khaosai galaxy
Probably the best Asian fighter ever.
Greatest Asain fighters?
My Top 10 Asian Fighters Ever
A nice forum you guys have here; as someone who grew up in Asia, as well as watched probably several thousand Asian fights (including key fights of virtually every big name Asian fighter in the last 30 or so years), I think I can contribute something here.
Here's my top 10 Asian fighters ever:
1. Fighting Harada (legitimately beat Jofre twice; should have been the only fighter to ever win flyweight, bantamweight & featherweight titles had it not been for the infamous robbery against Famechon, a fight I scored 148-136)
2. Jung-Koo Chang (the best pure talent to ever come out of Asia; a boxing prodigy & genius who could have accomplished even more had he not wasted his career away with booze and women; still, he was almost untouchable in his prime, thoroughly dominating some of the greatest junior flyweights & flyweights of the last two decades in Zapata, Chitalada & Torres)
3. Pancho Villa (beat Wilde, the greatest flyweight ever; but the rest of his record is spotty)
4. Masao Ohba (often compared to Sanchez because of his untimely death at 23; some in Japan think he would have been better than Harada had he lieved)
5. Gabriel Elorde (beat Saddler & stretched Carlos Ortiz to the max)
6. Chan-Hee Park (similar to Chang in terms of wasting away his vast talent in booze & women; still beat the still-great Canto & obliterated Guty Espadas; textbook boxing skills & phenomenal speed)
7. Sung-Kil Moon (maybe the biggest puncher to ever come out of Asia, knocknamed "hands of stone"; regularly knocked out welterweights in sparring)
8. Jiro Watanabe (talented-wise perhaps the greatest junior bantamweight among the trio of Watanabe, Moon & Galaxy, but his ducking of Galaxy makes you wonder what could have been?)
9. Pone Kingpetch (vastly over-rated flyweight who benefited from facing an aging Perez & two scandalous gifts against Harada & Ebihara in the return bouts [after he was starched in the 1st bouts, in the case of v. Ebihara, literally in the 1st])
10. Kaosai Galaxy (the most over-rated Asian fighter of all-time, fought absolutely no one in the most talent-rich era of the divison & still had to struggle against the garbage at times)
Here's my top 10 Asian fighters ever:
1. Fighting Harada (legitimately beat Jofre twice; should have been the only fighter to ever win flyweight, bantamweight & featherweight titles had it not been for the infamous robbery against Famechon, a fight I scored 148-136)
2. Jung-Koo Chang (the best pure talent to ever come out of Asia; a boxing prodigy & genius who could have accomplished even more had he not wasted his career away with booze and women; still, he was almost untouchable in his prime, thoroughly dominating some of the greatest junior flyweights & flyweights of the last two decades in Zapata, Chitalada & Torres)
3. Pancho Villa (beat Wilde, the greatest flyweight ever; but the rest of his record is spotty)
4. Masao Ohba (often compared to Sanchez because of his untimely death at 23; some in Japan think he would have been better than Harada had he lieved)
5. Gabriel Elorde (beat Saddler & stretched Carlos Ortiz to the max)
6. Chan-Hee Park (similar to Chang in terms of wasting away his vast talent in booze & women; still beat the still-great Canto & obliterated Guty Espadas; textbook boxing skills & phenomenal speed)
7. Sung-Kil Moon (maybe the biggest puncher to ever come out of Asia, knocknamed "hands of stone"; regularly knocked out welterweights in sparring)
8. Jiro Watanabe (talented-wise perhaps the greatest junior bantamweight among the trio of Watanabe, Moon & Galaxy, but his ducking of Galaxy makes you wonder what could have been?)
9. Pone Kingpetch (vastly over-rated flyweight who benefited from facing an aging Perez & two scandalous gifts against Harada & Ebihara in the return bouts [after he was starched in the 1st bouts, in the case of v. Ebihara, literally in the 1st])
10. Kaosai Galaxy (the most over-rated Asian fighter of all-time, fought absolutely no one in the most talent-rich era of the divison & still had to struggle against the garbage at times)
Last edited by joonie73 on 18 Sep 2003, 19:35, edited 3 times in total.
Khaokar v. Khaosai
There is an argument to be had that Khaokar was actually better than Khaosai. The one huge argument against Khaosai was the fact that he faced one of the worst competition among any long-reigning titlist, in spite of the fact that he reigned during the golden years of the junior bantamweights that included Moon, Watanabe, Roman, Konadu & Laciar.TonyJ wrote:khaokor was good but was not as great as his brother.
Luisito Espinoza was a pretty good fighter in his day as well.
Khaokar, on the other hand, spanked Moon in Thailand in the return match and was arguably on his way to winning when the referee conveniently stopped the fight on cuts in their original fight.
Kaosai Galaxy is arguably the most over-rated Asian boxer EVER.
The Chang that fought Chitalada was an ancient, washed-up Chang that came back from retirement because he had no money. In their original fight, Chang pretty much shut Chitalada out, in spite of the fact that he had a horrific cut through butting & was blind in one eye for the 2nd half of the fight. Chang is, in terms of pure talent, the most gifted Asian fighter ever.gensu3k1 wrote:Veeraphol Sahaprom belongs among the greatest asian fighters of all time, and Pongsaklek Wongjongkam will probably achieve greatness if he hasn't already.
All I've seen of Chitalada and Chang is their rematch, and I was very underwhelmed. It reminded me of Forrest-Mosley II, and I mean that in the worst possible way.
I haven't seen Myung Woo Yuh yet, but his credentials speak for themselves.
On the other hand, Myung-Woo Yuh is, along with Galaxy, the most over-rated Asian fighter ever.
What his "credentials speak" of are the fact that, much like Galaxy, he never faced any of the junior flyweight greats in the golden era for junior flyweights. He could have fought Chang, Gonzalez, Carbajal & Torres & of course fought none of them.
More damagingly still, he was awarded at least half a dozen hometown gifts among his many defenses.
Moon was a decorated amateur boxer; the only thing he never won was an Olympic Gold. Scary to think that his prime years were spent as an amateur.Jeffsboxing wrote:It's so fun talking asian fighters. About Moon sun kil here's his record, just follow the link: http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=003187
He hels super flyweight title from 1988 - 1993. Enough credits for "Asian greats"
Korean fighters also remind me to Duk ko kim, KO'd and finally died after fighting "Boom boom" Mancini.
Jeff
Unbelievable power (in my opinion superior power than Galaxy), very good chin, a true crow-pleaser. His fights with Konadu and Galaxy were wars.
But his is a sad case though. Because of his face-first slugger style, he now has a serious brain damage (in fact he was suffering from it the last few years of his career).
But on the other hand, Galaxy may have been an overnight champion if he fought anyone with a pulse. He had slow hands, slow foot, unbelievably easy to hit (one good friend and an even more informed boxing observer calls his defense "sweese cheese"), and shaky chin. And he may not even been the biggest puncher at his weight during his era (I think Moon hit harder).jsc1973 wrote:Galaxy would have been the champion a lot sooner if the 115-pound champs of that time hadn't ducked him for two years. He didn't become champion until Watanabe decided to vacate the WBA title and fight for the WBC version, which allowed Galaxy to fight for and win the WBA crown himself.Broncano wrote:A few months after the Watanabe fight Luis Ibañez was flown again to the Far East and faced Khaosai Galaxy in Bangkok. This is when Galaxy had less than 20 fights and almost 2 years before he became champion.
Ellyas Pical, who was the IBF champ at 115 for most of Galaxy's reign, was the only reigning champ who ever had the balls to get in the ring with Galaxy. He went 14 rounds before Khaosai got him, then won the IBF title back eight months later and held it until 1990. I say anyone who could go 14 rounds with Khaosai Galaxy in 1987 must have been damn good himself.
Watanabe was a Shotokan karate competitor who converted to boxing later in his life, though not as late as one poster here stated. I have the same objection that I have against Galaxy: his opposition was undistingushed & he clearly ducked Galaxy (whom I think he would have ripped apart). But I rank him higher because he seemed to me clearly the better fighter--lesser puncher but light years ahead in every other aspects of boxing.TonyJ wrote:Nice story, whats your take on Watanabe?
The Most Misleading Records in Boxing History
For some perspective:
One knowledgeable poster in another forum wrote that Khaosai Galaxy had "one of the most misleading records in boxing history," because of the fact that, while he had a seemingly spectacular record (esp. KO record & consecutive title defense record), he fought nobody & still managed to receive gift decisions. I have also been vocal in my criticism of Galaxy & was wondering if we can come up with other fighters who look great in terms of record but are found wanting upon a more exhaustive examination because their records are "misleading."
As the example of Galaxy shows, two common ways that a great paper record can be misleading are: 1. weakness of opposition; 2. an uncommon number of gift decisions, esp. at home. In particular, when a fighter has an alarming number of gifts on his ledger, esp. in his key fights, it poses a serious problem historically for the boxing historian or other enthusiasts who have not watched the fighter in question in action often. I recognize even the greatest of the fighters are bound to receive a gifts here & there (e.g. perhaps Robinson v. Servo & perhaps some of his wins against Jake), but what about those cases where all of the fighter's quality wins were gifts? As I have said many times before (& as Saldivar, a rare contributor here and a more frequent contributor at other boards I post, has written a wonderfully illuminating post on it), this is a huge problem when evaluating Asian fighters. And since that is an area where I am familiar with, I will throw in some prominent Asian names.
Anyways, without further ado, here are a few that I came up with. All of the fighters below are fighters whom many consider "great" & among the top 10 fighters of their respective weights; obviously I don't agree with that assessment (or else I wouldn't call their records "misleading").
I am listing the fighter's record 1st and then title fight record in parenthesis:
Khaosai Galaxy: 47-1 (20-0)
Much has been said by others on this pick so I won't add much more except to note that Galaxy's weak opposition cannot be attributed to the weakness of his era. In fact, Galaxy's reign paralleled the reigns of the other top 4 junior bantamweights in history in Jiro Watanabe, Sung-Kil Moon & Gilberto Roman. It defies belief that Galaxy could not get into the ring with even just one of these guys.
Myung-Woo Yuh: 38-1 (20-1)
Yuh is the king of the hometown gifts. Asia is notorious for having the cards stacked against the foreign challenger & even true greats like Chang received a gift or two at home. But the number of gifts that Yuh received at home is simply astonishing. I have not seen all of his title fights but I count at least 6: Olivio, 2 with De Jesus, 2 with Gamez & Salazar. This is almost sickening. So if Yuh's fights were judged fairly, he could be at best something like 32-7, not bad but hardly an all-timer. As is, unfortunately, Yuh is considered in some quarters as even the greatest light flyweight ever, greater than Chang, Zapata, Gonzalez & Carbajal. I would also add that Yuh also fought in a talent-rich junior flyweight era & could've faced Chang, Gonzalez, Carbajal & Torres, none of whom, of course, he ended up facing. So in Yuh you got a fighter who struggled mightily against B opposition. A very ordinary fighter by a world titlist standard.
Sot Chitalada: 25-4-1 (11-4-1)
I've gone down this route before so won't add too much. But again, if his "draw" & "wins" against Bernal I, Chang II & Yong-Kang Kim II, three very controversial results of where the consensus was that Chitalada's opponents were jobbed, were correctly decided, then what do you have for his legacy? His championship record could be 9-7-1, a bit reminiscent of Yuh. His best win would be over a faded Magri, who wasn't much to begin with, to quote one very informed English poster. And against either the greats or near-greats in Chang & Kittikasem, he'd be 0-4.
Pone Kingpetch: 28-9 (6-3).
Pone was the beneficiary of two very high profile gifts v. Harada II & Ebihara II. Now, that's just 2 gifts & pale v. the number of gifts that Yuh, Chitalada or Oguma received. But consider what happens to Kingpetch's legacy if those fights were decided properly. His title fight record would be 4-5. His record v. greats or near-greats (Perez, Harada, Ebihara & Burruni) would be decidedly unflattering 2-5. And 2 of those victories would be against a very faded, foissilized Perez. Top 10 flyweight ever?
One knowledgeable poster in another forum wrote that Khaosai Galaxy had "one of the most misleading records in boxing history," because of the fact that, while he had a seemingly spectacular record (esp. KO record & consecutive title defense record), he fought nobody & still managed to receive gift decisions. I have also been vocal in my criticism of Galaxy & was wondering if we can come up with other fighters who look great in terms of record but are found wanting upon a more exhaustive examination because their records are "misleading."
As the example of Galaxy shows, two common ways that a great paper record can be misleading are: 1. weakness of opposition; 2. an uncommon number of gift decisions, esp. at home. In particular, when a fighter has an alarming number of gifts on his ledger, esp. in his key fights, it poses a serious problem historically for the boxing historian or other enthusiasts who have not watched the fighter in question in action often. I recognize even the greatest of the fighters are bound to receive a gifts here & there (e.g. perhaps Robinson v. Servo & perhaps some of his wins against Jake), but what about those cases where all of the fighter's quality wins were gifts? As I have said many times before (& as Saldivar, a rare contributor here and a more frequent contributor at other boards I post, has written a wonderfully illuminating post on it), this is a huge problem when evaluating Asian fighters. And since that is an area where I am familiar with, I will throw in some prominent Asian names.
Anyways, without further ado, here are a few that I came up with. All of the fighters below are fighters whom many consider "great" & among the top 10 fighters of their respective weights; obviously I don't agree with that assessment (or else I wouldn't call their records "misleading").
I am listing the fighter's record 1st and then title fight record in parenthesis:
Khaosai Galaxy: 47-1 (20-0)
Much has been said by others on this pick so I won't add much more except to note that Galaxy's weak opposition cannot be attributed to the weakness of his era. In fact, Galaxy's reign paralleled the reigns of the other top 4 junior bantamweights in history in Jiro Watanabe, Sung-Kil Moon & Gilberto Roman. It defies belief that Galaxy could not get into the ring with even just one of these guys.
Myung-Woo Yuh: 38-1 (20-1)
Yuh is the king of the hometown gifts. Asia is notorious for having the cards stacked against the foreign challenger & even true greats like Chang received a gift or two at home. But the number of gifts that Yuh received at home is simply astonishing. I have not seen all of his title fights but I count at least 6: Olivio, 2 with De Jesus, 2 with Gamez & Salazar. This is almost sickening. So if Yuh's fights were judged fairly, he could be at best something like 32-7, not bad but hardly an all-timer. As is, unfortunately, Yuh is considered in some quarters as even the greatest light flyweight ever, greater than Chang, Zapata, Gonzalez & Carbajal. I would also add that Yuh also fought in a talent-rich junior flyweight era & could've faced Chang, Gonzalez, Carbajal & Torres, none of whom, of course, he ended up facing. So in Yuh you got a fighter who struggled mightily against B opposition. A very ordinary fighter by a world titlist standard.
Sot Chitalada: 25-4-1 (11-4-1)
I've gone down this route before so won't add too much. But again, if his "draw" & "wins" against Bernal I, Chang II & Yong-Kang Kim II, three very controversial results of where the consensus was that Chitalada's opponents were jobbed, were correctly decided, then what do you have for his legacy? His championship record could be 9-7-1, a bit reminiscent of Yuh. His best win would be over a faded Magri, who wasn't much to begin with, to quote one very informed English poster. And against either the greats or near-greats in Chang & Kittikasem, he'd be 0-4.
Pone Kingpetch: 28-9 (6-3).
Pone was the beneficiary of two very high profile gifts v. Harada II & Ebihara II. Now, that's just 2 gifts & pale v. the number of gifts that Yuh, Chitalada or Oguma received. But consider what happens to Kingpetch's legacy if those fights were decided properly. His title fight record would be 4-5. His record v. greats or near-greats (Perez, Harada, Ebihara & Burruni) would be decidedly unflattering 2-5. And 2 of those victories would be against a very faded, foissilized Perez. Top 10 flyweight ever?
Great Asian Boxers
I nominate Cerferino Garcia one the best welterweights in the 30's and 40's at a time when not too many fighters came from te Phillipine Islands
Joonie i agree that Galaxy did not fight the best competion thier was in his time, Iv'e seen him fight several times and i beleive that if he would have stepped up and fought the better opposition at that time i feel he would have been a seriouse threat to anyone because of his raw power and determination so i woudn't count him out against any top 115 pounder of his time.
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gensu3k1
- Heavyweight
Re: The Most Misleading Records in Boxing History
"Khaosai Galaxy: 47-1 (20-0)
Much has been said by others on this pick so I won't add much more except to note that Galaxy's weak opposition cannot be attributed to the weakness of his era. In fact, Galaxy's reign paralleled the reigns of the other top 4 junior bantamweights in history in Jiro Watanabe, Sung-Kil Moon & Gilberto Roman. It defies belief that Galaxy could not get into the ring with even just one of these guys. "
IIRC, Watanabe dumped a belt in order to avoid fighting Galaxy. Khaosai would have KO'd Roman and Moon. Galaxy's level of opposition is underrated. Ellyas Pical was a two-time IBF champ, and Galaxy was the only man to KO him. Edgar Monserrat got blown out in two by Galaxy but would go on to go the distance with Roman, losing by split decision. Israel Contreras would go on to win the WBA bantamweight title with a KO over Luisito Espinosa. David Griman looks like a pretty good fighter from his record.
AFAIK, this claim of Galaxy receiving gift decisions is wholly unsubstantiated. Only three of his title defenses went the distance, and I haven't heard anyone say that he lost any of them.
Much has been said by others on this pick so I won't add much more except to note that Galaxy's weak opposition cannot be attributed to the weakness of his era. In fact, Galaxy's reign paralleled the reigns of the other top 4 junior bantamweights in history in Jiro Watanabe, Sung-Kil Moon & Gilberto Roman. It defies belief that Galaxy could not get into the ring with even just one of these guys. "
IIRC, Watanabe dumped a belt in order to avoid fighting Galaxy. Khaosai would have KO'd Roman and Moon. Galaxy's level of opposition is underrated. Ellyas Pical was a two-time IBF champ, and Galaxy was the only man to KO him. Edgar Monserrat got blown out in two by Galaxy but would go on to go the distance with Roman, losing by split decision. Israel Contreras would go on to win the WBA bantamweight title with a KO over Luisito Espinosa. David Griman looks like a pretty good fighter from his record.
AFAIK, this claim of Galaxy receiving gift decisions is wholly unsubstantiated. Only three of his title defenses went the distance, and I haven't heard anyone say that he lost any of them.
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gensu3k1
- Heavyweight
"But on the other hand, Galaxy may have been an overnight champion if he fought anyone with a pulse. He had slow hands, slow foot, unbelievably easy to hit (one good friend and an even more informed boxing observer calls his defense "sweese cheese"), and shaky chin. And he may not even been the biggest puncher at his weight during his era (I think Moon hit harder)."
Moon's defense was every bit as bad as Galaxy's. And as far as one-punch power goes, I think Galaxy hit harder. Moon mostly wore people down with accumulated punishment. Galaxy could knock you out at any moment.
Moon's defense was every bit as bad as Galaxy's. And as far as one-punch power goes, I think Galaxy hit harder. Moon mostly wore people down with accumulated punishment. Galaxy could knock you out at any moment.
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gensu3k1
- Heavyweight
"Unbelievable power (in my opinion superior power than Galaxy), very good chin, a true crow-pleaser. His fights with Konadu and Galaxy were wars."
Moon's chin was very good, but Khaosai's was shaky? When did you see Khaosai get seriously hurt? He certainly didn't get knocked down with the frequency Moon did.
Thanks for your posts Joonie. I'm learning a lot.
Moon's chin was very good, but Khaosai's was shaky? When did you see Khaosai get seriously hurt? He certainly didn't get knocked down with the frequency Moon did.
Thanks for your posts Joonie. I'm learning a lot.
Re: The Most Misleading Records in Boxing History
"IIRC, Watanabe dumped a belt in order to avoid fighting Galaxy."
I've acknowledged that.
"Khaosai would have KO'd Roman and Moon."
Roman likely Moon not sure. A meeting between these 2 would have been a slug-fest with no boxing. I don't see Galaxy having a measurable advantage in either power or chin.
"Galaxy's level of opposition is underrated."
Sorry; you are flat-out wrong. There is no other way to put it. You don't avoid the 6-7 best guys at your weight & boast an "underrated" opposition.
"Ellyas Pical was a two-time IBF champ, and Galaxy was the only man to KO him."
So what? Pical never fought anyone other than Galaxy. Besides, he received 2 gifts against Korean fighters in Indonesia, one of them scandalous & one of the worst robberies in Korean boxing annals (right up there with Chan-Hee Park's "loss" to Oguma in their 2nd fight).
"Edgar Monserrat got blown out in two by Galaxy but would go on to go the distance with Roman, losing by split decision."
Did you see Roman v. Monserrat? It wasn't close. Besides, Moon blew him out as well.
"Israel Contreras would go on to win the WBA bantamweight title with a KO over Luisito Espinosa."
And that was the only world title fight he won.
"David Griman looks like a pretty good fighter from his record."
"Record[s]" are deceiving. Look more carefully. Griman was a flyweight titlist who won his title beating a guy who was 7-5. (Galaxy had a knack for beating natural flyweights who moved up.) His other 2 wins in world title matches? Against the natural straweight Hiroki Ioka & some bum named Mercado.
"AFAIK, this claim of Galaxy receiving gift decisions is wholly unsubstantiated. Only three of his title defenses went the distance, and I haven't heard anyone say that he lost any of them."
Did you see Matsumura I?
I've acknowledged that.
"Khaosai would have KO'd Roman and Moon."
Roman likely Moon not sure. A meeting between these 2 would have been a slug-fest with no boxing. I don't see Galaxy having a measurable advantage in either power or chin.
"Galaxy's level of opposition is underrated."
Sorry; you are flat-out wrong. There is no other way to put it. You don't avoid the 6-7 best guys at your weight & boast an "underrated" opposition.
"Ellyas Pical was a two-time IBF champ, and Galaxy was the only man to KO him."
So what? Pical never fought anyone other than Galaxy. Besides, he received 2 gifts against Korean fighters in Indonesia, one of them scandalous & one of the worst robberies in Korean boxing annals (right up there with Chan-Hee Park's "loss" to Oguma in their 2nd fight).
"Edgar Monserrat got blown out in two by Galaxy but would go on to go the distance with Roman, losing by split decision."
Did you see Roman v. Monserrat? It wasn't close. Besides, Moon blew him out as well.
"Israel Contreras would go on to win the WBA bantamweight title with a KO over Luisito Espinosa."
And that was the only world title fight he won.
"David Griman looks like a pretty good fighter from his record."
"Record[s]" are deceiving. Look more carefully. Griman was a flyweight titlist who won his title beating a guy who was 7-5. (Galaxy had a knack for beating natural flyweights who moved up.) His other 2 wins in world title matches? Against the natural straweight Hiroki Ioka & some bum named Mercado.
"AFAIK, this claim of Galaxy receiving gift decisions is wholly unsubstantiated. Only three of his title defenses went the distance, and I haven't heard anyone say that he lost any of them."
Did you see Matsumura I?
Agree on Moon's defense being just as bad.gensu3k1 wrote:"But on the other hand, Galaxy may have been an overnight champion if he fought anyone with a pulse. He had slow hands, slow foot, unbelievably easy to hit (one good friend and an even more informed boxing observer calls his defense "sweese cheese"), and shaky chin. And he may not even been the biggest puncher at his weight during his era (I think Moon hit harder)."
Moon's defense was every bit as bad as Galaxy's. And as far as one-punch power goes, I think Galaxy hit harder. Moon mostly wore people down with accumulated punishment. Galaxy could knock you out at any moment.
I will grant you that Galaxy scored more one-punch type of knock-outs. But that's also a function of his not facing guys like Roman, Konadu & his brother.
Again, Galaxy not being in as much trouble as Moon was also function of his facing no hard punchers. On the other hand, he was wobbled by light hitters like Matsumura (in both fights). Imagine what would have happened if he faced someone like Moon or even Konadu?gensu3k1 wrote:"Unbelievable power (in my opinion superior power than Galaxy), very good chin, a true crow-pleaser. His fights with Konadu and Galaxy were wars."
Moon's chin was very good, but Khaosai's was shaky? When did you see Khaosai get seriously hurt? He certainly didn't get knocked down with the frequency Moon did.
Thanks for your posts Joonie. I'm learning a lot.
Yes, but in my opinion, he cannot be held higher than guys like Moon, who actually went out and did beat the best guys around.TonyJ wrote:Joonie i agree that Galaxy did not fight the best competion thier was in his time, Iv'e seen him fight several times and i beleive that if he would have stepped up and fought the better opposition at that time i feel he would have been a seriouse threat to anyone because of his raw power and determination so i woudn't count him out against any top 115 pounder of his time.
Chong-Pal Park was a joke. No other way of saying it. You can't be hood-winked by pretty records of some Asian titlists, as they fought marshmellows and even then needed gifts (check out Park v. Lindell Holmes; what a heist!)Jeffsboxing wrote:More best asian fighters:
- the Galaxy twins (khaokor and khaosay)
- muangchai kitikasem
- park chong pal
- Dodi 'boy' Penalosa
- Elly Pical
- saman surjaturong
- myself -)
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gensu3k1
- Heavyweight
Re: The Most Misleading Records in Boxing History
"Roman likely Moon not sure. A meeting between these 2 would have been a slug-fest with no boxing. I don't see Galaxy having a measurable advantage in either power or chin."
We'll never know for sure, but I'll take the guy with more one-shot power.
"Sorry; you are flat-out wrong. There is no other way to put it. You don't avoid the 6-7 best guys at your weight & boast an "underrated" opposition."
Who were these 6-7 guys? Other than Roman and Moon?
Also, we should remember that Moon didn't go pro until Galaxy's prime was ending.
"So what? Pical never fought anyone other than Galaxy. Besides, he received 2 gifts against Korean fighters in Indonesia, one of them scandalous & one of the worst robberies in Korean boxing annals (right up there with Chan-Hee Park's "loss" to Oguma in their 2nd fight)."
This is the kind of stuff I love to learn about.
""Israel Contreras would go on to win the WBA bantamweight title with a KO over Luisito Espinosa."
And that was the only world title fight he won."
Still, he was a good opponent.
""AFAIK, this claim of Galaxy receiving gift decisions is wholly unsubstantiated. Only three of his title defenses went the distance, and I haven't heard anyone say that he lost any of them."
Did you see Matsumura I?"
No, but this is the first I've heard that it was controversial. Were any other Galaxy victories considered controversial?
We'll never know for sure, but I'll take the guy with more one-shot power.
"Sorry; you are flat-out wrong. There is no other way to put it. You don't avoid the 6-7 best guys at your weight & boast an "underrated" opposition."
Who were these 6-7 guys? Other than Roman and Moon?
Also, we should remember that Moon didn't go pro until Galaxy's prime was ending.
"So what? Pical never fought anyone other than Galaxy. Besides, he received 2 gifts against Korean fighters in Indonesia, one of them scandalous & one of the worst robberies in Korean boxing annals (right up there with Chan-Hee Park's "loss" to Oguma in their 2nd fight)."
This is the kind of stuff I love to learn about.
""Israel Contreras would go on to win the WBA bantamweight title with a KO over Luisito Espinosa."
And that was the only world title fight he won."
Still, he was a good opponent.
""AFAIK, this claim of Galaxy receiving gift decisions is wholly unsubstantiated. Only three of his title defenses went the distance, and I haven't heard anyone say that he lost any of them."
Did you see Matsumura I?"
No, but this is the first I've heard that it was controversial. Were any other Galaxy victories considered controversial?
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gensu3k1
- Heavyweight
I actually think Konadu hit even harder than Moon. But I think Galaxy would have had an easier time with Konadu than Moon did (and I'm a Konadu fan). Nana's chin sucked, and Galaxy would have finished him off if he got the chances Moon did in his first fight with Konadu.joonie73 wrote: Again, Galaxy not being in as much trouble as Moon was also function of his facing no hard punchers. On the other hand, he was wobbled by light hitters like Matsumura (in both fights). Imagine what would have happened if he faced someone like Moon or even Konadu?
He did get wobbled a bit by Matsumura (in their second fight), but it's not like he was in trouble. I would say that Khaosai had a B+ chin.
I also think Khaosai had better handspeed than Moon, and had the better straight punches.
Re: The Most Misleading Records in Boxing History
"We'll never know for sure, but I'll take the guy with more one-shot power."
And again, I will strenuously dispute that claim that Galaxy had more power.
"Who were these 6-7 guys? Other than Roman and Moon?"
Roman, Moon, Watanabe, Konadu, Laciar, Ramos were all better than anyone Galaxy faced.
"Also, we should remember that Moon didn't go pro until Galaxy's prime was ending."
It's not just 1 guy; when a guy ducks everyone, then you have to raise questions.
"This is the kind of stuff I love to learn about."
Glad you are open-minded & I appreciate it.
"No, but this is the first I've heard that it was controversial. Were any other Galaxy victories considered controversial?"
No other fight I can recall.
And again, I will strenuously dispute that claim that Galaxy had more power.
"Who were these 6-7 guys? Other than Roman and Moon?"
Roman, Moon, Watanabe, Konadu, Laciar, Ramos were all better than anyone Galaxy faced.
"Also, we should remember that Moon didn't go pro until Galaxy's prime was ending."
It's not just 1 guy; when a guy ducks everyone, then you have to raise questions.
"This is the kind of stuff I love to learn about."
Glad you are open-minded & I appreciate it.
"No, but this is the first I've heard that it was controversial. Were any other Galaxy victories considered controversial?"
No other fight I can recall.
"I actually think Konadu hit even harder than Moon."
I beg to differ. Very very strongly on this one. Nana was more a boxer-puncher who threw sharp, crisp punches, not atomic shots.
"But I think Galaxy would have had an easier time with Konadu than Moon did (and I'm a Konadu fan). Nana's chin sucked, and Galaxy would have finished him off if he got the chances Moon did in his first fight with Konadu."
Perhaps. But with Galaxy, you are dealing with too many "could'va"s. I'd favor Galaxy over Roman & Konadu as well, but maybe he can't get past the Konadu jab & corner him? Glaxy had feet of cement.
"He did get wobbled a bit by Matsumura (in their second fight), but it's not like he was in trouble. I would say that Khaosai had a B+ chin."
I'd prefer to say "N/A."
"I also think Khaosai had better handspeed than Moon, and had the better straight punches."
Disagree on better hand speed; I see no measurable difference. Agree on straight punches. Moon often just threw windmill hooks.
I beg to differ. Very very strongly on this one. Nana was more a boxer-puncher who threw sharp, crisp punches, not atomic shots.
"But I think Galaxy would have had an easier time with Konadu than Moon did (and I'm a Konadu fan). Nana's chin sucked, and Galaxy would have finished him off if he got the chances Moon did in his first fight with Konadu."
Perhaps. But with Galaxy, you are dealing with too many "could'va"s. I'd favor Galaxy over Roman & Konadu as well, but maybe he can't get past the Konadu jab & corner him? Glaxy had feet of cement.
"He did get wobbled a bit by Matsumura (in their second fight), but it's not like he was in trouble. I would say that Khaosai had a B+ chin."
I'd prefer to say "N/A."
"I also think Khaosai had better handspeed than Moon, and had the better straight punches."
Disagree on better hand speed; I see no measurable difference. Agree on straight punches. Moon often just threw windmill hooks.