How healthy is the British heavyweight scene?

tolstoy · Post by **tolstoy** » 19 Sep 2003, 09:14

When I started following boxing, the British champion was John L Gardner and I couldn't name a single other British heavyweight at the time. Funso Banjo fought in Britain at the time but I think he was Nigerian.

What a difference twenty years makes: We've got Lennox Lewis, Henry Akinwande, Herbie Hide, Danny Williams, Audley Harrison - all, arguably, world class fighters. There are also good domestic fighters like Michael Sprott and, dare I say on the basis of beating one named opponent, Matt Skelton.

Even when Bruno and Mason were flirting with world class, I don't believe we've ever had it so good.

If anyone thinks different, please post!

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 19 Sep 2003, 09:20

I agree, when compared to the early eighties things are great. Don't forget Greenberg as an exciting prospect too.

The world Heavyweight scene is pretty poor at the moment too so I don't see why one of our guys can't cause an upset or two out there.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 19 Sep 2003, 09:28

Yes it's never been better, ever since Lennox blasted Ruddock that night the whole British heavyweight scene has changed - we suddenly realised we had a heavyweight over here who could actualy fight!

After all those years of comments like
"If you laid all the British heavyweights end to end...I wouldn't be at all surprised"

They thought John L could make a go of it at one point, even sending him over to the USA to be cruely exposed by Mike Dokes - not sure you could get knocked out in a more convincing manner!

Then we had Dave Pearce....a 40 something Neville Meade.... :(

I'm hoping guys like Williams and Skelton can make a few waves, but I really think old Herbie Hide is nothing but a mirage - no matter what the Beeb tell us - he's going to be brutaly exposed as soon as he steps into the ring with a semi live opponent.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 19 Sep 2003, 09:31

Good topic this. For me it depends on how you define "healthy". The British heavyweght division is as potentially exciting as what it's been since I can remember.

Williams. Sprott, Harrison, Hide and then up and comers like Skelton and Greenberg (ok but he fights in Britain) could all serve up some great 50-50 matches IF the fights can be made the protagonists are willing to risk all.

I would argue though that the domestic heavyweight scene is unhealthy because I don't feel we have one single fighter who is capable of mixing and handling himself in world class.

Williams - erratic, mentally fragile, hammered by Sam
Hide - ditto, glass jaw
Sprott - in form of his life, but exposed before at higher level, chin
Harrison - reluctance to fight his domestic rivals, lack of big punch, chin, stamina, age BUT is our best hope in spite off all that.
Skelton - age, stamina, lack of boxing experience
Greenberg - regarded by some as a unique talent, but questions over his size, does he punch hard enough?, worrying sparring rumours?

Although the domestic heavyweight scene in Britain has lacked much needed excitement, in Lewis, Akninwande, Bruno and Hide (pre Bowe) all went on to compete successfully in world class. Some more successfully than others. How many of our current crop of heavyweights will be able to do the same, if any??

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 19 Sep 2003, 09:48

lightsoot wrote:Good topic this. For me it depends on how you define "healthy". The British heavyweght division is as potentially exciting as what it's been since I can remember.

Williams. Sprott, Harrison, Hide and then up and comers like Skelton and Greenberg (ok but he fights in Britain) could all serve up some great 50-50 matches IF the fights can be made the protagonists are willing to risk all.

I would argue though that the domestic heavyweight scene is unhealthy because I don't feel we have one single fighter who is capable of mixing and handling himself in world class.

Williams - erratic, mentally fragile, hammered by Sam
Hide - ditto, glass jaw
Sprott - in form of his life, but exposed before at higher level, chin
Harrison - reluctance to fight his domestic rivals, lack of big punch, chin, stamina, age BUT is our best hope in spite off all that.
Skelton - age, stamina, lack of boxing experience
Greenberg - regarded by some as a unique talent, but questions over his size, does he punch hard enough?, worrying sparring rumours?

Although the domestic heavyweight scene in Britain has lacked much needed excitement, in Lewis, Akninwande, Bruno and Hide (pre Bowe) all went on to compete successfully in world class. Some more successfully than others. How many of our current crop of heavyweights will be able to do the same, if any??

Jesus, Ben, you're not coming to my next party! Seriously, I was thinking along the same lines. To start with, I have a horrible feeling Sprott is going to disappoint against Danny Williams on the 26th. Don't get me wrong. I really want him to do well. I just don't know if he has improved as much as he says he has and, of course, if he has the chin. So what!, you might be saying. Well, actually, it's quite important. If you look at the other leading heavyweights in this country, Sprott and Greenberg apart, they're all old men. Even Danny is now 30.
So to answer the question, I wouldn't say the division is overly healthy. But, yes, it's certainly exciting.

Chambers · Post by **Chambers** » 19 Sep 2003, 09:49

Andrew Golota will be over here soon aswell. A few years down the line Haye and Maccarinelli will probably move up to HW.

I think what makes our HW scene so exciting is, there is nobody who is truly dominating the division (Audley

,will though) and there are that many possibilities of competitive match-ups match

Lugh · Post by **Lugh** » 19 Sep 2003, 10:15

POTENTIALLY EXCITING

That is the key difference.

Right now we have Danny Williams (appearing to) starting the trend of our top boys actually FIGHTING EACHOTHER.

unless they fight we just have a lot of EXCITING NAMES in the division - NOT an EXCITING DIVISION.

Remember how we were all saying how exciting the Light Middles were looking recently? Richard Williams, Steve Roberts and co?

EXACTLY.

Chambers · Post by **Chambers** » 19 Sep 2003, 11:36

Lugh wrote:POTENTIALLY EXCITING

That is the key difference.

Right now we have Danny Williams (appearing to) starting the trend of our top boys actually FIGHTING EACHOTHER.

unless they fight we just have a lot of EXCITING NAMES in the division - NOT an EXCITING DIVISION.

Remember how we were all saying how exciting the Light Middles were looking recently? Richard Williams, Steve Roberts and co?

EXACTLY.

I agree that at the moment it is only potential excitement, but I am sure that over the next 12-18 months we are going to see some big domestic HW clashes, there is too much money and fame to be made.
Williams Vs Sprott is just the first of many.......I hope

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 19 Sep 2003, 12:23

Gonads wrote:Harrison will never amount to anything unless he comes back to Australia and faces our own amazing, incredible, unbelievable HW champ Colin Wilson. You can run Audley but you can't hide from Colin

Fighting tonight isn't he?

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 19 Sep 2003, 13:01

Gonads wrote:Harrison will never amount to anything unless he comes back to Australia and faces our own amazing, incredible, unbelievable HW champ Colin Wilson. You can run Audley but you can't hide from Colin

Yes, I've heard it was Audley who convinced Anthony Bumdine to pull out of the original Sydney show due to last-minute nerves. "Tony, Tony," he said, to which the real fighter in the Mundine family turned round, the show's part promoter Tony Mundine. "This guy ain't a cruiserweight. He nearly beat Bugner!"
Indeed Wilson looked pretty formidable on paper and photos of the man were just as impressive. Those blubbery arms. That receding hairline. Hey, this is a guy who was stopped four times by Kali Meehan and also had a couple of decent losing scraps with "Big" Bob Mirovic! He ain't bad.
Harrison continued: "He's experienced, Tony. Who's your cruiserweight champ?"
Tony was unsure. "Well, it did use to be Paul Briggs."
"fornicate, he's with Warren."
"Listen," said Tony. "I fought "Bad" Bennie, I fought Monzon, I fought Jesse Burnett . You know? Good guys. I know how you're feeling. But you've got to suck it up, get in there and get on with it."
"But, but...you were knocked out by those guys!"
"I got in there, you pommie bastard!"
"No offence, Tony. You were a great fighter. It's just, things have changed since your time mate. We don't have to fight anyone good any more. Look, I don't even have to fight heavyweights in my own country. They think I'm gonna fight Danny Williams, Herbie Hide and Michael Sprott. fornicate that. Between you and me, I'm hoping to sod off to the States where I can fight a few more cruisers without the British press hammering me. That's why I came over here, Tone. I was hoping for a bit of a soft touch. I won my gold medal here. I'm not looking for a proper fight again. I was hoping for a welcome back opponent. Why have you given me Wilson!"
"Strewth. I'll get on to Anthony and see if I can pull a few strings..."

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Sep 2003, 14:37

bennie wrote:
lightsoot wrote:Good topic this. For me it depends on how you define "healthy". The British heavyweght division is as potentially exciting as what it's been since I can remember.

Williams. Sprott, Harrison, Hide and then up and comers like Skelton and Greenberg (ok but he fights in Britain) could all serve up some great 50-50 matches IF the fights can be made the protagonists are willing to risk all.

I would argue though that the domestic heavyweight scene is unhealthy because I don't feel we have one single fighter who is capable of mixing and handling himself in world class.

Williams - erratic, mentally fragile, hammered by Sam
Hide - ditto, glass jaw
Sprott - in form of his life, but exposed before at higher level, chin
Harrison - reluctance to fight his domestic rivals, lack of big punch, chin, stamina, age BUT is our best hope in spite off all that.
Skelton - age, stamina, lack of boxing experience
Greenberg - regarded by some as a unique talent, but questions over his size, does he punch hard enough?, worrying sparring rumours?

Although the domestic heavyweight scene in Britain has lacked much needed excitement, in Lewis, Akninwande, Bruno and Hide (pre Bowe) all went on to compete successfully in world class. Some more successfully than others. How many of our current crop of heavyweights will be able to do the same, if any??
Jesus, Ben, you're not coming to my next party! Seriously, I was thinking along the same lines. To start with, I have a horrible feeling Sprott is going to disappoint against Danny Williams on the 26th. Don't get me wrong. I really want him to do well. I just don't know if he has improved as much as he says he has and, of course, if he has the chin. So what!, you might be saying. Well, actually, it's quite important. If you look at the other leading heavyweights in this country, Sprott and Greenberg apart, they're all old men. Even Danny is now 30.
So to answer the question, I wouldn't say the division is overly healthy. But, yes, it's certainly exciting.

Ben, agreed.

Bennie, agreed.

Good posts - you beat me to it.

I have this feeling this 'new' Sprott isn't much better than the one who lost to Williams 18 months ago.

When you have, and not disrespect intended, Julius Francis still very much in the domestic equation then it speaks volumes about the current scene. As you said Lightsoot, how many of these can compete world level. Apart from Lewis, I think the only one with a slight (and I mean very slight chance) is Williams. Lightsoot's descriptions of the fighters was spot on.

Maybe if Akinwande came back and exposed the lot below Lewis (which he would do) then the lay fans could see that this is an exciting time not a quality time.

As Lightsoot was infering at one time Boxing Monthly had Lewis, Bruno, Hide, and Akinwande all in the top ten at the same time. Below them we had the likes of Welsch, Oyeloba, Mitchell, and Francis who are poor next to these four world rated fighters but would probably be a handful for the likes of Williams,Long, Sprott etc. Francis still is there which says enough.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 19 Sep 2003, 19:31

Good win for Wilson. Izon lacks stamina, but is certainly dangerous early on.