Of the heavyweight champions, known for their power, which of these men do you rate higher than the other? There is often the debate that speed is a far more potent factor in 'knockouts' than pure power alone, but nonethless, take your best guesses:
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Rocky Marciano
Jack Dempsey
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Max Baer
Jim Jefferies
John L. Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Ingemar Johansson
Here's how I ranked these men:
George Foreman
Rocky Marciano
Max Baer
Sonny Liston
Jim Jefferies
Joe Louis
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Jack Dempsey
John L. Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Ingemar Johansson
Foreman, no doubt had the edge in power in his prime than anyone else who ever wore the crown. Only Earnie Shavers beat him out on the power rankings, though he never won a title. His kayos of Frazier, Norton and how his power carried over well into his 40's (Holyfield still insists Foreman hit him the hardest) to regain the HW title at age 45 is remarkable.
Marciano, at no more than 187 pounds, worked out with a 300 pound punching bag because 'I want to move a 200 pound man around the ring whenever I want to', and by testing done was shown to have the same amount of energy (in his blows) as an armour piercing shell and/or the same amount of energy required to spot lift 1,000 pounds one foot off the ground.
Max Baer killed a man with his fists, and blew away such men as Max Schmeling in awesome brutality. When he wanted to, he could drop 200+ pound men with that over hand right; Joe Louis once said 'He could have been the greatest of us all, had he been more serious.' His power was demonstrated, at best, against Primo Carnera, dropping the 275 pound Carnera 11 times in 11 rounds, 4 of which in the first round.
Liston could knock a man out with a jab, and was the role model of a young George Foreman. Outside of Muhammad Ali, there was none who could thwart him and stand up to his power, in a wonderfully rich talented area in HW history. Despite what stories you read of him, nobody was as successful at being malicous and bullying his snarl and presence, as well as his jack hammer hands, into the hearts and minds of his opponents.
Jim Jefferies was the 'superman' of his day. His strength was well noted and could knock a man out with either hand, though most of his kayos came by his right. He wasn't just strong but quite the athlete, much faster than people give him credit for. It was quite a shock for the crowd at Reno, Nevada having seeing Jefferies be stopped by Jack Johnson, for in their eyes Jefferies was truly 'invincible', as he never previously lost and won most of his fights with the greatest of ease.
Joe Louis, though not quite the bomb as Marciano or Foreman (sparring partners of the time said four of Joe Louis' punches equaled one of the Rock's), it wasn't so much his strength that made him RING magazines #1 Greatest Puncher, but the accuracy, timing and quickness of his combinations. There might very well have never been such a force, a perfect fighting machine from the waist up, as Joe Louis. 25 title defenses, the majority of which were won by knockout. Pretty tough record to compete with.
Frazier is probably the greatest 'one punch' fighter that ever lived. All other punches in his repitoire, were just diversions to lead up to the big left hook, that dropped Ali and made him easily the #2 HW of the 1970's, the greatest era for HW's. His bobbing and weaving, busy work rate, made him almost an impossible force to stop---only Foreman was able to stop him, the rest had to put up with Frazier's non-stop combinations.
Mike Tyson. Despite ending up the way he did, there has probably never been such a proper balance of power and skill in the ring, in his early days. When he fought, it was almost comical, with men hitting the ropes after being caught with a tremendous hook or uppercut and falling on their faces. Was like watching Superman battle it out on cartoons. It was that surreal. Greatest kayo? Quite possibly the three knockdowns he gave Trevor Berbick, all from a single punch---and it would have been a fourth knockdown had the referee not held Berbick up from falling.
Dempsey. 'Jack The Giant Killer'. 'The Manassa Mauler'. This man was a homicidal butcher when he fought. He mowed down the HW scene with ease, his last four opponents before Willard were by kayo in 2 rounds or less! Willard, Carpentier, and a slew of others all fell to his feet. He was possibly the biggest sports figure in boxing since the days of John L. Sullivan. His perpetual motion attack, bobbing and weaving, throwing punches from all angles, combined with his speed...was no short of frightening.
John L. Sullivan was the first real star of boxing, knocking out some 200 men throughout his career, in a time when you was only credited with a kayo if the other guy was completely out of it or near death. Many said that not only was he the greatest boxer of his era, but possibly the strongest man in America as well, as he did numerous weightlifting and strength related events (tossing kegs etc). He knocked many a man up and over the ring rope, breaking jaws as well as egos.
Note- Must also say on Sullivan that, it was reported that Sullivan single handedly was able to pick up a derailed trolley car and put it back on the tracks. He was that powerful in a brute strength sense and is one of the few men: Marciano, Jefferies, Foreman whose physical strength was transferred into punching power.
For being no more than 167 pounds, Fitsimmons power carried over in the HW division, even knocking out men who outweighed him by 100 pounds. Its hard to imagine, but Fitsimmons broke many a man's arms when they tried blocking from his attacks, and he killed two men in the ring. His power and hand speed carried well into his late 40's and competively fought on til he was 50, still facing the best LHW's, MW's and HW's the world had to offer.
Johansson's knockdowns and knockout over Floyd Patterson is the stuff of legend. The Big Swede tore through all of Europe to knockout Eddie Machen, Henry Cooper and Patterson. He was a right hand power hitter all the way, with little else going for him, but an abundance of courage. But his power cannot be ignored, he went from the European scene to beating the two best HW's in the world in stunning fashion, and it makes one wonder how he would have done had he competed for a few more years against the likes of Liston, Ali, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo and others.
Rate Their Power
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
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Rate Their Power
Last edited by HomicideHenry on 24 Mar 2007, 23:23, edited 1 time in total.
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The Durable Dane
- Heavyweight
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What a nice vacation from the granberry vibe. I agree with Foreman leading the charge. I differ with you perhaps with the ratings to some degree but appreciate your detailed support of why you rate them the way you do. I do agree with your asessment of Baer but there is someone here who would say that his dominance of Primo was "not what it seemed".
Re: Rate Their Power
[quote="IrishRufusMurphy"]Of the heavyweight champions, known for their power, which of these men do you rate higher than the other? There is often the debate that speed is a far more potent factor in 'knockouts' than pure power alone, but nonethless, take your best guesses:
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Rocky Marciano
Jack Dempsey
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Max Baer
Jim Jefferies
John L. Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Ingemar Johansson
Here's how I ranked these men:
George Foreman
Rocky Marciano
Max Baer
Sonny Liston
Jim Jefferies
Joe Louis
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Jack Dempsey
John L. Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Ingemar Johansson
[/quote]
Thanks for your interesting post. I am not so knowledgeable that I can comment on your list. But, I would like to say that on a number of occasions, I saw Foreman throw a jab and it had devastating affect (more than the best punch of many, many heavyweights). I did note that you indicated as much for Sonny Liston and said George had modelled himself after Sonny.
I have not seen films of many of the fighter you discussed. But, I have seen a few of Joe Louis. And, unlike many top fighters, he had one punch knockout power in either hand.
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Rocky Marciano
Jack Dempsey
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Max Baer
Jim Jefferies
John L. Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Ingemar Johansson
Here's how I ranked these men:
George Foreman
Rocky Marciano
Max Baer
Sonny Liston
Jim Jefferies
Joe Louis
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Jack Dempsey
John L. Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Ingemar Johansson
[/quote]
Thanks for your interesting post. I am not so knowledgeable that I can comment on your list. But, I would like to say that on a number of occasions, I saw Foreman throw a jab and it had devastating affect (more than the best punch of many, many heavyweights). I did note that you indicated as much for Sonny Liston and said George had modelled himself after Sonny.
I have not seen films of many of the fighter you discussed. But, I have seen a few of Joe Louis. And, unlike many top fighters, he had one punch knockout power in either hand.
Re: Rate Their Power
lol.. what, Frazier and Rocky had more power than Tyson?.. give me a brake.IrishRufusMurphy wrote:
Here's how I ranked these men:
George Foreman
Rocky Marciano
Max Baer
Sonny Liston
Jim Jefferies
Joe Louis
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Jack Dempsey
John L. Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Ingemar Johansson
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Tyson's 'power' was his speed; he was devestating as a young man, but in these last few years you can see he had the power (brute power) to hurt men like Francis, Norris, Botha, Golota---but without his speed he wasn't as devestating and his power wasn't enough to even put away Lewis, even when he landed flush shots on Lewis in the first round.
No, the Tyson of 1995 onward was just merely a man of power and ferocity, but no skill, no speed, a one shot artist---which shows me that he couldn't have had the power of a Marciano or Frazier, that his true power was in his quickness of his younger years.
No, the Tyson of 1995 onward was just merely a man of power and ferocity, but no skill, no speed, a one shot artist---which shows me that he couldn't have had the power of a Marciano or Frazier, that his true power was in his quickness of his younger years.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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When did Tyson hit Lewis flush? The jab he landed in the first that put Lewis almost down trough the ropes?(ok wasn't that dramatic, but Tyson really didn't catch Lewis with anything that fight)IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Tyson's 'power' was his speed; he was devestating as a young man, but in these last few years you can see he had the power (brute power) to hurt men like Francis, Norris, Botha, Golota---but without his speed he wasn't as devestating and his power wasn't enough to even put away Lewis, even when he landed flush shots on Lewis in the first round.
No, the Tyson of 1995 onward was just merely a man of power and ferocity, but no skill, no speed, a one shot artist---which shows me that he couldn't have had the power of a Marciano or Frazier, that his true power was in his quickness of his younger years.
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ringsider
- Heavyweight
To judge an old washed up Tyson's power vs Lennox Lewis is absurd. Tyson of the mid 80's would KO Lewis. Too quick, strong, and confidient.When did Tyson hit Lewis flush? The jab he landed in the first that put Lewis almost down trough the ropes?(ok wasn't that dramatic, but Tyson really didn't catch Lewis with anything that fight)
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
BBBrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:joe louis?Ezzard wrote:1 Foreman
2 Liston
3 Tyson
4 Frazier
5 Dempsey
6 Marciano
7 Johannssson
8 Baer
9 Jeffries
johannsens right hand more powerful than baers??
Louis wasn't on the list... was he? I'll check...
No, not on the list. I'll accept your apology on that one 8)
Ingo and Baer could both punch. I struggled with that one I admit. Baer is so ahrd to judge though that the image of some of Ingo's KOs won the day.
Re: Rate Their Power
Sonny Liston
John L. Sullivan
Mike Tyson
George Foreman
Jim Jefferies
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
Max Baer
Joe Frazier
Ingemar Johansson
Bob Fitzsimmons
John L. Sullivan
Mike Tyson
George Foreman
Jim Jefferies
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
Max Baer
Joe Frazier
Ingemar Johansson
Bob Fitzsimmons
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I Feel Fine
- Heavyweight
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
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I Feel Fine
- Heavyweight
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milky skin
- Heavyweight
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tyson had a lot more power than you give him credit for . even when he lost his speed . he was still able to knock down lou saverese with a blocked punched . the uppercut he floored ribalta with early in his career is the most devastating punch i have ever seen . danny willams said tyson had unreal power and the punches that he blocked from tyson felt as hard as the punches that he was hit with flush by vitali and vitai is one of the hardest punchers in the divsion today.HomicideHenry wrote:Tyson's 'power' was his speed; he was devestating as a young man, but in these last few years you can see he had the power (brute power) to hurt men like Francis, Norris, Botha, Golota---but without his speed he wasn't as devestating and his power wasn't enough to even put away Lewis, even when he landed flush shots on Lewis in the first round.
No, the Tyson of 1995 onward was just merely a man of power and ferocity, but no skill, no speed, a one shot artist---which shows me that he couldn't have had the power of a Marciano or Frazier, that his true power was in his quickness of his younger years.
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Cojimar 1945
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 482
- Joined: 07 Oct 2003, 15:15
eras
If we are measuring by physical abilities the most recent heavyweights might have a big advantage. On the other hand if we are ranking guys by how they compare to contemporaries some will stick out more than others.