Well look who´s here!!!
Joining me at this the first of hopefully many such discussions....all the way from California....Mr. John Garfield....and wearing his Chicago suntan, one of our most prolific posters, Jaclem. Next to Jaclem we are
honored to have the man who can make fire fly, Mr. Terap. And until
someone offers me money, I am Simonpure.
Terap, I would like to pose this question to you first and then, in order, to
John and Jaclem: What can you tell me about the first professional fight that you ever saw? Can you remember the undercard? What was the arena like? And of course, when was it held?
Greybeard´s Round Table
Terap, it´s funny that you mention Virgil Akins being in the first fight you ever saw in person. The first television fight that I can remember seeing also featured a St. Louis boxer, the wonderful little Charley Reily. It was in 1950, on the Pabst Blue Ribbon Fights, and Reily took his second win over Glen Flanagan.
Another thing you said that really surprised me was that Bob Foster was from Washington, D.C. or at least fought out of that city. I never knew that and only associated him with New Mexico.
Jaclem, in case you have forgotten, a real Chicago suntan can only be acquired from the light over a "26" table or from the glow radiating from the dealer. On the other hand, maybe some things are better forgotten.
Another thing you said that really surprised me was that Bob Foster was from Washington, D.C. or at least fought out of that city. I never knew that and only associated him with New Mexico.
Jaclem, in case you have forgotten, a real Chicago suntan can only be acquired from the light over a "26" table or from the glow radiating from the dealer. On the other hand, maybe some things are better forgotten.
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john garfield
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 29 Dec 2001, 20:00
Re: Greybeard´s Round Table
Simonpure wrote:Well look who´s here!!!
Joining me at this the first of hopefully many such discussions....all the way from California....Mr. John Garfield....and wearing his Chicago suntan, one of our most prolific posters, Jaclem. Next to Jaclem we are
honored to have the man who can make fire fly, Mr. Terap. And until
someone offers me money, I am Simonpure.
Terap, I would like to pose this question to you first and then, in order, to
John and Jaclem: What can you tell me about the first professional fight that you ever saw? Can you remember the undercard? What was the arena like? And of course, when was it held?
I had no idea the greybeard roundtable had started, SP. I just happened to be scrolling this section
Everybody in my neighborhood was glued to the fights on the radio every Friday night, and we’d watch our friends and older brothers train at Beecher’s, but the first live fight I went to was with my dad for the return between Joe Louis and Billy Conn at Yankee Stadium, which I think was in 46’.
What sticks in my mind is: it was sort of a dull affair, except for the drama of their history together and what might happen.
But, the round-card person had some difficulty with the 8th round card, and my dad remarked, “This is the round Conn is getting knocked up-side down.” And sure enough…
It wasn’t that exciting a fight… but it was thrilling to be there.
i was raised by my grandparents and my grandfather had followed boxing from his youth..he had seen Bob Fitzsimmons for one..i don't recall the others because when i was little i didn't pay that much attention. i did pay attention though, to the radio when joe louis fought and i can remember that we sat right up with our ears next to the radio...for some reason..the drama i suppose...although we could have heard it just as well from our usual radio seating. anyway, i remember most specifically the max schmeling fights and the one with tony galento. The fight films came to the movie theatres almost immediately afterward, and grandpa and i went to them. as i got older i got into the friday night fights on radio...beau jack, ike williams,...all the guys who fought then.
The first fight i saw live from ringside was at music hall in cincinnati in the sports arena...used for boxing and wrestling. the date was may 3, 1948. the main event was archie moore vs. oakland billy smith. smith had become something of a local favorite after a couple of fights there. he was in the top ten and of course moore was around one or two...ezzard charles had moved into the heavies by that time. It was a good fight. smith had held moore to a draw about a year earlier. this time moore won, unanimous decision. that fight convinced me that ezzard charles was going to beat joe walcott when they fought for the vacant title. i figured anyone who could beat this guy moore three times..and the most recently by a knockout could beat anybody in the two heaviest divisions.
the semi final was lloyd gibson, local and ezzard's main sparring partner and an out of town fighter whose name i don't remember. a guy named joe kelly, also from oakland and billy smith's stable ...a lightweight...i checked his record later and saw that he was one of those professional four and six round fighters that used to be around..a lot of fights..a lot of losses and a number of wins. he was also a wild and dirty fighter,and i saw him later in other fights and he never changed that style.
the fights and the whole atmosphere..the noise, the crowd...a lot of whom looked like type casting of audiences in boxing movies...the ringside betting ....and i was hooked.
i knew ezzard charles to say hello to...he always said hello back....as his fiance and wife to be gladys gartrell lived a half block away from me,and her brother was in some of my classes at school. when i saw his buick (later he drove a cadillaco) turn the corner outside my house i found a reason to rush over and "visit" with joe.
he became my favorite fighter, and in later years when I got to know his backers I saw their ...bootleg films, i guess you'd call them..of a lot of his fights when he was at his real peak as a light heavy...weighing 171 most of the time. those,. and fights i saw him in later..live..convinced me that he was one of the greatest fighters of all time ...an opinion i hold to this day.
He and joey maxim were the first boxing match held in the then new cincinnati gardens...a big sports arena. i knew he had beat maxim twice ealrier their careers, and i saw them fight again on tv later. of all their fights this was the closest. maxim outjabbed charles in the early rounds...and caused me a lot of bit fingernails, but then ezzard came on and took the later rounds. in interviews later in his life maxim always admitted charles was his superior, but he still maintained he won that one. I had ezzard winning by a thin margin.
later in that same year (1949) maxim fought gus lesnevich for the "american light heavyweight title"...gus had his world one to freddie mills.
this was in the same cincinnati gardens and maxim totally outboxed lesnevich. the big story about this fight was that the promoter (Sam Becker, owner of a clothing store and the city's biggest fight promoter) gauranteed lesnevich $50,000 for the fight...a huge sum i those days..and it made a big story in ring magazxine because the fight drew...almost to the dollar...a $50,000 gate...so it was a big loss.
(earlier he had offered as much as $75,000 to lesnevich to come to cincinnati and defend against ezzard, who was the number one contender. lesnevich's manager, joe vella said (paraphrased).."are you nuts. keeping the title is worth more than that ....and against this guy my man would get cut to pieces."
well..there are lot more stories...though it was not a big time fight town i did manage to see several champions and champions to be....ezzard, maxim, lesnevich, jimmy carter, the local bud smith who is forgotten now but was lightweight champion of the world (I've been promising myself to do a thread on him)......but i've used up too mcu space already and will save some for later topics.
i'm sure the other greybeards will enjoy some of these stories and i hope the younger fans read the stuff here too...if nothing else to see how much boxing has changed from the days when it was a major sport and top ten fighters fought each other....and had several fights a year...many just months apart.
The first fight i saw live from ringside was at music hall in cincinnati in the sports arena...used for boxing and wrestling. the date was may 3, 1948. the main event was archie moore vs. oakland billy smith. smith had become something of a local favorite after a couple of fights there. he was in the top ten and of course moore was around one or two...ezzard charles had moved into the heavies by that time. It was a good fight. smith had held moore to a draw about a year earlier. this time moore won, unanimous decision. that fight convinced me that ezzard charles was going to beat joe walcott when they fought for the vacant title. i figured anyone who could beat this guy moore three times..and the most recently by a knockout could beat anybody in the two heaviest divisions.
the semi final was lloyd gibson, local and ezzard's main sparring partner and an out of town fighter whose name i don't remember. a guy named joe kelly, also from oakland and billy smith's stable ...a lightweight...i checked his record later and saw that he was one of those professional four and six round fighters that used to be around..a lot of fights..a lot of losses and a number of wins. he was also a wild and dirty fighter,and i saw him later in other fights and he never changed that style.
the fights and the whole atmosphere..the noise, the crowd...a lot of whom looked like type casting of audiences in boxing movies...the ringside betting ....and i was hooked.
i knew ezzard charles to say hello to...he always said hello back....as his fiance and wife to be gladys gartrell lived a half block away from me,and her brother was in some of my classes at school. when i saw his buick (later he drove a cadillaco) turn the corner outside my house i found a reason to rush over and "visit" with joe.
he became my favorite fighter, and in later years when I got to know his backers I saw their ...bootleg films, i guess you'd call them..of a lot of his fights when he was at his real peak as a light heavy...weighing 171 most of the time. those,. and fights i saw him in later..live..convinced me that he was one of the greatest fighters of all time ...an opinion i hold to this day.
He and joey maxim were the first boxing match held in the then new cincinnati gardens...a big sports arena. i knew he had beat maxim twice ealrier their careers, and i saw them fight again on tv later. of all their fights this was the closest. maxim outjabbed charles in the early rounds...and caused me a lot of bit fingernails, but then ezzard came on and took the later rounds. in interviews later in his life maxim always admitted charles was his superior, but he still maintained he won that one. I had ezzard winning by a thin margin.
later in that same year (1949) maxim fought gus lesnevich for the "american light heavyweight title"...gus had his world one to freddie mills.
this was in the same cincinnati gardens and maxim totally outboxed lesnevich. the big story about this fight was that the promoter (Sam Becker, owner of a clothing store and the city's biggest fight promoter) gauranteed lesnevich $50,000 for the fight...a huge sum i those days..and it made a big story in ring magazxine because the fight drew...almost to the dollar...a $50,000 gate...so it was a big loss.
(earlier he had offered as much as $75,000 to lesnevich to come to cincinnati and defend against ezzard, who was the number one contender. lesnevich's manager, joe vella said (paraphrased).."are you nuts. keeping the title is worth more than that ....and against this guy my man would get cut to pieces."
well..there are lot more stories...though it was not a big time fight town i did manage to see several champions and champions to be....ezzard, maxim, lesnevich, jimmy carter, the local bud smith who is forgotten now but was lightweight champion of the world (I've been promising myself to do a thread on him)......but i've used up too mcu space already and will save some for later topics.
i'm sure the other greybeards will enjoy some of these stories and i hope the younger fans read the stuff here too...if nothing else to see how much boxing has changed from the days when it was a major sport and top ten fighters fought each other....and had several fights a year...many just months apart.
My friends, if there was ever a golden age in boxing I think we may have experienced it. Just look at the names coming up this early in our discussion: Joe Louis, Billy Conn, Archie Moore, Joey Maxim, Bob Foster,
Bud Smith, Oakland Billy Smith and Virgil Akins among others. So, allow me to add a few more.
In January 1948, just a few months before Jaclem saw his first fight, my dad and I drove 90-miles to Chicago to see Beau Jack stop Johnny Bratton in the 8th round. My clearest memories are of the announcement that Bratton´s jaw had been broken and Beau Jack wearing a bandage or wrap around one of his knees. He apparently had torn ligaments in an earlier fight, perhaps against Ike Williams. There was a good crowd in the Chicago Stadium as Beau Jack´s name still carried magic and this was his windy city debut. But the real buzz in the air was over the semi-final in which the Ohio middleweight Sam Baroudi floored the local favorite Bob Satterfield at least seven times before stopping him in the second or third round. All this happening while Satterfield knocked down Baroudi at least three times. I use the qualifier "at least" because the next day´s newspapers had differing accounts as well as everyone in attendance.
Another name that I remember from that card was a tremendous welterweight prospect from Omaha, Vince Foster. He scored an early knockout over his opponent and left a strong impression on everyone. Unfortunately, as with Sam Baroudi, he would die in a few short months.
Foster, who had a reputation as being pretty wild, was killed in a car or motorcycle accident in Nebraska.
The opening 4-rounder was between two other Ohio boxers, featherweights Eddie Marotta and Pat Iacobucci. Why these two fellows were fighting in Chicago, I couldn´t say. Marotta, however, had won the G.G. Tournament of Champions the previous year and was a known face.
Lastly, something else I will always remember about that night was the Stadium organist, Al Melgard, pumping away at "Good Night Ladies" as Satterfield left the ring. Great sense of humor, Al had.
Junp in here, sombody....Terap, John, Jaclem. I have questions for each of you but would like to see which direction you guys want to go.
Bud Smith, Oakland Billy Smith and Virgil Akins among others. So, allow me to add a few more.
In January 1948, just a few months before Jaclem saw his first fight, my dad and I drove 90-miles to Chicago to see Beau Jack stop Johnny Bratton in the 8th round. My clearest memories are of the announcement that Bratton´s jaw had been broken and Beau Jack wearing a bandage or wrap around one of his knees. He apparently had torn ligaments in an earlier fight, perhaps against Ike Williams. There was a good crowd in the Chicago Stadium as Beau Jack´s name still carried magic and this was his windy city debut. But the real buzz in the air was over the semi-final in which the Ohio middleweight Sam Baroudi floored the local favorite Bob Satterfield at least seven times before stopping him in the second or third round. All this happening while Satterfield knocked down Baroudi at least three times. I use the qualifier "at least" because the next day´s newspapers had differing accounts as well as everyone in attendance.
Another name that I remember from that card was a tremendous welterweight prospect from Omaha, Vince Foster. He scored an early knockout over his opponent and left a strong impression on everyone. Unfortunately, as with Sam Baroudi, he would die in a few short months.
Foster, who had a reputation as being pretty wild, was killed in a car or motorcycle accident in Nebraska.
The opening 4-rounder was between two other Ohio boxers, featherweights Eddie Marotta and Pat Iacobucci. Why these two fellows were fighting in Chicago, I couldn´t say. Marotta, however, had won the G.G. Tournament of Champions the previous year and was a known face.
Lastly, something else I will always remember about that night was the Stadium organist, Al Melgard, pumping away at "Good Night Ladies" as Satterfield left the ring. Great sense of humor, Al had.
Junp in here, sombody....Terap, John, Jaclem. I have questions for each of you but would like to see which direction you guys want to go.
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john garfield
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 29 Dec 2001, 20:00
memories of fighters
So many terrific names to see again, terap, SP, and jaclem. All bring back vivid memories.
I was friendly with Vince Martinez and trained with him at Stillman’s Gym and the 5th St. Gym in Miami Beach. And I have pictures with the two of us some where’s in my house that I haven’t seen for many years. They were color pix, and I’m sure they’re faded by now.
Vince was such a slick boxer-puncher, I was stunned to see him looking like a deer-in-the-headlights with Virgil Akins. I was really saddened to hear about his recent passing. All I can see is that big smile, and how generous he was with his encouragement.
I wasn’t a big admirer of Wallace “Bud” Smith, but it was, basically, his style. He had a very educated left jab, and won most of his fights that way; but he just wasn’t my cup of tea.
But, he showed what real fighters are made of when, I think, he actually beat the great Joe Brown, after he actually broke his hand in an early round, and pitched a shutout for the rest of the 15 rounds with just his left hand. To do that against Joe Brown-- vintage or not-- and escape those big bombs, says volumes about Smith; and for me, would have to be the high-water mark of his career.
I can’t say enough good things about “Old Bones,” Joe Brown. I loved watching him fight, and tried to copy him in the ring, even though it was totally unnatural for me. He had tons of losses. I don’t even know the whys and where fore’s of those, but he was one helluva fighter.
And so was Bratton on his best days. Beautiful style-- so natural and smooth…and a heart much bigger than his fragile body. I saw his fight with Charlie Fusari for the vacant welter title. Would that seesaw battle have fans on the edge of their seats now!
Jimmy Carter’s another overlooked fighter-- such a tight style and beautiful, short left hook-- like the 700 knockdowns he scored, almost killing Tommy Collins. How Jimmy Carter got beat by a billy goat like Paddy DeMarco still has me puzzled. But one of you has already alluded to the handcuffs on Virgil Akins; it’s pretty common knowledge that Carter was a mob owned fighter.
Another guy that was mentioned briefly on here was a welter from Minneapolis, Glen Flanagan. He had some high-profile wins, but I didn’t care much for his style. I felt similarly about all the Moyer brothers.
Most people just remember Frankie DePaula as a street hoodlum with a devastating punch. All I can remember in the gym was a good-natured kid, always horsing around.
He was as raw as they get, with little more than novice Golden Gloves skills, and even his punches didn’t look like much… but, Oh, THE AFFECT! Anything he hit guys with, it turned their legs to jelly. I was really shocked to hear about his murder. I’d heard all about his supposed racket involvements, but that was never the guy I saw in the gym.
I wrote earlier about how slick Bratton was, Rodrigo Valdez came out of the same mold-- such fluid combinations and natural talent. He deserves to be recognized as a much better fighter than people give him credit for.
It was always a big night out for my family when we all used to go to the Garden to watch Beau Jack. He was Gatti and every pressure fighter with a heart bigger than he was all rolled into one. He was a thrilling main event fighter. Years later, I used to see him training kids at the 5th St. Gym, and actually saw him at his shoe shine stand at the Fountainblue Hotel.
I made some money once betting against “Oakland” Billy Smith (At that time, he was campaigning under “Boardwalk” Billy Smith) and he was a prohibitive favorite to beat an unknown light heavy, Paul Andrews. I‘d seen Andrews spar at Stillman’s, and I knew what a tremendous puncher he was, and how nobody in the gym wanted any part of him. He was lean and raw-boned, and hit like Bob Foster.
But most fight fans knew nothing about him, and Smith was a huge favorite to win and be in line for a title shot.
Sure enough, Andrews ended it just as I thought. Over the years, I wished all of my other picks had turned out so well.
I was friendly with Vince Martinez and trained with him at Stillman’s Gym and the 5th St. Gym in Miami Beach. And I have pictures with the two of us some where’s in my house that I haven’t seen for many years. They were color pix, and I’m sure they’re faded by now.
Vince was such a slick boxer-puncher, I was stunned to see him looking like a deer-in-the-headlights with Virgil Akins. I was really saddened to hear about his recent passing. All I can see is that big smile, and how generous he was with his encouragement.
I wasn’t a big admirer of Wallace “Bud” Smith, but it was, basically, his style. He had a very educated left jab, and won most of his fights that way; but he just wasn’t my cup of tea.
But, he showed what real fighters are made of when, I think, he actually beat the great Joe Brown, after he actually broke his hand in an early round, and pitched a shutout for the rest of the 15 rounds with just his left hand. To do that against Joe Brown-- vintage or not-- and escape those big bombs, says volumes about Smith; and for me, would have to be the high-water mark of his career.
I can’t say enough good things about “Old Bones,” Joe Brown. I loved watching him fight, and tried to copy him in the ring, even though it was totally unnatural for me. He had tons of losses. I don’t even know the whys and where fore’s of those, but he was one helluva fighter.
And so was Bratton on his best days. Beautiful style-- so natural and smooth…and a heart much bigger than his fragile body. I saw his fight with Charlie Fusari for the vacant welter title. Would that seesaw battle have fans on the edge of their seats now!
Jimmy Carter’s another overlooked fighter-- such a tight style and beautiful, short left hook-- like the 700 knockdowns he scored, almost killing Tommy Collins. How Jimmy Carter got beat by a billy goat like Paddy DeMarco still has me puzzled. But one of you has already alluded to the handcuffs on Virgil Akins; it’s pretty common knowledge that Carter was a mob owned fighter.
Another guy that was mentioned briefly on here was a welter from Minneapolis, Glen Flanagan. He had some high-profile wins, but I didn’t care much for his style. I felt similarly about all the Moyer brothers.
Most people just remember Frankie DePaula as a street hoodlum with a devastating punch. All I can remember in the gym was a good-natured kid, always horsing around.
He was as raw as they get, with little more than novice Golden Gloves skills, and even his punches didn’t look like much… but, Oh, THE AFFECT! Anything he hit guys with, it turned their legs to jelly. I was really shocked to hear about his murder. I’d heard all about his supposed racket involvements, but that was never the guy I saw in the gym.
I wrote earlier about how slick Bratton was, Rodrigo Valdez came out of the same mold-- such fluid combinations and natural talent. He deserves to be recognized as a much better fighter than people give him credit for.
It was always a big night out for my family when we all used to go to the Garden to watch Beau Jack. He was Gatti and every pressure fighter with a heart bigger than he was all rolled into one. He was a thrilling main event fighter. Years later, I used to see him training kids at the 5th St. Gym, and actually saw him at his shoe shine stand at the Fountainblue Hotel.
I made some money once betting against “Oakland” Billy Smith (At that time, he was campaigning under “Boardwalk” Billy Smith) and he was a prohibitive favorite to beat an unknown light heavy, Paul Andrews. I‘d seen Andrews spar at Stillman’s, and I knew what a tremendous puncher he was, and how nobody in the gym wanted any part of him. He was lean and raw-boned, and hit like Bob Foster.
But most fight fans knew nothing about him, and Smith was a huge favorite to win and be in line for a title shot.
Sure enough, Andrews ended it just as I thought. Over the years, I wished all of my other picks had turned out so well.
great memories john...and it's leading me to working up some more of my own..inlcuding the thread on Wallace "Bud" Smith, whom I saw from early and late and whom I got to know.
You may be thinking of Carlos Ortiz pitching the shutout against Joe Brown with just his left jab. Smith fought Brown three times and lost each one...first a ten rounder, then a fifteen rounder for Smith's lightweight title, and then a successful defense against him with an eleven round kayo. In fact, it was Brown who had the busted right hand in the third fight, but kayoed Bud with it, at great pain to himself. Bud never won another fight after he defended his title successfully against Jimmy Carter...finished his career with nine straight losses...bu then, that belongs in the thread I'll work up.
Carter also lost to the mediocre Lauro Salas (the crowd was heard on tv chanting "handcuffs") as well as to DeMarco...both of whom he beat in rematches to win back his title. Both fights were preceded by "unusual" changes in the odds...in favor of the challengers. I saw him live before he won the title..against a tough journeyman named Jesse Underwood..and thought he was one of the most effective mechanics I'd seen...and that was before he proved to be so on his television appearances. (Also saw him beat Bud Smith...but again..later) Incredibly patient..subtle..often was giving a good going over to his opponent without it being obvious to most observers...and then went to work for the kayo. his late round kayo over the new flashy "wonder" George Araujo was a masterpiece.
terap has good info on Virgil Akins....and can probably tell us a lot about his fights with Don Jordan, who was a real nut case.
You may be thinking of Carlos Ortiz pitching the shutout against Joe Brown with just his left jab. Smith fought Brown three times and lost each one...first a ten rounder, then a fifteen rounder for Smith's lightweight title, and then a successful defense against him with an eleven round kayo. In fact, it was Brown who had the busted right hand in the third fight, but kayoed Bud with it, at great pain to himself. Bud never won another fight after he defended his title successfully against Jimmy Carter...finished his career with nine straight losses...bu then, that belongs in the thread I'll work up.
Carter also lost to the mediocre Lauro Salas (the crowd was heard on tv chanting "handcuffs") as well as to DeMarco...both of whom he beat in rematches to win back his title. Both fights were preceded by "unusual" changes in the odds...in favor of the challengers. I saw him live before he won the title..against a tough journeyman named Jesse Underwood..and thought he was one of the most effective mechanics I'd seen...and that was before he proved to be so on his television appearances. (Also saw him beat Bud Smith...but again..later) Incredibly patient..subtle..often was giving a good going over to his opponent without it being obvious to most observers...and then went to work for the kayo. his late round kayo over the new flashy "wonder" George Araujo was a masterpiece.
terap has good info on Virgil Akins....and can probably tell us a lot about his fights with Don Jordan, who was a real nut case.
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john garfield
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 29 Dec 2001, 20:00
Thanks for ironing out my confusion, jaclem, on the Bud Smith-Joe Brown fight.Jaclem wrote:great memories john...and it's leading me to working up some more of my own..inlcuding the thread on Wallace "Bud" Smith, whom I saw from early and late and whom I got to know.
You may be thinking of Carlos Ortiz pitching the shutout against Joe Brown with just his left jab. Smith fought Brown three times and lost each one...first a ten rounder, then a fifteen rounder for Smith's lightweight title, and then a successful defense against him with an eleven round kayo. In fact, it was Brown who had the busted right hand in the third fight, but kayoed Bud with it, at great pain to himself. Bud never won another fight after he defended his title successfully against Jimmy Carter...finished his career with nine straight losses...bu then, that belongs in the thread I'll work up.
Carter also lost to the mediocre Lauro Salas (the crowd was heard on tv chanting "handcuffs") as well as to DeMarco...both of whom he beat in rematches to win back his title. Both fights were preceded by "unusual" changes in the odds...in favor of the challengers. I saw him live before he won the title..against a tough journeyman named Jesse Underwood..and thought he was one of the most effective mechanics I'd seen...and that was before he proved to be so on his television appearances. (Also saw him beat Bud Smith...but again..later) Incredibly patient..subtle..often was giving a good going over to his opponent without it being obvious to most observers...and then went to work for the kayo. his late round kayo over the new flashy "wonder" George Araujo was a masterpiece.
terap has good info on Virgil Akins....and can probably tell us a lot about his fights with Don Jordan, who was a real nut case.
Could Smith's one-handed performance have been against Jimmy Carter? I could have sworn that Smith beat a quality fighter with just his left. But, maybe the years have just scrambled my brain, and all the fighters are running together on me.
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Tyson KTFO 3 Times
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 157
- Joined: 08 Jul 2002, 11:51
Well, Terap, if my dad was still alive he could talk to you all day about Young Sthuly, he was so proud of having known him. Unfortunately, my memories are not that great....I´m not even sure about the spelling of his name....but I´ll tell you what I do remember.
Sthuly had a beautiful build, was an all around athlete, and was particularly adept at swimming. He was comfortable in his hometown, Kewanee, and often spent time there when not on the road, relaxing and working out at a local gym. He was a very smooth boxer with a tremendous left jab, but not much punch. He must have been a crowd-pleaser to have fought the level of competition he did and still most often lose.
I believe Young Sthuly died from earlier injuries suffered when he dove into a swimming pool. I could be way off about this, but I know he was involved in a diving accident somewhere back there.
John Garfield, I wonder if you could tell us what you know about someone from your Florida days. Jaclem brought up his name the other day in reference to a bout with Ray Robinson, and that would be Bobby Dykes.
I have to admit that I never saw Dykes fight in person or on TV, but I do know a little about his two visits to Chicago against Robinson and Johnny Bratton....and that he wore long sideburns in a crew cut era. Also, I read someplace recently that he was a southpaw. Is that true?
Sthuly had a beautiful build, was an all around athlete, and was particularly adept at swimming. He was comfortable in his hometown, Kewanee, and often spent time there when not on the road, relaxing and working out at a local gym. He was a very smooth boxer with a tremendous left jab, but not much punch. He must have been a crowd-pleaser to have fought the level of competition he did and still most often lose.
I believe Young Sthuly died from earlier injuries suffered when he dove into a swimming pool. I could be way off about this, but I know he was involved in a diving accident somewhere back there.
John Garfield, I wonder if you could tell us what you know about someone from your Florida days. Jaclem brought up his name the other day in reference to a bout with Ray Robinson, and that would be Bobby Dykes.
I have to admit that I never saw Dykes fight in person or on TV, but I do know a little about his two visits to Chicago against Robinson and Johnny Bratton....and that he wore long sideburns in a crew cut era. Also, I read someplace recently that he was a southpaw. Is that true?
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john garfield
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 29 Dec 2001, 20:00
bobby dykes
John Garfield, I wonder if you could tell us what you know about someone from your Florida days. Jaclem brought up his name the other day in reference to a bout with Ray Robinson, and that would be Bobby Dykes.
I have to admit that I never saw Dykes fight in person or on TV, but I do know a little about his two visits to Chicago against Robinson and Johnny Bratton....and that he wore long sideburns in a crew cut era. Also, I read someplace recently that he was a southpaw. Is that true?[/quote]
I only had a nodding acquaintance with Bobby Dykes, Sp, but he did have that old-boy- country-singer look, with the long side burns. From time to time, I would see him spar and in Al Netlow’s bar in South Miami, where many of the fighters went to relax. It was like the Florida version of the Neutral Corner Bar, across from Stillman’s in New York.
Al Netlow fought Ray Robinson back in the early 40’s, and there were pictures of him with Robinson all over the bar.
After he retired, Dykes become a prominent insurance man in Miami. I believe he had an office in Coral Gables.
As a fighter, Dykes was a southpaw and a frustrating technician --rarely led, but had a good pumping right jab and appeared to be even taller than he was. Maybe it was the long arms. He must have been as big as Monzon, without the power.
He was frustratingly good, and not at all a crowd pleaser. He seemed to nullify good fighters’ abilities.
He fought most of his fights in and around Miami, but he criss-crossed the country and fought the very best out there, but he wouldn’t set your pulse racing knowing he was in the main event. He generated the same kind of excitement as ErnieTerrell.
I have to admit that I never saw Dykes fight in person or on TV, but I do know a little about his two visits to Chicago against Robinson and Johnny Bratton....and that he wore long sideburns in a crew cut era. Also, I read someplace recently that he was a southpaw. Is that true?[/quote]
I only had a nodding acquaintance with Bobby Dykes, Sp, but he did have that old-boy- country-singer look, with the long side burns. From time to time, I would see him spar and in Al Netlow’s bar in South Miami, where many of the fighters went to relax. It was like the Florida version of the Neutral Corner Bar, across from Stillman’s in New York.
Al Netlow fought Ray Robinson back in the early 40’s, and there were pictures of him with Robinson all over the bar.
After he retired, Dykes become a prominent insurance man in Miami. I believe he had an office in Coral Gables.
As a fighter, Dykes was a southpaw and a frustrating technician --rarely led, but had a good pumping right jab and appeared to be even taller than he was. Maybe it was the long arms. He must have been as big as Monzon, without the power.
He was frustratingly good, and not at all a crowd pleaser. He seemed to nullify good fighters’ abilities.
He fought most of his fights in and around Miami, but he criss-crossed the country and fought the very best out there, but he wouldn’t set your pulse racing knowing he was in the main event. He generated the same kind of excitement as ErnieTerrell.
Dykes made a lot of friends in Chicago before and after his bout with Ray Robinson. I remember him being interviewed by the press several times.
I guess the fight itself wasn´t much as Robinson outboxed him throughout.
However, Dykes did stagger Robinson in one of the early rounds. Maybe that was the reason one of the judges scored the fight a draw. More likely it was the upcoming fight with Johnny Bratton. There was really expectation of that being a clássic match between top contenders. With Dykes´performance against Sugar Ray and Bratton coming off of two quick knockouts against Lester Felton and Gabey Ferland everyone was looking for a great fight. Unfortunately for Dykes, Bratton dropped the hammer on him and it was all over within a couple of minutes. Dykes never fought in Chicago again.
I guess the fight itself wasn´t much as Robinson outboxed him throughout.
However, Dykes did stagger Robinson in one of the early rounds. Maybe that was the reason one of the judges scored the fight a draw. More likely it was the upcoming fight with Johnny Bratton. There was really expectation of that being a clássic match between top contenders. With Dykes´performance against Sugar Ray and Bratton coming off of two quick knockouts against Lester Felton and Gabey Ferland everyone was looking for a great fight. Unfortunately for Dykes, Bratton dropped the hammer on him and it was all over within a couple of minutes. Dykes never fought in Chicago again.
Last edited by Simonpure on 03 Oct 2003, 06:25, edited 1 time in total.
An interesting sidelight to Johnny Bratton´s knockout of Bobby Dykes is that one year later they were listed as number one and two contenders for Kid Gavilan´s welterweight title.
Thanks to Tomato-Can for bringing this up via his "Old Ring Magazine Rating" post.
Terap, I noticed that Dykes´draw with Holly Minns was held in Washington, D. C. Is there any story there?
Thanks to Tomato-Can for bringing this up via his "Old Ring Magazine Rating" post.
Terap, I noticed that Dykes´draw with Holly Minns was held in Washington, D. C. Is there any story there?
Jaclem, John, Terap....here is a two-part question that I would like to toss out. Which is the most exciting fight that you ever saw live? The fight that left you talking about it for years. And secondly, who was the boxer that disappointed you the most? Someone you followed and thought might go all the way but....for reasons known or unknown....fell by the wayside.
Just noticed on a post by Enrique....boxers who did well after retiring, etc...that Boddy Dykes apparently did very well indeed, prospering from the insurance business, as John mentioned, and enjoying the Florida lifestyle. After 142 fights, I would say he deserves it.
Just noticed on a post by Enrique....boxers who did well after retiring, etc...that Boddy Dykes apparently did very well indeed, prospering from the insurance business, as John mentioned, and enjoying the Florida lifestyle. After 142 fights, I would say he deserves it.
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john garfield
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 29 Dec 2001, 20:00
hero worship
Since we all go back apiece, and the names will be familiar to you, I thought you might enjoy this boxing related story.
As a kid, I had a buddy named Sal, who was a tough street fighter and gave it a shot as a pro heavyweight. No amateur experience--just balls and a big punch.
Sal worshiped at the shrine of Joe DiMaggio; everything out of his mouth was: Joe DiMaggio this and Joe DiMaggio that, and he was the best Italian athlete ever...and blah, blah, blah. It never stopped.
Every day Sal took a pounding sparring, and it was worse in the few prelims that he got.
When he packed-it-in, Sal opened an Italian restaurant in Queens, named after his idol: "Jolt'n Joe's." Every inch inside was covered with pictures and paintings of DiMaggio, newspaper clippings about him, and the wallpaper was all Yankee pinstripes.
For years, the guys would go in Jolt'n Joe's for dinner every week, but you could hardly eat, with all Sal's DiMaggio stories.
I had a friend who did some business with people connected to DiMaggio, and I told him all about Sal and what a thrill it would be for him if DiMaggio would come to his restaurant.
Not too long after, the guy calls me back and says Joe will do it this Friday at 8 P.M.
So, I round up all our friends, and we make it our business to be in the restaurant early. We couldn't wait to see Sal's reaction when DiMaggio came in the door.
We all made small talk...but it was killing us. Finally, the door opens and there's DiMaggio--"Joe D," in person-- as dapper as you could imagine in a double-breasted sharkskin suit.
I thought Sal was going to have a coronary. His mouth dropped open; his eyes went wide. He practically leaped over to where DiMaggio was: "Joe...Joe! This is the greatest dream of my life! I never thought I would ever meet you. Look... your pictures are every place!... You've been my hero since I was kid!"
We had to fight back the tears.
"Sit! sit! Joe. I make you something personally" Sal almost kissed us as he headed into the kitchen.
Joe was seated and waited. We were feeling wonderful to see Sal's dream come true.
When Sal came out and placed the food on the table, he said to Joe, with his eyes glistening: "My son feels the same way about you that I do, Joe. Could you autograph this menu... to Paulie?"
DiMaggio looked up and said, "I get $5 for that."
All the air was sucked out of the room.
Sal looked at him... not believing what he heard, then hurled himself on top of DiMaggio, trying to strangle him, yelling, "YOU MISERABLE MUTHA fornicator!
It took all of us to pull him off DiMaggio. Sal kept trying to dive back at him. We were barely able to get DiMaggio out of there and back into his car.
Be careful what you wish for.
As a kid, I had a buddy named Sal, who was a tough street fighter and gave it a shot as a pro heavyweight. No amateur experience--just balls and a big punch.
Sal worshiped at the shrine of Joe DiMaggio; everything out of his mouth was: Joe DiMaggio this and Joe DiMaggio that, and he was the best Italian athlete ever...and blah, blah, blah. It never stopped.
Every day Sal took a pounding sparring, and it was worse in the few prelims that he got.
When he packed-it-in, Sal opened an Italian restaurant in Queens, named after his idol: "Jolt'n Joe's." Every inch inside was covered with pictures and paintings of DiMaggio, newspaper clippings about him, and the wallpaper was all Yankee pinstripes.
For years, the guys would go in Jolt'n Joe's for dinner every week, but you could hardly eat, with all Sal's DiMaggio stories.
I had a friend who did some business with people connected to DiMaggio, and I told him all about Sal and what a thrill it would be for him if DiMaggio would come to his restaurant.
Not too long after, the guy calls me back and says Joe will do it this Friday at 8 P.M.
So, I round up all our friends, and we make it our business to be in the restaurant early. We couldn't wait to see Sal's reaction when DiMaggio came in the door.
We all made small talk...but it was killing us. Finally, the door opens and there's DiMaggio--"Joe D," in person-- as dapper as you could imagine in a double-breasted sharkskin suit.
I thought Sal was going to have a coronary. His mouth dropped open; his eyes went wide. He practically leaped over to where DiMaggio was: "Joe...Joe! This is the greatest dream of my life! I never thought I would ever meet you. Look... your pictures are every place!... You've been my hero since I was kid!"
We had to fight back the tears.
"Sit! sit! Joe. I make you something personally" Sal almost kissed us as he headed into the kitchen.
Joe was seated and waited. We were feeling wonderful to see Sal's dream come true.
When Sal came out and placed the food on the table, he said to Joe, with his eyes glistening: "My son feels the same way about you that I do, Joe. Could you autograph this menu... to Paulie?"
DiMaggio looked up and said, "I get $5 for that."
All the air was sucked out of the room.
Sal looked at him... not believing what he heard, then hurled himself on top of DiMaggio, trying to strangle him, yelling, "YOU MISERABLE MUTHA fornicator!
It took all of us to pull him off DiMaggio. Sal kept trying to dive back at him. We were barely able to get DiMaggio out of there and back into his car.
Be careful what you wish for.