Mundine's next move?

woe31 · Post by **woe31** » 20 Mar 2007, 19:51

Taki... wrote:Er, Taylor is bigger than Mundine, has better handspeed than Mundine, and is a match for Mundine in the power stakes... and I had Winky winning that fight.

I think there's a new Vicious thread in the off topic forum. Perhaps you should go there to bait him and let the people who have seen Mundine fight talk about him.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 21 Mar 2007, 00:04

When did all this Mundine nuthugging start!?! He has improved, yes. He is fast, yes. But he has NEVER beaten the best in his division or even the best in his chosen organisation! Every time he has tried he has lost! He has never beaten a p4p fighter. Wright and Taylor have beaten the best, they have beaten top p4p fighters and they are top p4p fighters, they deserve all the resepect they get. In all honesty I don't think Mundine would be on these guys radar anyway. Wright's next fight is against Bernard Hopkins at 170lbs! Anyone who says fighting Mundine at 160 is more of a risk or more meaningful is kidding themselves!

woe31 · Post by **woe31** » 21 Mar 2007, 00:42

Nuthugging.... without doubt my favorite term on this site. I would say the "nuthugging" (or praise if you will) started right around the time he made the improvments you speak of. I'm far from Mundine's biggest fan but considering the improvments he's made I rate him very highly. You may not like what he says, or how he acts but you can't deny his skills.

Personally, I would love to see him drop down to fight the Wrights, Mirandas, Abrahams and Taylors at 160. I believe Kessler is too big for him and I doubt Calzaghe would be interested in a fight at 168, so his best bet to become a fully fledged world champ may be at 160. Though nobody can make an educated guess as to how he'd go as he's not fought at 160 before, a fight against any one of the four mentioned would be intriguing fights and should sell well.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 21 Mar 2007, 00:53

woe31 wrote:Nuthugging.... without doubt my favorite term on this site.

lol

Yeah I only picked the term up on here myself.

I have never denied his ability I am simply pointing out that he is not a p4p fighter at the moment seeing as he has never beaten any of the top p4p guys. Wright/Taylor on the other hand have and they deserve to start as the favourite against a fighter who has been operating in a class below themselves...

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 21 Mar 2007, 02:38

Marlin wrote:When did all this Mundine nuthugging start!?! He has improved, yes. He is fast, yes. But he has NEVER beaten the best in his division or even the best in his chosen organisation! Every time he has tried he has lost! He has never beaten a p4p fighter. Wright and Taylor have beaten the best, they have beaten top p4p fighters and they are top p4p fighters, they deserve all the resepect they get. In all honesty I don't think Mundine would be on these guys radar anyway. Wright's next fight is against Bernard Hopkins at 170lbs! Anyone who says fighting Mundine at 160 is more of a risk or more meaningful is kidding themselves!

Winky couldn't do shit against Soliman and just managed a win and then a year later Mundine dominates and KOs him.

Mundine is learning the hard way, He is learning his skill against the best in his division and getting his experience along the way. The Mundine that fought against Kessler 2 years ago is no where near what he is today, Can you not see the improvment in Mundine or are you blinded by hatred. Do you not think that training with RJSnr has improved Mundines fighting a huge amount.

Winky is being shown way to much respect for a man who has lost to some average fighters, He beat a blown up lightweight in Moseley and that makes him a superstar well im not buying it.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 21 Mar 2007, 07:06

Marlin wrote:When did all this Mundine nuthugging start!?! He has improved, yes. He is fast, yes. But he has NEVER beaten the best in his division or even the best in his chosen organisation! Every time he has tried he has lost! He has never beaten a p4p fighter. Wright and Taylor have beaten the best, they have beaten top p4p fighters and they are top p4p fighters, they deserve all the resepect they get. In all honesty I don't think Mundine would be on these guys radar anyway. Wright's next fight is against Bernard Hopkins at 170lbs! Anyone who says fighting Mundine at 160 is more of a risk or more meaningful is kidding themselves!

Have a look at Winky when he'd had 31 fights, which is what Mundine's had. He hadn't even lost to Vargas or Simon yet, you noggin! Though he had been drpped 5 times by super fast Vasquez.

If you want to look at it in terms of years as a pro, it's also revealing. Mundine's been a pro around 6 1/2 years. Winky, meanwhile, has been profession for 16 years! No wonder his body of work is a bit heavier, LMAO!

I also think Jermain "Bigger, Faster, Better" Taylor is overrated as an athlete. He gasses vs feather fisted junior middles, tires in super slow fights. And believe me ahtleticism is just about the only thing to recommend this immature, unfinished pro.

Mundine is a better athete. He has better balance, cleaner punching, better defense than 'Bad Decisions.' Some may want to say, he didn't demonstrate this qualities vs a Hopkins-level fighter, but Taylor didn't show much physical or technical gifts vs Ouma!

Why does everyone have to be a "nuthugger" that holds the opposite opinion to you? ppl have been praising Mundine as a talent to watch since the Green fight. No one can comprehend his name mentioned among Taylor and Winky, because some sods are desperate enough to heap "greatness" onto this pair.

Is it out of the question, that a very good fighter (Mundine) can beat a very good fighter (either of those 2 super legendary top 5 pound for pounders)?

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 21 Mar 2007, 19:03

Ben Keilty wrote: Can you not see the improvment in Mundine or are you blinded by hatred. Do you not think that training with RJSnr has improved Mundines fighting a huge amount.

Have you actually read through my posts? If anyone is blind I think it's you mate. Here are some of the things I have said:

Marlin wrote:Mundine has improved since the fights you mentioned but he still loses to the top p4p guys...

Marlin wrote:He has improved, yes. He is fast, yes.

And from my post directly above yours...

I have never denied his ability I am simply pointing out that he is not a p4p fighter at the moment seeing as he has never beaten any of the top p4p guys. Wright/Taylor on the other hand have and they deserve to start as the favourite against a fighter who has been operating in a class below themselves...

As you can see I am not overlooking his improvment or ability. Do I think he could give them a fight, yes. But I am simply pointing out the FACT that Wright/Taylor have been winning against better opposition and therefore derserve to be looked at in a brighter light... come on mate credit where credit is due.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 21 Mar 2007, 19:09

Ben Keilty wrote:Winky is being shown way to much respect for a man who has lost to some average fighters, He beat a blown up lightweight in Moseley and that makes him a superstar well im not buying it.

So let me get this straight you want me to dismiss Wright's win's over Mosley while bowing down marvelling at Mundine's superb losses to Siaca, Kessler, Ottke and praising his exellent performances against the likes of Darmel Castillo (who couldn't get sanctioned in NSW), Rico Chong Nee and Rashid Matumla...

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 21 Mar 2007, 19:22

mad gear gang wrote:Have a look at Winky when he'd had 31 fights, which is what Mundine's had. He hadn't even lost to Vargas or Simon yet, you noggin! Though he had been drpped 5 times by super fast Vasquez.

If you want to look at it in terms of years as a pro, it's also revealing. Mundine's been a pro around 6 1/2 years. Winky, meanwhile, has been profession for 16 years! No wonder his body of work is a bit heavier, LMAO!

I also think Jermain "Bigger, Faster, Better" Taylor is overrated as an athlete. He gasses vs feather fisted junior middles, tires in super slow fights. And believe me ahtleticism is just about the only thing to recommend this immature, unfinished pro.

Mundine is a better athete. He has better balance, cleaner punching, better defense than 'Bad Decisions.' Some may want to say, he didn't demonstrate this qualities vs a Hopkins-level fighter, but Taylor didn't show much physical or technical gifts vs Ouma!

Why does everyone have to be a "nuthugger" that holds the opposite opinion to you? ppl have been praising Mundine as a talent to watch since the Green fight. No one can comprehend his name mentioned among Taylor and Winky, because some sods are desperate enough to heap "greatness" onto this pair.

Is it out of the question, that a very good fighter (Mundine) can beat a very good fighter (either of those 2 super legendary top 5 pound for pounders)?

You raise some good points here mate Mundine hasn't had as long to build his career but the fact remains that Wright does have a better resume and that has to count for something.

I also have question marks over Taylor, I personally haven't been all that impressed with him. I have also stated at least twice in this thread that I think there is a possibility that Mundine could outwork him over the distance because of the fact he gasses toward the back end of fights. But when it comes down to it (agree with it or not, I know I don't) Taylor is the champ and he has got the decision over top fighters. For this reason he deserves to start at least a slight favourite...

woe31 · Post by **woe31** » 21 Mar 2007, 23:05

Wright may well deserve to be the favorite based on past accomplishments, but once they are in the ring none of that matters. Stylistically, I think it would be a bad matchup for Wright based on Mundine's combination of size, speed, power and defense. Does that mean I think Choc will win? No, but I give him an excellent chance provided the drop in weight went well.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 22 Mar 2007, 12:10

Marlin wrote:
mad gear gang wrote:Have a look at Winky when he'd had 31 fights, which is what Mundine's had. He hadn't even lost to Vargas or Simon yet, you noggin! Though he had been drpped 5 times by super fast Vasquez.

If you want to look at it in terms of years as a pro, it's also revealing. Mundine's been a pro around 6 1/2 years. Winky, meanwhile, has been profession for 16 years! No wonder his body of work is a bit heavier, LMAO!

I also think Jermain "Bigger, Faster, Better" Taylor is overrated as an athlete. He gasses vs feather fisted junior middles, tires in super slow fights. And believe me ahtleticism is just about the only thing to recommend this immature, unfinished pro.

Mundine is a better athete. He has better balance, cleaner punching, better defense than 'Bad Decisions.' Some may want to say, he didn't demonstrate this qualities vs a Hopkins-level fighter, but Taylor didn't show much physical or technical gifts vs Ouma!

Why does everyone have to be a "nuthugger" that holds the opposite opinion to you? ppl have been praising Mundine as a talent to watch since the Green fight. No one can comprehend his name mentioned among Taylor and Winky, because some sods are desperate enough to heap "greatness" onto this pair.

Is it out of the question, that a very good fighter (Mundine) can beat a very good fighter (either of those 2 super legendary top 5 pound for pounders)?
You raise some good points here mate Mundine hasn't had as long to build his career but the fact remains that Wright does have a better resume and that has to count for something.

I also have question marks over Taylor, I personally haven't been all that impressed with him. I have also stated at least twice in this thread that I think there is a possibility that Mundine could outwork him over the distance because of the fact he gasses toward the back end of fights. But when it comes down to it (agree with it or not, I know I don't) Taylor is the champ and he has got the decision over top fighters. For this reason he deserves to start at least a slight favourite...

fair enough, controversy is something that goes with Mundine, and he'll always divide ppl. Until we see for sure, we won't know. That's what worries me. He's huge at home, and the only press he'll get away from home is 95% negative. He's probably burned his bridges in the UK and America.

I will concede, Taylor has been fighting opponents that were difficult style matchups. I think he'd be more well recieved if his promoter put him in with a classical stylist, because he does fight ppl who make him look bad. I think Taylor can learn to improve, but it may take a couple of years as was the case with James Toney. But guess who his next 2 opponents ar elikely to be - Cory Spinks, and RJJ. 2 guys that will spoil. Taylor needs 1 foe who will complement his style - when I see that I'll be more positive about him. But right now, I just see him as "under contruction," and vulnerable to a guy with Mundine's style and speed.

As to Winky, an excellent fighter. I felt he peaked in 1998, but he went over to South Africa late and the combo of Harry Simon and altitude wore him down. By the time he got recognition, circa 2004, he's shown signs of ageing. It's like some of his finest work was never appreciated, i.e. away from home clinics v Dodson and McKart 1st.

Whereas I like Mundine's style of boxing, and see that the horrible negativity that blighted him is vanishing, & it looks like he's peaking. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt - especially after dominating the very awkward Soliman. He's doing the kind of good things that I saw Winky doing in the late 90s, that hinted he could be something special.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 22 Mar 2007, 18:49

woe31 wrote:
Taki... wrote:Er, Taylor is bigger than Mundine, has better handspeed than Mundine, and is a match for Mundine in the power stakes... and I had Winky winning that fight.
I think there's a new Vicious thread in the off topic forum. Perhaps you should go there to bait him and let the people who have seen Mundine fight talk about him.

I've seen Mundine fight. And you're not talking about Mundine so much as kissing his arse.

woe31 · Post by **woe31** » 22 Mar 2007, 20:28

Taki... wrote:I've seen Mundine fight. And you're not talking about Mundine so much as kissing his arse.

My assumption that you hadn't seen Mundine fight (and I'm guessing you wouldn't have seen him fight for quite a whileif indeed you have seen him) is based on your comment that Taylor has better handspeed than Mundine which simply isn't true. It's funny you should mention arse in your post, because I beleive you are talking through yours if you seriously believe that.

Also, please point out an example of me kissing Mundine's arse if you don't mind.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 23 Mar 2007, 00:56

woe31 wrote:
Taki... wrote:I've seen Mundine fight. And you're not talking about Mundine so much as kissing his arse.
My assumption that you hadn't seen Mundine fight (and I'm guessing you wouldn't have seen him fight for quite a whileif indeed you have seen him) is based on your comment that Taylor has better handspeed than Mundine which simply isn't true. It's funny you should mention arse in your post, because I beleive you are talking through yours if you seriously believe that.

Also, please point out an example of me kissing Mundine's arse if you don't mind.

Well I've seen Taylor's last 4 fights and 2 of Mundine's last 5 and I can't say I thought Mundine's handspeed was superior, quite the contrary. As for Mundine arse kissing, well that seems to be a trend at the moment. If one dares to criticise Tony, even suggest he might not be a match for Winky Wright and Taylor at middleweight, one is assaulted by nuthuggers.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 23 Mar 2007, 02:14

Taki... wrote:
woe31 wrote:
Taki... wrote:I've seen Mundine fight. And you're not talking about Mundine so much as kissing his arse.
My assumption that you hadn't seen Mundine fight (and I'm guessing you wouldn't have seen him fight for quite a whileif indeed you have seen him) is based on your comment that Taylor has better handspeed than Mundine which simply isn't true. It's funny you should mention arse in your post, because I beleive you are talking through yours if you seriously believe that.

Also, please point out an example of me kissing Mundine's arse if you don't mind.
Well I've seen Taylor's last 4 fights and 2 of Mundine's last 5 and I can't say I thought Mundine's handspeed was superior, quite the contrary. As for Mundine arse kissing, well that seems to be a trend at the moment. If one dares to criticise Tony, even suggest he might not be a match for Winky Wright and Taylor at middleweight, one is assaulted by nuthuggers.

You are full of shit, Mundine has far quicker hands than Taylor if you had of seen his fights even his early ones you would know that. Its fair enough if you don't think much of him but he easily has the quickest hands in the 160-168 division.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 23 Mar 2007, 10:46

Ben Keilty wrote:
Taki... wrote:
woe31 wrote: My assumption that you hadn't seen Mundine fight (and I'm guessing you wouldn't have seen him fight for quite a whileif indeed you have seen him) is based on your comment that Taylor has better handspeed than Mundine which simply isn't true. It's funny you should mention arse in your post, because I beleive you are talking through yours if you seriously believe that.

Also, please point out an example of me kissing Mundine's arse if you don't mind.
Well I've seen Taylor's last 4 fights and 2 of Mundine's last 5 and I can't say I thought Mundine's handspeed was superior, quite the contrary. As for Mundine arse kissing, well that seems to be a trend at the moment. If one dares to criticise Tony, even suggest he might not be a match for Winky Wright and Taylor at middleweight, one is assaulted by nuthuggers.
You are full of shit, Mundine has far quicker hands than Taylor if you had of seen his fights even his early ones you would know that. Its fair enough if you don't think much of him but he easily has the quickest hands in the 160-168 division.

Nice argument, Ben! I didn't say 'I don't think much of him' merely that he seems to be getting very much overhyped by certain people-- off the back of beating Sam Soliman of all people! And if you want to post an example of Mundine's handspeed I'd happily revise my opinion.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 26 Mar 2007, 10:39

Isn't Mundine having a rematch with Siaca?

Your mental superior · Post by **Your mental superior** » 26 Mar 2007, 19:58

All I care about is I hope people stop seeking a rematch for Mundine against Kessler. Kessler beat Mundine with ease. Mundine has improved but he will need 10 chances to beat Kessler once.

woe31 · Post by **woe31** » 26 Mar 2007, 20:03

mad gear gang wrote:Isn't Mundine having a rematch with Siaca?

I hadn't heard that and doubt that is the direction he would be going in. The rematches that make sense at this stage are Green (monetary) and Kessler (revenge, real title opportunity). Siaca is now at 175 and appears to have faded since their first fight. Not the direction I'd be looking to take with Mundine in the best form of his life.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 26 Mar 2007, 21:00

Sir Psycho wrote:All I care about is I hope people stop seeking a rematch for Mundine against Kessler. Kessler beat Mundine with ease. Mundine has improved but he will need 10 chances to beat Kessler once.

I had Kessler 8-4 far from beating him with ease, Kesslers fight with Mundine would be by far the most competitive fight Kessler has been in.

R_jay · Post by **R_jay** » 26 Mar 2007, 21:15

Some seriously sad and misguided Mundine hate going on here.

Firstly, if you've bought up Mundine's loss to Ottke then leave this thread immediately. By bringing up a loss in the guy's 11th fight that happened 6 years ago you've already shown you're grasping at straws.

Mundine will beat Wright and Taylor, easily. I'd put money on it. I just go on what I see in the ring. In Wright I see a guy who's style will be unable to cope with the fast hands and feet of Mundine. Wright game revolves around that incredible boring block-block-block- counter routine, which is fine against guys who are content to punch his gloves all night. Mundine's fast hand will find gaps, and he was be able to step around Wright before Winky can counter. Mundine's size advantage negates Wright's jab, especially as Mundine has the quicker hands by far and will beat Wright to the punch.

Taylor is a harder fight, but he is without doubt the most overrated fighter in boxing. He has good athleticism for sure, but skill-wise he is definately below par. He's a huge specimen for 160 pounds, and he relies heavy on the size advantage. There is a reason he's fought more 154 pounders than most career junior-middleweights. If he were to move up his advantage in hand speed would be gone, as would his size advantage. Taylor is not a versatile fighter, if he cannot establish the jab and command the distance, and he would'nt be able to against the bigger, faster guy, he cannot win. Shit even Kassim Ouma, who is tiny and not much of a puncher at 154, was able to continually back Taylor up and push him around. Although that is not Mundine's style, its hard to envisage him not being able to manouvre Taylor around when required, and Taylor cannot fight going backwards.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 27 Mar 2007, 01:29

R_jay · Post by **R_jay** » 27 Mar 2007, 02:31

Nice response.

I'd like to hear how you think Winky would win that. He's smaller than Mundine. He's slower. He's older. Less power. Little offensive versatility. He's got nothing Mundine needs be worried about it. Its an easy win for Mundine. I said Mundine would get his ass beat by Kessler (and bet on it too), and was right. I said Mundine would easily destroy Soliman, and thats the way it went down. You can bet I'd make it 3 from 3 if that fight ever comes of.

I noticed someone ealier said Taylor had faster hands than Mundine....

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 27 Mar 2007, 03:31

R_jay wrote:I'd like to hear How you think Winky would win that. He's smaller than Mundine. He's slower. He's older. Less power. Little offensive versatility. He's got nothing Mundine needs be worried about it.

gotta agree, winky is a great fighter no doubt, but mundine is all wrong for him. you can bring up sahne mosley as proof wright can beat a fighter who is faster than he is, but mundine is not only faster, hes bigger and more powerful. so i agree lets hear how wright would beat mundine

i think pundit said it best " a good super middleweight should beat a suberb light middleweight"

R_jay · Post by **R_jay** » 27 Mar 2007, 04:22

Mosley was stuck on the outside trying to get past Winky's jab, in the exact same way Trinidad was. Wright kept both those guys on the outside eating punches and controlled the distance. How is he going to establish the jab against the bigger guy with a longer reach and faster hands in Mundine? Not going to happen. You take that jab away and Wright has nothing to offer offensively. He has'nt had a knockout in about 5 years, he's not going to turn brawler all of a sudden and take it to the trenches.