Who achieved more by age 35, Calzaghe or Hopkins?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Apr 2007, 05:09

After Hopkins dismissed Calzaghe as "just another good, not great European", I ask did Hopkins achieve more than Calzaghe by the age of 35?

If Calzaghe were to beat Kessler - and maybe one of the top challengers like Mundine or Froch or Bute - would that surpass anything Hopkins did at 160?

JC · Post by JC » 05 Apr 2007, 05:25

Well one big difference is at least Hopkins had the balls to fight Roy Jones, Ok he lost, but Calzaghe has never tested himself like that.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Apr 2007, 05:37

But really, Hopkins had nothing to lose apart from a padded record by the time he fought Jones in 1993.

Suppose when Hopkins HAD a lot to lose (ie "p4p #1") he never let the RJJ (2nd) fight happen, just as Calzaghe didn't. Wise career choice as Jones the bigger man, at the top of his game.

Nonetheless, the world doesn't revolve around Jones Jr, who has both gone out with a bang AND faded away...

Anyway, Hopkins had a chance to prove Calzaghe was "just another good, not great, Euro" yet turned down $3m for a fight with Carl Daniels.

So who did better up to the age of 35? Hopkins actually faced mandatories (but was seemingly going to lose the 1st Robert Allen fight before getting pushed out of the ring by the ref) and some were relatively tough, whereas Calzaghe faced a fairly dangerous bunch of ex champs and did unify with Lacy...Both would fight down to dirty opponents and make things more difficult than need be (Hops v Echols x2, Allen 1st two)...Calzaghe would choose more lower level foes, but Hops would fight a lot of raw or faded ppl...Both made lots of alphabet defenses, Hopkins totally obscure, Calzaghe on bigger shows in the UK...

btw, age 35 is before Hopkins got Trinidad, but I think he was 35 when he got Keith Holmes.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 05 Apr 2007, 05:43

B-Hop achieved more. How many world title fights has Calzaghe won? 2?

The WBOllocks is a clown reign, no rules, fight who you like.

B-Hop had too many quality wins by 35 to be out done by Calzaghe.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Apr 2007, 06:11

I don't know myself. By 35 Hopkins had Glen Johnson, Robert Allen a couple of times, Echols a couple of times, Mercado whom he beat after drawing with & best of all Keith Holmes in a unifier...Calzaghe's win over Lacy definitely outdoes Hops-Holmes, and Brewer, Mitchell, Reid, Eubank, Woodhall even past their prime are better than most of what Hopkins faced prior to 2001.

More and more, I'm starting to feel that Calzaghe's career defies categorisation. I mean, what the fvck is he? A dull title holder who doesn't want to fight anyone, then batters Lacy with huge combos...he just doesn't make any sense. He can beat good fighters with something to spare, but it more willing to take on the likes of Salem and Bika who are more trouble than they're worth. He can beat a good former titlist, but then fights ppl outside of the top 30...

As you say, how many world title fights has Calzaghe won? For me, certainly not 19, certainly not 2. I say, after Saturday, divide 20 by 2 and you have a fair #! It's worth noting that Hopkins was also in aphabet title fights and few were impressed by his stats, apart from his dedication and fitness to improve with each defense...

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Apr 2007, 06:15

Its a tough one to call. Difference primarily is that Hopkins didn't have the potential competition that Joe had... and still Hopkins fought guys who weren't yesterday's man - perhaps they were never was, but not known to be faded fighters. The likes of Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall and Eubank were know to be on the slide.

Hopkins didn't have much choice... yes, Joppy and Holmes were there - but Hopkins did eventually fight them when they were at their peaks later on anyway.

Also, it doesn't matter what Hopkins (a late starter) did at 35.... The fact is at 41 he's still fighting and from 35-41 DID have some excellent wins.

Now if Joe continues for several years and beats the likes of Taylor (Trinidad), Wright (De La Hoya), Kessler (Joppy and Holmes) and Hopkins (Tarver) then yep - he'll rank above BHop. But its not going to happen.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Apr 2007, 07:19

stujones wrote:Its a tough one to call. Difference primarily is that Hopkins didn't have the potential competition that Joe had... and still Hopkins fought guys who weren't yesterday's man - perhaps they were never was, but not known to be faded fighters. The likes of Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall and Eubank were know to be on the slide.

Hopkins didn't have much choice... yes, Joppy and Holmes were there - but Hopkins did eventually fight them when they were at their peaks later on anyway.

Also, it doesn't matter what Hopkins (a late starter) did at 35.... The fact is at 41 he's still fighting and from 35-41 DID have some excellent wins.

Now if Joe continues for several years and beats the likes of Taylor (Trinidad), Wright (De La Hoya), Kessler (Joppy and Holmes) and Hopkins (Tarver) then yep - he'll rank above BHop. But its not going to happen.

Just as we can blame Calzaghe for a lot that didn't happen, should we als blame Hopkins? Nothing was happening at middleweight without Don King. Yes he waited (or wasted) a good 5 years and ended up with King, after getting 2 big wins (Holmes and Tito) he basically pissed away three whole years because he was - either a) too much of a tight bastard to have King take a cut, or b) willing to fight mismatches for presumably decent money (Hakkar) while his contract ran out.

We all are very (too) familiar with Joe's case, but Bernard 'Post 9-11 Hero' hasn't exactly behaved like a legendary champion either. And in truth no one liked him until he beat DLH, a weight mismatch that boosted Hops' profile because he fought a boxer-as-star...

It was always all there in front of him for Hopkins - all he had to do was sign with King to get closer to fights with Quincy Taylor, William Joppy, Keith Holmes...

T.M.K · Post by **T.M.K** » 05 Apr 2007, 08:03

Bloody good question Mr Final Fight.

15 January 2000 - Hopkins Turns 35.

40 Fights: 36-2-1-1. USBA title (4 defences). Won IBF title at 3rd time of asking, and had made 10 defences. Defended against 3 sometime world-champs and 1 Interim title holder. Held title for almost 5 years.

-----

23 March 2007 - Calzaghe turns 35.

42 Fights: 42-0. British title (1 defence). Won WBO title and made 19 defences, including unifying with the IBF strap and making one joint-defence. Defended against 5 sometime world champions and 1 Interim champ. Held title for almost 10 years.

Interesting fact: Both men beat the "interim" champ of their own title, and both men beat their interim titlist twice

I'm sorry to anyone who may disagree, but I think Calzaghe gets the nod on this one...... however he has a lot to live up to if he fights until 40 and wants to be ahead of Hopkins.

best wishes

"T.M.K"

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 05 Apr 2007, 08:06

This one doesn't even get off the ground......Hopkins.

One is prepared to pit himself against the best out there, the other isn't.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Apr 2007, 08:27

THEBUTCH wrote:This one doesn't even get off the ground......Hopkins.

One is prepared to pit himself against the best out there, the other isn't.

Yeah, Hopkins dominated Glen Jonson and Calzaghe pulled out a couple of times.

That settles it!

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 05 Apr 2007, 08:28

Too true....and that's barely scratching the surface

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Apr 2007, 08:36

Honestly though, by the age of 35 I actually think Hopkins is behind Calzaghe. Bernard had a very poor division. Though I forgot to bring up Ottke, one huge mark against Joe.

Hopkins wasted his own prime with some bizarre career choices and any fighter who threatens to pull out of a bout over a referee comes across badly!

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 05 Apr 2007, 14:26

Joe really wanted Hopkins but Hopkins told him there were others to consider before Joe - Hopkins wanted the money fights and Calzaghe was not a big name in the US at the time so he stood no chance - I think both men had great careers up to 35 and I find it hard to say who achieved more.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 05 Apr 2007, 16:05

Very good careers low on elite scalps, up to the age 35.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 05 Apr 2007, 16:22

T.M.K wrote:Bloody good question Mr Final Fight.

15 January 2000 - Hopkins Turns 35.

40 Fights: 36-2-1-1. USBA title (4 defences). Won IBF title at 3rd time of asking, and had made 10 defences. Defended against 3 sometime world-champs and 1 Interim title holder. Held title for almost 5 years.

-----

23 March 2007 - Calzaghe turns 35.

42 Fights: 42-0. British title (1 defence). Won WBO title and made 19 defences, including unifying with the IBF strap and making one joint-defence. Defended against 5 sometime world champions and 1 Interim champ. Held title for almost 10 years.

Interesting fact: Both men beat the "interim" champ of their own title, and both men beat their interim titlist twice

I'm sorry to anyone who may disagree, but I think Calzaghe gets the nod on this one...... however he has a lot to live up to if he fights until 40 and wants to be ahead of Hopkins.

best wishes

"T.M.K"

that's what i think.

calzaghe didn't lose his pro debut either did he.

Loki · Post by **Loki** » 05 Apr 2007, 19:24

Both are legends and will be inducted into the IBHOF, so who cares.

If Bhop get's past Winky, which I'm confident he will, then they should face each other.

I think Calzaghe gives Hopkins fit's at this stage. Although Hopkins defence is one of the best of modern times, he has struggled against fast hands (RJJ). He won't be able to slip / block punches at that speed and quantity.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 05 Apr 2007, 20:23

Final Fight wrote:
THEBUTCH wrote:This one doesn't even get off the ground......Hopkins.

One is prepared to pit himself against the best out there, the other isn't.
Yeah, Hopkins dominated Glen Jonson and Calzaghe pulled out a couple of times.

That settles it!

No Offence but Calzaghe wouldn't of been hit by those slow combos Glen was hitting Woods with.

You constantly heard Glen making argh noises after each punch like he needed the toilet.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 05 Apr 2007, 20:50

Calzaghe for sure...good point Vicious!

Thing is I don't think Joe will go on for as long as Hopkins, despite his talks of fighting 'til 40.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 05 Apr 2007, 22:50

Is this some kind of joke.. ?? I never even heard of Bernard Hopkins until the Trinidad fight (and I wasn't just a casual fan)..

Calzaghe by far..

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Apr 2007, 05:10

Max Molyneux wrote:
Final Fight wrote:
THEBUTCH wrote:This one doesn't even get off the ground......Hopkins.

One is prepared to pit himself against the best out there, the other isn't.
Yeah, Hopkins dominated Glen Jonson and Calzaghe pulled out a couple of times.

That settles it!
No Offence but Calzaghe wouldn't of been hit by those slow combos Glen was hitting Woods with.

You constantly heard Glen making argh noises after each punch like he needed the toilet.

I was being sarcastic!