Terry O'Connor

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Post by glittermonkey »

MightyWarrior wrote:A crap ref, needs to go back to school. His timing sucks, yank was in no real danger. Didn't he mess up the Froch stopage as well?

No wonder FW was fuming at such an uneccesary hometown looking decision, after the earlier blowouts

How many punches did his three stars take tonight, Joe, Amir and Enzo? Two or three total?

HBO must have been mightily impressed! HOW much did that cost again??

Not a whisper of complaint from the ITV commentary boys either.
Sums it all up nicely I feel. Still, the crowd got what they paid for didn't they? :roll:
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Post by HomicideHenry »

Peter was never in any danger of going down, re watch the tapes.
Manfredo's strategy was to let Cal tire himself out; he did the same against Pemberton and was rolling with and blocking the punches on the ropes; Pemberton flurried for 20 seconds, then had to catch a breather, and Manfredo nailed him.
And if you think he was never going to win to begin with, why fight the fights??
He was fooling himself that's why :lol:

As far as being in no danger, I agree with Emmanuel Stewart. The stoppage only robbed Calzaghe of a knockout victory. Manfredo may not have been hurt, but let's face it, he couldn't retaliate against Calzaghe's lightning fast combinations. He'd eventually get caught. And...again, who ever expected to really see a real fight out of it?

You all got suckered in to watching the crock. And I feel sorry for anyone who paid to see the circus. Manfredo had no business being in there, yet 35,000 paid to see it. Makes me re-think if the English are 'smarter' than us 'hillbilly Americans'.
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Post by Autobarn »

Hey, check out the Lacy-Reid fight. They weren't being particularly civil in Florida. Even the promoters apparently had it in for Reid, booking Lacy in the same hotel or something. What I recall from the coverage was a bunch of nob Yanks with a chip on their shoulder who were incenced that someone would even dare go over there and attempt to take their belt.

Smart arses even managed to ruin the fight, giving drama queen Reid a persecution complex (ala Ottke) causing him to foul his way through the fight. That was an atrocious night, everyone was in on it incl the ref...That disgusted me.

Lacy getting annihilated by Calzaghe was the most satisying thing ever, I can tell you.


***
Being in Cardiff certainly helped Joe pull in 35,000. Not to mention some showings on terrestrial TV, folk hero status post Lacy, and the event that last night was. Let's face it, Contender gets ppl watching, whether in the US (hence HBO's involvement) or the UK. Stallone whimsy made this possible, something that's been plaguing screens since his shitty ROCKY films.
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Post by TerribleTerry »

Final Fight wrote:Hey, check out the Lacy-Reid fight. They weren't being particularly civil in Florida. Even the promoters apparently had it in for Reid, booking Lacy in the same hotel or something. What I recall from the coverage was a bunch of nob Yanks with a chip on their shoulder who were incenced that someone would even dare go over there and attempt to take their belt.
Reid was forced to train down by the pool in the hotel - no gym facilities were made available to him as the visiting fighter..
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Post by jonp »

hype7 wrote:
HomicideHenry wrote:
Watch Willie Pep winning a round without firing back once !
One of the old myths of boxing @ Willie Pep winning a round without throwing a punch.
Not a myth but a reality; it hapened !!
HomicideHenry wrote:But even if he did, he would only have won it because nobody was able to land a single blow on him. Was a piss poor example to compare the Manfredo-Calzaghe fight to old Willo-The-Wisp, considering Calzaghe threw and landed quadruple what Manfredo threw and landed.

Always wondered about this who was it actualy against and what round was it? have we got the scorecards and is there a film of the fight?
You hear this one a lot but surely there would be a bit more proof?
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Post by pundit »

I thought the stoppage was OK. Manfredo didn't fight back, whether he was hurt or not. The ref had to get the bum out of the ring, and this is what he did. 20 secs earlier or later -- or even another round -- wouldn't have made any difference.
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Post by m1kee50 »

jonp wrote:
hype7 wrote:
HomicideHenry wrote: One of the old myths of boxing @ Willie Pep winning a round without throwing a punch.
Not a myth but a reality; it hapened !!
HomicideHenry wrote:But even if he did, he would only have won it because nobody was able to land a single blow on him. Was a piss poor example to compare the Manfredo-Calzaghe fight to old Willo-The-Wisp, considering Calzaghe threw and landed quadruple what Manfredo threw and landed.

Always wondered about this who was it actualy against and what round was it? have we got the scorecards and is there a film of the fight?
You hear this one a lot but surely there would be a bit more proof?
seconded - you want to say it happened - well when? where? against who? im surprised the resident pedants havent jumped all over this sooner tbh
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Post by hype7 »

They didn't jump on it because they know the truth or if not they know how to use google; it took me 5 seconds to find the article:



Willie Pep won a round without landing a punch

By B. R. Bearden

In the annuls of boxing there are many "urban myths", tall tales, and outright lies told about the fighters of the past. Did heavyweight William Harrison Dempsey really call himself "Jack" in honor of the great middleweight Jack "The Nonpareil" Dempsey? Did Dempsey have plaster-of-Paris on his hands the day he beat Jess Willard within an inch of his life? Did Joe Louis once give a shiny new half-dollar to a goggle-eyed young fan named Rocky Marciano? Did Ali once draw the smallest attendance for a world heavyweight title fight in the history of the sport? Was Harry Greb really blind in one eye the last 5 years of his career? And did Willie Pep, the Will o' the wisp, really win a round without landing a single punch?

Pep was likened to a tap dancer in boxing gloves. He was fast, he was agile, he was graceful. A Pep fight resembled a ballroom dance with one partner a masterful Fred Astaire and the other apparently lacking a single dance lesson. He was called the Will o' the Wisp because, like that illusive phenomenon, he was almost impossible to lay hands upon.By the age of 20 he had won 54 fights in a row without a loss before taking the featherweight title from future HOF fighter Chalky Wright in a bout in which he never once hurt Wright, but played him like a violin. More precisely, a Stradivarius.Willie would continue to win, losing only once in his next 49 fights (to future Hall of Famer Sammy Angot), before he would be matched against a Top Ten fighter with a 25-2 record named Jackie Graves on July 25th, 1945 in Minneapolis. Graves was a southpaw, and perhaps a sportswriter had hinted that it might cause Pep a problem. Or perhaps Willie was just in the mood to show them something they'd never seen before. Whatever his motivation,prior to the start of the bout, Pep would make a prediction to rival any later made by Muhammed Ali; he would win a round without throwing a single punch.

Not only that, but he would tell them up-front just which round to watch for it; round number three. Bert Sugar said of the audacious feat: "Pep tipped off a few friendly sportswriters that he would not throw a punch in anger in the third round.... Pep moved; Pep switched to southpaw, mocking Graves; Pep danced; Pep weaved; Pep spun Graves around and around again; Pep gave head feints, shoulder feints, foot feints, and feint feints. But Pep never landed a punch." The crowd at ringside sat in spellbound awe as Pep put on perhaps the greatest three minute demonstration on the art of boxing ever witnessed. In just 180 seconds he joined the ranks of those who had done some legendary act to fulfill a fearless prediction; the called-shot of Babe Ruth, the "We're gonna win, I guarantee it!" bravado of Joe Namath, and "They all will fall, in the round I call" predictions of Ali.Sportswriter Don Riley, who was ringside and forewarned of Pep's plan for the third round, said, "It was an amazing display of defensive boxing skill so adroit, so cunning, so subtle that the roaring crowd did not notice Pep's tactics were completely without offense. He made Jim Corbett's agility look like a broken down locomotive. He made even Sugar Ray Robinson's fluidity look like cement hardening. Never has boxing seen such perfection!" He had fought the round without throwing a punch, but had he won it? Was his display so mesmerizing that even the keen eyed judges were beguiled? Pep knocked Graves down 9 times, ending the fight in the 8th round via TKO, but it wasn't the victory the ringside press were excited about; it was the score cards of the judges. When the cards were presented, there it was in black and white; Willie Pep had won the third round, the punchless round, on all three cards. The Will o' the Wisp had given boxing another legendary moment.

Oh, as to those other "did it happens?", here's the run down: Jack Dempsey did name himself after The Nonpareil Dempsey, he didn't put Plaster-of-Paris on his hands (an impossibility sworn to under oath by the inventor of the product), Louis did give a half-dollar to Marciano and another kid as they followed him around at a boxing show where he was guest announcer, Ali-Listion II drew only 2434 fans (the least ever), and Greb was blinded in one eye by Kid Norfolk in 1921, yet kept it a secret and fought successfully the final 5 years of his career and his life. And, of course, Willie Pep did win a round without landing a single punch



http://www.eastsideboxing.com/williepep.html
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Post by Autobarn »

pundit wrote:I thought the stoppage was OK. Manfredo didn't fight back, whether he was hurt or not. The ref had to get the bum out of the ring, and this is what he did. 20 secs earlier or later -- or even another round -- wouldn't have made any difference.
Manfredo was completely useless and I can't recall him landing more than 2 shots the entire fight.
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Post by Ally-M1 »

I believe because Mafredo offered nothing back, The Referee took it upon himself to stop the fight and ensure Manfredo was ok...

I don't think O'Connor was able to tell the state of Manfredo... Manfredo was WAY out of his depth and he didn't throw anything back (24 punches unanswered) and it was an act of mercy on O'Connor's part...

Granted Manfredo wasn't hurt much but better safe than sorry... I feel that with the bad press boxing brings with sustained ring beatings and deaths, O'Connor did the right thing and stop it - it could've ended up worse had it continued and Manfredo could've been really hurt later in the fight from a sustained barrage...

Furthermore, you can't expect NOT to be stopped if you don't throw anything back for 24 or so punches - what the hell did Manfredo expect?!

No, O'Connor makes mistakes granted, but this time, this stoppage was for the best and saved Manfredo from potentially serious injury, he shouldn't have been in there.
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Post by hype7 »

Ally-M1 wrote:
Furthermore, you can't expect NOT to be stopped if you don't throw anything back for 24 or so punches - what the hell did Manfredo expect?!

No, O'Connor makes mistakes granted, but this time, this stoppage was for the best and saved Manfredo from potentially serious injury, he shouldn't have been in there.
Manfredo hadn't been buzzed at any moment in the previous 7 minutes and was defending himself ; NO punches were landing.

Now, for the sake of the argument, if you say this was stopped because it was a mismatch, why then make the fight ? Manfredo was challenging for the TITLE...it was a TITLE fight....on PPV nonethless.....with thousands watching..

How do you say to these folks having tunned in " Sorry, even though we organised this match, we're stopping it right there, the kid has not a chance and he might get seriously hurt, even though no puches landed yet..."??
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Post by Ally-M1 »

Indeed... Though PUNCHES DID LAND, just not with much venom...

However, it is clear Manfredo was only going to get thrashed more and more as the fight went on and O'Connor did the merciful act...

How would say, sorry ITV fans, we are witnessing a horrendous beating here followed by, Manfredo has to be taken to hos.. I need not continue...

Boxing has been plagued by brutal endings and I for one, am glad this did not end up like that... As with Enzo's fight, Joe had a man in front of him that should not have been there, at least Manfredo lasted two more rounds than the hapless Gunn...

We as fight fans want to see as much action as we can (I was dissapointed there was so many mismatches and early endings) but not at the exspense of someone's well being... He might not have been overly hurt at that point but, it would have been a big risk to let him sustain a potentially bigger beating than Lacy took...

That said, we all have our thoughts on this and some will agree, some wont - that's boxing, always provoking a great debate :box:
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Post by Shirow »

The point is there is a world away from a sustained beating (Calzaghe v Lacy for example) and pulling a fighter out because he's just not good enough and a sustained beating could well be forthcoming.

If that's the case then the fight should have been stopped immediately after the first bell before the fighters had met in the centre of the ring or not been made at all.

If a fighter isn't getting busted up i think 2 or 3 totally uncompetitve rounds should pass before a fighter is pulled out after reminders to the fighter and corner that this is on the way if he can't step things up.

I'd love to see boxing matches which were all 50/50 but due to the politics of the sport that we never happen and besides if it did the best fighters would get very few bouts.
Last edited by Shirow on 11 Apr 2007, 17:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by silkov »

At the end of the day if a guy is trapped against the ropes taking punches and not punching back then theres always the danger that the ref will step in... its a bit rich FW being so pissed at O'Connor... its not Terrys fault that Manfredo fought such a crap fight...
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Post by jonny »

total mismatch. end of
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Post by silkov »

jonny wrote:total mismatch. end of
Exactly, and the fault for that lays with the bloody promoter for making yet another mismatch...
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Post by stujones »

Another, in my opinion to the Terry O Connor masterclass refereeng you can add is.

Matt Skelton vs John McDermmott.

I know John went down three times, but I'm not sure any of the KD's were 100% legit and I don't think he was hurt at all in any of the KD... all Skelton did basic was hit and then lean.
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Post by m1kee50 »

hype7 wrote:They didn't jump on it because they know the truth or if not they know how to use google; it took me 5 seconds to find the article:



Willie Pep won a round without landing a punch

By B. R. Bearden

In the annuls of boxing there are many "urban myths", tall tales, and outright lies told about the fighters of the past. Did heavyweight William Harrison Dempsey really call himself "Jack" in honor of the great middleweight Jack "The Nonpareil" Dempsey? Did Dempsey have plaster-of-Paris on his hands the day he beat Jess Willard within an inch of his life? Did Joe Louis once give a shiny new half-dollar to a goggle-eyed young fan named Rocky Marciano? Did Ali once draw the smallest attendance for a world heavyweight title fight in the history of the sport? Was Harry Greb really blind in one eye the last 5 years of his career? And did Willie Pep, the Will o' the wisp, really win a round without landing a single punch?

Pep was likened to a tap dancer in boxing gloves. He was fast, he was agile, he was graceful. A Pep fight resembled a ballroom dance with one partner a masterful Fred Astaire and the other apparently lacking a single dance lesson. He was called the Will o' the Wisp because, like that illusive phenomenon, he was almost impossible to lay hands upon.By the age of 20 he had won 54 fights in a row without a loss before taking the featherweight title from future HOF fighter Chalky Wright in a bout in which he never once hurt Wright, but played him like a violin. More precisely, a Stradivarius.Willie would continue to win, losing only once in his next 49 fights (to future Hall of Famer Sammy Angot), before he would be matched against a Top Ten fighter with a 25-2 record named Jackie Graves on July 25th, 1945 in Minneapolis. Graves was a southpaw, and perhaps a sportswriter had hinted that it might cause Pep a problem. Or perhaps Willie was just in the mood to show them something they'd never seen before. Whatever his motivation,prior to the start of the bout, Pep would make a prediction to rival any later made by Muhammed Ali; he would win a round without throwing a single punch.

Not only that, but he would tell them up-front just which round to watch for it; round number three. Bert Sugar said of the audacious feat: "Pep tipped off a few friendly sportswriters that he would not throw a punch in anger in the third round.... Pep moved; Pep switched to southpaw, mocking Graves; Pep danced; Pep weaved; Pep spun Graves around and around again; Pep gave head feints, shoulder feints, foot feints, and feint feints. But Pep never landed a punch." The crowd at ringside sat in spellbound awe as Pep put on perhaps the greatest three minute demonstration on the art of boxing ever witnessed. In just 180 seconds he joined the ranks of those who had done some legendary act to fulfill a fearless prediction; the called-shot of Babe Ruth, the "We're gonna win, I guarantee it!" bravado of Joe Namath, and "They all will fall, in the round I call" predictions of Ali.Sportswriter Don Riley, who was ringside and forewarned of Pep's plan for the third round, said, "It was an amazing display of defensive boxing skill so adroit, so cunning, so subtle that the roaring crowd did not notice Pep's tactics were completely without offense. He made Jim Corbett's agility look like a broken down locomotive. He made even Sugar Ray Robinson's fluidity look like cement hardening. Never has boxing seen such perfection!" He had fought the round without throwing a punch, but had he won it? Was his display so mesmerizing that even the keen eyed judges were beguiled? Pep knocked Graves down 9 times, ending the fight in the 8th round via TKO, but it wasn't the victory the ringside press were excited about; it was the score cards of the judges. When the cards were presented, there it was in black and white; Willie Pep had won the third round, the punchless round, on all three cards. The Will o' the Wisp had given boxing another legendary moment.

Oh, as to those other "did it happens?", here's the run down: Jack Dempsey did name himself after The Nonpareil Dempsey, he didn't put Plaster-of-Paris on his hands (an impossibility sworn to under oath by the inventor of the product), Louis did give a half-dollar to Marciano and another kid as they followed him around at a boxing show where he was guest announcer, Ali-Listion II drew only 2434 fans (the least ever), and Greb was blinded in one eye by Kid Norfolk in 1921, yet kept it a secret and fought successfully the final 5 years of his career and his life. And, of course, Willie Pep did win a round without landing a single punch



http://www.eastsideboxing.com/williepep.html
i didnt say knowledgable pedants did i? i werent trying to make you out to be aq liar mate. nice article thanks
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Post by Lenny »

had a thought on the Haye v Enzo thread regarding Haye and his loss to Carl Thompson and how it would have been different if Terry O Conner was ref. Of course I thought i'd check and surprise, he was actually ref for that fight, surely he should have allowed Manfredo the same opportunity to come back that he did Carl? Ok I know Thompson has made a career of coming back but surely other fighters should be given the same chance, especially if they are clearly not hurt and actually dodging the punches at the time.

This is not that I think Peter was taking anything like the shots Carl was taking from Haye in the first 2 rounds of their fight.
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Post by dr_devious »

Terry O'Conner refereed the Calzaghe-Manfredo "fight" as well as he could imo. Manfredo was taking lots of punches on the ropes, and not fighting back. O'Conner stopped the fight before he got hurt; Manfredo stood a snowflakes chance in hell in there and the ref knew it and correctly stopped the fight as soon as he could.
I noticed the look on O'Conner's face from about the second round onwards - it was the look of bemusement at the mismatch we could all see unfolding before us. He did the right thing, and that was to stop the farce as soon as he could before Manfredo got hurt.
Well done Terry O'Conner :TU:
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Post by THEBUTCH »

I thought O'Connor was poor on this occasion. Calzaghe's challengers are easy enough to beat in the first place, let's not make it even easier :wink:
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Post by overhand_right »

Although the match making was pathetic, O'Connors needless hometown reffing left an ever fouler aftertaste.

Heres his record as a heavyweight for any who are interested (3 kayos in 44 fights), 20-21 against a veritable Who's Who of low quality late 70s/early 80s journeymen. Did get a draw against Alfredo Evangelista though, which is a decent result for Old Fatty:

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=18102
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Post by m1kee50 »

Terence wrote:
hype7 wrote:They didn't jump on it because they know the truth or if not they know how to use google; it took me 5 seconds to find the article:



Willie Pep won a round without landing a punch

By B. R. Bearden

In the annuls of boxing there are many "urban myths", tall tales, and outright lies told about the fighters of the past. Did heavyweight William Harrison Dempsey really call himself "Jack" in honor of the great middleweight Jack "The Nonpareil" Dempsey? Did Dempsey have plaster-of-Paris on his hands the day he beat Jess Willard within an inch of his life? Did Joe Louis once give a shiny new half-dollar to a goggle-eyed young fan named Rocky Marciano? Did Ali once draw the smallest attendance for a world heavyweight title fight in the history of the sport? Was Harry Greb really blind in one eye the last 5 years of his career? And did Willie Pep, the Will o' the wisp, really win a round without landing a single punch?

Pep was likened to a tap dancer in boxing gloves. He was fast, he was agile, he was graceful. A Pep fight resembled a ballroom dance with one partner a masterful Fred Astaire and the other apparently lacking a single dance lesson. He was called the Will o' the Wisp because, like that illusive phenomenon, he was almost impossible to lay hands upon.By the age of 20 he had won 54 fights in a row without a loss before taking the featherweight title from future HOF fighter Chalky Wright in a bout in which he never once hurt Wright, but played him like a violin. More precisely, a Stradivarius.Willie would continue to win, losing only once in his next 49 fights (to future Hall of Famer Sammy Angot), before he would be matched against a Top Ten fighter with a 25-2 record named Jackie Graves on July 25th, 1945 in Minneapolis. Graves was a southpaw, and perhaps a sportswriter had hinted that it might cause Pep a problem. Or perhaps Willie was just in the mood to show them something they'd never seen before. Whatever his motivation,prior to the start of the bout, Pep would make a prediction to rival any later made by Muhammed Ali; he would win a round without throwing a single punch.

Not only that, but he would tell them up-front just which round to watch for it; round number three. Bert Sugar said of the audacious feat: "Pep tipped off a few friendly sportswriters that he would not throw a punch in anger in the third round.... Pep moved; Pep switched to southpaw, mocking Graves; Pep danced; Pep weaved; Pep spun Graves around and around again; Pep gave head feints, shoulder feints, foot feints, and feint feints. But Pep never landed a punch." The crowd at ringside sat in spellbound awe as Pep put on perhaps the greatest three minute demonstration on the art of boxing ever witnessed. In just 180 seconds he joined the ranks of those who had done some legendary act to fulfill a fearless prediction; the called-shot of Babe Ruth, the "We're gonna win, I guarantee it!" bravado of Joe Namath, and "They all will fall, in the round I call" predictions of Ali.Sportswriter Don Riley, who was ringside and forewarned of Pep's plan for the third round, said, "It was an amazing display of defensive boxing skill so adroit, so cunning, so subtle that the roaring crowd did not notice Pep's tactics were completely without offense. He made Jim Corbett's agility look like a broken down locomotive. He made even Sugar Ray Robinson's fluidity look like cement hardening. Never has boxing seen such perfection!" He had fought the round without throwing a punch, but had he won it? Was his display so mesmerizing that even the keen eyed judges were beguiled? Pep knocked Graves down 9 times, ending the fight in the 8th round via TKO, but it wasn't the victory the ringside press were excited about; it was the score cards of the judges. When the cards were presented, there it was in black and white; Willie Pep had won the third round, the punchless round, on all three cards. The Will o' the Wisp had given boxing another legendary moment.

Oh, as to those other "did it happens?", here's the run down: Jack Dempsey did name himself after The Nonpareil Dempsey, he didn't put Plaster-of-Paris on his hands (an impossibility sworn to under oath by the inventor of the product), Louis did give a half-dollar to Marciano and another kid as they followed him around at a boxing show where he was guest announcer, Ali-Listion II drew only 2434 fans (the least ever), and Greb was blinded in one eye by Kid Norfolk in 1921, yet kept it a secret and fought successfully the final 5 years of his career and his life. And, of course, Willie Pep did win a round without landing a single punch



http://www.eastsideboxing.com/williepep.html
Other reports from the time, not found on Eastside unfortunately, report him throwing a few jabs.
which would mean he won it on effective aggression i assume? yawn....
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Post by funso banjo baby »

ref completely messed up williams sprott 2 ..check it out
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Post by Manos de Oro »

Piss stoppage, though the worst for me in recent times was Dave Parris in that Paul Samuels - Darren Barker fight. That was, and is, awful.
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