007, 12:35

The WBU don't seem to have a sub-section for getting injured due to your opponent being a dirty little...

7. When an injury is produced by a fair blow and because of the severity of the injury the contestant cannot continue, the injured boxer shall be declared the loser, the verdict recorded RSC and the reason.
8. If a boxer injures himself, such as a broken bone or sprain or is unable to continue for any other self sustained physical reason, he shall lose by RETIREMENT.

http://www.wbu.cc/wbu_rules.asp

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Mar 2007, 15:49

jomothepure wrote:The WBU don't seem to have a sub-section for getting injured due to your opponent being a dirty little...

7. When an injury is produced by a fair blow and because of the severity of the injury the contestant cannot continue, the injured boxer shall be declared the loser, the verdict recorded RSC and the reason.
8. If a boxer injures himself, such as a broken bone or sprain or is unable to continue for any other self sustained physical reason, he shall lose by RETIREMENT.

http://www.wbu.cc/wbu_rules.asp

Does any of the governing bodies have a different rule for accidental and non-accidental fouls.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 14 Mar 2007, 15:57

How can the judges "forget to take a point away"?? Flip me if their memories are that bad they can't remember a point deduction at the end of a round then they shouldn't be friggin judging.

This fiasco may well bring the credibility of the WBU into question

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 14 Mar 2007, 16:01

WBC

Cuts. In the event of a cut, the referee shall consult with the ring doctor to determine if the bout should continue.

The ring doctor will hand the WBC red card before the referee to indicate danger to the boxer´s health and request the fight to be stopped. The referee must consider the doctor´s opinion regarding the risks to the boxer´s integrity.

However, only the referee is authorized to stop the bout, and will have the final decision.

a) Intentional head butt. When a cut is caused by an intentional head butt, and the cut boxer is unable to continue, the offending boxer will lose by disqualification. If the cut boxer is able to continue, the butting boxer will be penalized two (2) points.

b) Unintentional head butt. When a boxer is cut due to an unintentional head butt, as per the discretion of the referee, the uncut boxer will receive a one-(1) point deduction. This rule does not apply in the USA.

If the cut occurs before the bell for the start of the fifth (5th) round and the cut boxer is unable to continue, the bout will be declared a technical draw.

If the cut occurs or the cut is increased by legal punches after the bell for the start of the fifth (5th) round, and the fight is stopped by the referee, the boxer who is ahead on the judge´s scorecards, including the round in which the bout is stopped, will be declared the winner by technical decision. The round in which the contest is stopped will be scored, even if it is a partial round.

WBA
http://www.wbaonline.com/legal/LegalSta ... ERNING.PDF

IBF
http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userfile ... 202006.pdf

states · Post by **states** » 14 Mar 2007, 16:53

But if you score it 10-10 and then take the point off, you're taking away the point, but also giving the guy you felt lost the round 10 points, rather than 9. Hence it becomes a 2 point penalty.

states · Post by **states** » 14 Mar 2007, 19:20

OK, so you're saying forget point deductions, if the referee deems that you've committed an offence (or per perhaps one offence too many would be more precise), then your opponent automatically wins that round. What about knockdowns? Say fighter A scores 2 knockdowns of fighter B in a round, but then strays low once too often. Does fighter B automatically win the round 10-9?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 14 Mar 2007, 20:41

Posted In wrong thread,

pm · Post by pm » 15 Mar 2007, 04:14

i always thought that for point deductions, the round was scored as normal and the point wasn't taken off until the final total has been added up.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 15 Mar 2007, 10:22

steve689 wrote: This fiasco may well bring the credibility of the WBU into question

Excellent!

salaco · Post by **salaco** » 15 Mar 2007, 12:00

In all fairness, I don't think simpson won the fight although I would like to say he did - I'm not going to fiddle around with the points errors and permutations, but I think a draw with the deductions would've felt like a fair result. Matthews was certainly dirty enough throughout although I've seen worse, but simpson's moments were mostly outweighed by matthews activity and his jab which was sporadically effective. However, its clear that man about merseyside won no fans regardless of ITV's puff piece beforehand - in fact, I look forward to see him KTFO and twitching on the canvas

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 16 Mar 2007, 06:00

boxingchat wrote:
Exile wrote:Has anyone connected with the fight made any comments regarding the ridiculous scoring?

I hear an annoucement is pending today from SN and the Board. Supervisor and Board official screwed up by forgetting to deduct the points. Made no difference to result, luckily for them. SN Kicked off about it at the venue when the scores were read out. Less than happy with Board and WBU over shoddy error.

No word from the Bofc, SN ro the WBU thus far. :(