Are we being presumptious of a Marquez win?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 15 Mar 2007, 13:59

Opinion on the british forum seems to favour JMM, perhaps because he's shown better handspeed and combos of recent...But I was thinking, even though Barrera's been a bit low key, his boxing has been spot on technically...

Also, there is a very important matter - Marquez' right eye. In his last three fights his eye has been battered by left hands. Chris John jabbed it shut, Terdsak Jandaeng hammered it shut w shouthpaw straight lefts, Jimrex Jaca hit him with same punch, & butted it bloody.

Barrera's jab is so quick and you just don't see it coming. Anyone think MAB is going to aggravate those old JMM injuries, & jab him into a TKO defeat? Or might he injure Marquez, and inspire JMM into a big rally that KOs MAB?

Anyone think the eye could be a major factor?

Mukel · Post by **Mukel** » 15 Mar 2007, 14:15

I give MAB a good chance of winning, he does seem to get himself up
for the big fights, but I dont know, he looked poor against Juarez,
but marquez hasnt looked special himself recentley, its a 50/50 fight in my opinion.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 15 Mar 2007, 14:25

Its 50:50, 3 years ago I think it would have been 60:40 Barrera. I don't think Marquez is faster than Marco... my worry is (as a Barrera fan) is his ability to fight for 3 minutes rounds for 12 rounds these days (against Morales it was 1 round on, 1 round off) plus the power of Marquez (will he damage Barrera's nose).

I think Barrera is slicker and faster personally.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 15 Mar 2007, 14:25

I am tipping Marquez but with a strong degree of caution, it's by all accounts a 50/50 fight.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 15 Mar 2007, 15:54

as Barrera has got more technical, Marquez has got a bit looser and more aggressive than he used to be. i think its a good fight, but i think MAB has enough to win.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Mar 2007, 04:12

I think Barrera REALLY frustrates him overt he first 4 or 5 rounds. He's definitely the more compact puncher and when he lets rip is still hurtful. I can see MAB shutting that vulnerable Marquez right eye - which was hurt by John, Jandaeng & Jaca - and Marquez putting in a big rally. If Marquez finds the range for his combos, which are quite unorthdox and imaginative, he finishes Barrera with a big left uppercut late on.

It'll be like Barrera-Morales 3. Not all out war. But rather classy, intense championship boxing that can explode at any moment.

Ally-M1 · Post by **Ally-M1** » 16 Mar 2007, 04:47

I really think it'll be a 50/50 - wouldn't like to pick a winner on this one...

Both of them have great attributes...

I wouldn't be suprised though if MAB upset the applecart a bit but JMM seems to be the betting favourite.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 16 Mar 2007, 05:11

I wouldn't say that we're being presupmtious of a victory for Marquez. I don't think anyone is writing, or is willing to write, Barrera off. But at the same time Marquez is much fresher, and both seem very evenly matched aside from that.

Like Stu, I'm not sure that Barrera has enough left to fight at a pace anymore. That alone would be enough for me to side against him in a fight that's this close to call, but with the added aggression shown recently by Marquez, I lean toward him.

You may be right about the eye though Maussa. Barrera is clever enough, and accurate enough to try and make a weakness like that a factor in the fight. I'm not sure it'll be a fight ending factor, but it might well get to the stage where it hampers Marquez somewhat.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Mar 2007, 07:27

Incidently, not that it will make a major difference - is this for the WBO Feather title or the WBC Super Feather title.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Mar 2007, 07:30

stujones wrote:Incidently, not that it will make a major difference - is this for the WBO Feather title or the WBC Super Feather title.

WBC

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Mar 2007, 11:00

Toney-McCallum might be a good comparison. With Marquez & Barrera being master boxers who will have to work very hard to get - and maintain - the upper hand. Seems to me like an intense chess match with ebbs, flows and occasional explosions.

Difference in this fight, neither have the kind of "undentable" chins of Toney & McCallum.

Interestingly, Marquez has not fared well in fights with fellow counter punchers & back foot fighters. He lost to John and Norwood - or as I prefer it, "failed to get the decision" in fights he deserved.

Marquez may be a victim of expectations. If he fails to put in a less than riveting effort, he possibly gets misunderstood/punished on the scorecards for not using all that speed & power.

I think Barrera is going to mangle Marquez's right eye. To the point that JMM can't see the jabs coming. Hard enough to see MAB's jab as it's so seamless and quick. But somewhere down the line JMM will break through. I think he'll manage to let rip late. If MAB can survive it, I can see Baby face winning.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Mar 2007, 11:03

Not sure what Pac has in mind. Seems he settled for Arum, turned down that Chi in China fight for some unbeaten guy called Solis, in Texas. You hear the regular, "Pac Man collapsed in hospital", and "Pac in politics", could be that he's taking his next foe lightly.

Interestingly, while it will be hard to put Pac in with GBP fighters, Arum has an elite fighter in Humberto Soto. He's matched Soto with Bobby Pac. After Soto crucifies him, it creates the natural rivalry with Pac Manny.

I actually think Soto is by far the hardest fight for Pac.

lurkyshaka · Post by **lurkyshaka** » 17 Mar 2007, 10:26

Its strange really but opinion on most boards seems to favour Marquez something like 60/40.

However the bookies still have Barrera the favourite and i do think that people are maybe 'again' rushing to write Barrera off. He has chosen to fight in a more circumspect manner in recent fights and people have assumed that its because he has had to do that due to him being in decline. I myself think that Barrera while obviously in the evening of his career still has plenty of gas left in the tank and if its needed he will be able to dig down and go to war again. Imo he's just been fighting smart by not warring in recent fights if he didn't have to.
I think he'll need to dig down in this fight, in fact im sure he will. He won't be able to outbox Marquez like he was able to control Juarez and Peden and will instead be forced to go to war. I think we'll see a tremendous fight, high class boxing ability laced with TNT from both men.

I think it'll be close, possibly split but i think that when the dust has settled it'll be Barrera getting his hand raised.....though the draw at 20/1 might not be a bad outside bet.

For anyone interested here is a link to a 'crossfire article'(where two writers go head to head in picking a fight winner) i've written on this fight for another site.

http://www.the13thround.com/ttround/ite ... ecordID=20

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Mar 2007, 11:18

Terence wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:Toney-McCallum might be a good comparison. With Marquez & Barrera being master boxers who will have to work very hard to get - and maintain - the upper hand. Seems to me like an intense chess match with ebbs, flows and occasional explosions.

Difference in this fight, neither have the kind of "undentable" chins of Toney & McCallum.

Interestingly, Marquez has not fared well in fights with fellow counter punchers & back foot fighters. He lost to John and Norwood - or as I prefer it, "failed to get the decision" in fights he deserved.

Marquez may be a victim of expectations. If he fails to put in a less than riveting effort, he possibly gets misunderstood/punished on the scorecards for not using all that speed & power.

I think Barrera is going to mangle Marquez's right eye. To the point that JMM can't see the jabs coming. Hard enough to see MAB's jab as it's so seamless and quick. But somewhere down the line JMM will break through. I think he'll manage to let rip late. If MAB can survive it, I can see Baby face winning.
I love Toney-McCallum and this could be as nip and tuck, I hope it is as good.

I wanted to do a prediction for the US site but could not come down with any conviction on either side, plus my picks are usually crap, so I went back over MAB's career. His P4P ranking dips and moves but his period of success is amazing.

So I sat on the fence, lauded both and heaped praise on Marco in case it is the end of his career

http://www.BS.com/?m=show&id=7800

Basically comparing him to Jones and the guys who took centre-stage, including Hamed briefly, in Marco's time in the top-level.

Who would you go for if you had money on it?

Good article. It's amazing when you think that Barrera got hammered by Junior Jones, got patronised by Naz ("he can't avoid right hands") & has the look of a clinically depressed person after losing a close rematch to Jones...that he can just keep on making the comebacks and adjusting his style, an dkeep on headlining.

I'd pick Marquez. Because he's hungrier. He just looks like he wants it more. He has to win it and his cmbos can be nasty. But then again, Marquez has faltered on big stages and it normally happens vs a counter puncher.

I go for Marquez, but it's not a confident pick.

I like this match, the idea of 2 skill merchants going at it, both of whom have a lot at stake. i.e. big money Pac fight. Neither can win it the easy way. Thank you Manny Pac, for not being available.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 17 Mar 2007, 11:28

Mexican craftsman Juan Manuel Marquez moves up in weight and challenges Mexican great Marco Antonio Barrera for the WBC super-featherweight title tonight.
Venue is the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas.
Marquez, the WBO featherweight champion, succeeded Scott Harrison in December, when the troubled Scot pulled out of a defence against Nicky Cook in London citing weight problems. "The guy is starving," said Steve Collins of Harrison's increasingly desolate look at weigh-ins. The Cook title fight would have been his 18th successive at featherweight (10 WBO).
Incidentally, Eliot Taylor, manager of the Lomond Park Hotel in Balloch where Harrison was arrested last year, said he had been well-behaved. "He was in the club just drinking. Then police came up to him and searched him, put cuffs on him and took him away. Apparently someone had phoned complaining about him." The fighter has said in the past he is a victim of jealousy in Scotland, a country once memorably described by former world lightweight champion Ken Buchanan as "The biggest village in the world."
So to Marquez, elder brother of WBC super-bantamweight champion Rafael, who endured problems of his own last year when photos published on boxing websites showed him simulating sex with other men. It was 'camp' (to say the least) but he had too much for Thailand's Terdsak Jandaeng and Filipino Jimrex Jaca in his last two fights, both of whom he picked apart and stopped.
But a long, hard fight looks on the cards tonight, given Barrera has held the WBC title since 2004 and needs big challenges at this stage of his 68-fight career. He struggled against unheralded Rocky Juarez last year but dominated the crunch rematch and, at 33, is the same age as Marquez.
It's hardly young against old.
Much is made of the Manny Pacquiao factor going into this, the Filipino legend who outclassed Barrera in 11 rounds in San Antonio in 2003 but was held to a 12-round draw by Marquez in a Las Vegas classic a year later. Styles make fights, however. Even Marquez, a former WBA and IBF featherweight champion, would have to concede he is up against a master tonight. The challenger is known for a smooth, hurtful counterpunching style but Barrera has shown the same - and more - in his glorious past.
Ultimately, Marquez jumps up in weight and looks to win a huge fight straight off. He also has a history of busting up. It's a big ask.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Mar 2007, 11:33

Marquez has the WBO title? I thought they didn't upgrade him from WBO interim, even after the Harrison debacle.

Anyways, look for Chris John to take over 126. Beginning with a possible WBA defense v Rocky Juarez on the DLH-Mayweather undercard!

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 17 Mar 2007, 17:21

I hope Barrera wins and I don't see any reason to write him off yet. He boxed beautifully last time out.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 18 Mar 2007, 07:09

Good fight.

I had it 115-112 for Marquez.

vargas · Post by **vargas** » 18 Mar 2007, 07:33

I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch assuming that Marquez can't get another fight with Pacquiao. That 118-109 card was an absolute disgrace, I had it 116-113 for Marquez.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Mar 2007, 07:59

I had Marquez by at least 3. He was landing way snappier punches. I thought Marquez had totally taken over...before that knockdown. What a stunning fight - skill & intensity. The right man won - roll on September 16 rematch.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 18 Mar 2007, 09:25

No need for a rematch, it was pretty conclusive - I see the same result only more emphatic.

Like morales, Barrera would be wise to avoid the rematch and re-focus on someone else.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Mar 2007, 09:33

Like many great fights, it has a point of contention. Mouthpiece spitting (Corrales-Castillo 1), weight controversy (R Lopez-R Alvarez 2), an even round that decides the fight (MAB-Morales 3), a multi knockdown round that a judge is unsure how to score (JMM-Pac).

This time being an extra point which some feel MAB should've got. But I think JMM deserves a lot of credit for surviving and winning. It's clear a lot of ppl are trying to bend it for Barrera. Hitting someone while down is not clever & Barrera could've been DQ'd if he'd done any more damage.

I know it's an IF, but IF JMM didn't get caught in round 7 he might well have broken down Barrera into a stoppage.

I don't see anything wrong with Marquez by about 3 or 4.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:02

Barrera showed he can fight OLD. No mistake his legs have gone, his stamina has gone. He had a fantastic defense (which faltered at times R7) Marquez is also looking older and worse than the Pacman fight (had Marquez winning that by 1-3 points)

I had Barrera winning:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 totals
MAB 10 10 10 9 9 10 8 10 10 9 9 10 114
JMM 9 9 9 10 10 9 8 9 9 10 10 9 111

If I change the round 7 to a 10-8 Marquez round I still have it 114-113 Barrera, on thinking about it Marquez whipped Barrera in that 1, so even if barrera hadn't been docked a point it would be 9-9, so with the point deduction it should be 9-8. You can score a round 10-8 withotu a kd cant you - so why do you need the ref to call the kd if he isnt doing his job?

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:03

Maussa I'd be interested in how you score it on second viewing.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:04

viciousmaussa wrote: I know it's an IF, but IF JMM didn't get caught in round 7 he might well have broken down Barrera into a stoppage..

I thought we were witnessing the end of Barreras career until the kd.