A few questions for our British Friends

[Ambling Alp]

I just have a few questions regarding some things that I have read in books by British Authors:

1. The term "booths". Often I will haer about a guy,(usually many years ago) fighting in "booths" when he was young. What does that mean?

2. In reader older books, what we in the United States would call the lightheavyweight division, in Britain it was sometimes referred to as "cruiserweight". (I think it was in reference to the 2nd biggest Navy Ship being a "cruiser")This was before the days of the cruiserweight divison. Do people in Great Britain still refer to lightheavyweights as cruiserweights?
Is what we in the United States call cruiserweight called something else in Britain?

3. Was the Lonsdale Belt considered a big deal in Britain throughout history?
Is it consdiered a big deal now?

Would appreciate it if someone can shed some light on any of this.

[JC]

I just have a few questions regarding some things that I have read in books by British Authors:

1. The term "booths". Often I will haer about a guy,(usually many years ago) fighting in "booths" when he was young. What does that mean?

2. In reader older books, what we in the United States would call the lightheavyweight division, in Britain it was sometimes referred to as "cruiserweight". (I think it was in reference to the 2nd biggest Navy Ship being a "cruiser")This was before the days of the cruiserweight divison. Do people in Great Britain still refer to lightheavyweights as cruiserweights?
Is what we in the United States call cruiserweight called something else in Britain?

3. Was the Lonsdale Belt considered a big deal in Britain throughout history?
Is it consdiered a big deal now?

Would appreciate it if someone can shed some light on any of this.

1) Booths usually refer to a place at a fair ground where people could come and pay a small amount to fight a round (or number of rounds) with a boxer with the chance to win money if they did well. Basically it meant taking all comers too see if they could beat you.

It would have obviously been a very hard life for the boxer, as they would have had to fight many people each day, but many of the old champs such as Jimmy Wilde and Jem Driscoll learnt their craft there. I have read that Wilde had over 500 bouts in the the Booths and never lost whether that is myth I don't know.

2) Yes Cruiserweight is what the LHW division used to be called in the UK, no people don't call it that anymore. I believe when the cruiserweight class was invented they deliberately took the old UK name for the LHW division. I've never hearn anyone still refer to the 175lb class as Cruiserweight maybe some of the older guys have?

3) Don't know too much about the history of the Lonsdale belt, it is respected in as much as it is viewed as the first step on the traditional route to the world title (British - European - World).

hope that helps

[Controversial]

I just have a few questions regarding some things that I have read in books by British Authors:

1. The term "booths". Often I will haer about a guy,(usually many years ago) fighting in "booths" when he was young. What does that mean?

2. In reader older books, what we in the United States would call the lightheavyweight division, in Britain it was sometimes referred to as "cruiserweight". (I think it was in reference to the 2nd biggest Navy Ship being a "cruiser")This was before the days of the cruiserweight divison. Do people in Great Britain still refer to lightheavyweights as cruiserweights?
Is what we in the United States call cruiserweight called something else in Britain?

3. Was the Lonsdale Belt considered a big deal in Britain throughout history?
Is it consdiered a big deal now?

Would appreciate it if someone can shed some light on any of this.

Boxing booths were part of the fairgrounds, basically each fairground had their own fighters and men off the street could challenge them. If they beat them they get money. Some well known British fighters were booth fighters including Randolph Turpin. Or sometimes two men off the street would fight each other. There were some really tough kids that fought in the booths, fighting really regularly and sometimes against much bigger and older men.

The below link is worth a read.

http://www.thegalloper.com/backstories/ ... aylor.html

We still call light-heavyweights, light heavyweights, not cruiserweights.

The Lonsdale Belt is still held in high esteem. Its awarded to fighters who win British titles and they get to keep it when the defend the title 3 times. Henry Cooper won three Lonsdale Belts. The belts are made of gold and porcelain, expensive to make.

[JC]

Obviously anyone who earnt their living in the booths must have been a tough bugger, but they must have varied in ability. You have to feel sorry of the guys who paid their 2 pence or whatever, and copped a beating off Jimmy Wilde

[jimglen]

the Lonsdale Belt used to be, stress USED TO BE, one of the most sought after prizes in Sport, it was likened onto the One World championship Belt, the Ring belt, and though the ring belt carried the greater recognition as 'definitive' World Champion, it's my understanding the Lonsdale Belt was the more 'prestigious' in terms of value, craftsmanship, beauty and that sort of thing.

It was a great achievement to be the 'holder' of one, (used to have to Win it and defend it twice to keep it) an absolute beautiful and valuable award...the original belts from 1909, and I'm told, though many of their where abouts are 'unknown' are worth a couple of hundred thousand dollars or pounds (???), I don't know. But they were "the Real Deal and a great Historical Sporting prize, unlike today!

Boxer also fought dozens to hundreds of PRO fights in the Boxing Booths as well, against 'local' & travelling pro's, many sanctioned and many more Un- Sanctioned.

[Controversial]

Obviously anyone who earnt their living in the booths must have been a tough bugger, but they must have varied in ability. You have to feel sorry of the guys who paid their 2 pence or whatever, and copped a beating off Jimmy Wilde

Ha ha yeah that would have been my luck. I read somewhere that Wilde fought something like 20+ blokes in one day. When you think how small he was they must have all been much bigger than him.

[Ezzard]

J-C seems to have covered (1) and (2)...

My Grandad used to get involved in fights with the booth boxers. He told me how him and his friends would take on a guy one after another. The first two would try and soften him up to give the third guy a chance of some success. My Grandad said that even then they usually came out the worst of it. A lot of the people who went in were decent fighters in their own right and the booth fighters would sometimes be heavily outweighed.

In terms of The Lonsdale Belt it was of course a highly significant belt for a long time. It used to be that every 3 wins in a British Title fight allowed the winner to keep a belt outright. People from a certain generation revered these belts. Even in the 1980s prospects wanted to win a Lonsdale outright before moving on to world titles. Unfortunately these days with the WBO, WBU, IBO, IBA buckles around many fighters can avoid a decent domestic match up by fighting for a "world" title. These tin pot commissions and federations (such grandiose names for charlatan organisations) haven't just damaged the world titles significance they've also damaged the domestic scene in the UK, IMO.

The first real big name fighter not to go after a British Title that I remember was Frank Bruno.

I think that Mr allegedly could do Amir Khan (in terms of public relations) and British Boxing a great service by having him go after a Lonsdale Belt and treat it with some reverence. Khan seems like a decent kid and the whole 'Britsh Muslim' angle would be underlined by him holding the British title.

[Seamus]

I knew about the booths in England from reading about the Krays (over to you Collins) it's basically the same thing we referred to in the States as vs All Comers.

[Ambling Alp]

Thanks for getting back to me guys. I have always wondering about these things.
So if as guy won the British title, defended it twice, he would get a Lonsdale belt? Then if he defended successfully 3 more times, he gets another, etc? Just out of curiousity, who has the record for the most belts?

[Collins2000]

Thanks for getting back to me guys. I have always wondering about these things.
So if as guy won the British title, defended it twice, he would get a Lonsdale belt? Then if he defended successfully 3 more times, he gets another, etc? Just out of curiousity, who has the record for the most belts?

The rule was 3 wins (chllenges of defences) at the same weight in British title bouts meant you got to keep the belt and a new one was then created.

There was no limit to the number of belts you could win.

Henry Cooper has / had 3.

The belts incorporated sections made of solid gold.


The rules have been changed over the last 30 or so years.


Now you need 4 wins at the same weight in British title bouts.

You can only win 1 belt at any weight.

The belts do not now include any solid gold components.