All-Time Heavyweight Boxing World Cup

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 09 Apr 2007, 00:36

A time machine was invented in late 2007, and the users of BoxRec decided to use it to bring back the 32 greatest heavyweights in their respective primes. It was decided that using the format of the soccer world cup, the 32 fighters would compete in the All-Time Heavyweight Boxing World Cup. The 32 fighters were chosen according to the BoxRec all-time ratings.

The cup was to take place over a timeframe of 55 weeks, with fighters starting in eight groups of four. The eight greatest heavyweights were given seedings so they could not appear in the same group. Rather than follow the BoxRec all-time ratings, a poll was used to determine who are the eight greatest heavyweights of all-time. The results of the poll are below:

1. Muhummad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. George Foreman
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Joe Frazier

The remaining 24 fighters were drawn using a computer randomiser program. Below are the eight groups:

GROUP A
Ali
Schmeling
M Baer
Miske

GROUP B
Frazier
Lewis
Walcott
Quarrey

GROUP C
Foreman
Charles
Johansson
Sharkey

GROUP D
Johnson
Tyson
Tunney
Norton

GROUP E
Holmes
Wills
Bowe
Machen

GROUP F
Marciano
Stribling
Patterson
Carnera

GROUP G
Dempsey
Holyfield
Bugner
Bivins

GROUP H
Louis
Langford
Burns
Liston

Every fighter fights the other three fighters in their group once. The points system is as follows:
Win = 3 points
Draw = 1 point
Loss = 0 points
The top two fighters from each group goes through to the second stage. If fighters have the same number of points after the group stage, the fighter who won their fight goes through. If their fight was drawn, the fighter with the most KOs goes through. If KO count is even, one fighter is drawn at random to go through.

After the group stage there are 16 fighters remaining, and the tournament enters the knockout phase (how appropriately named!), where the winning fighter goes through. Drawn fights at this stage go to the fighter who finished higher in their group, and then to number of KOs if group placing is the same.

Fights all take place at neutral venues around the world with the best referees in the world officiating. Fights are scored on the 10 point must system. Fights are all restricted to 12 rounds in line with current regulations, and gloves are 10oz. There are no standing eights, fighters cannot be saved by the bell in any round, and the three knockdown rule is not in effect.

Below are the first round of fights. Please reply by posting your winners, result type, round, and explanation or description if you wish. All votes will be counted.

1 January 2008

Ali vs Miske
Frazier vs Quarrey
Foreman vs Sharkey
Johnson vs Norton
Holmes vs Machen
Marciano vs Carnera
Dempsey vs Bivins
Louis vs Liston

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 09 Apr 2007, 09:42

Ali W Miske
Frazier W Quarrey
Foreman W Sharkey
Johnson W Norton
Holmes W Machen
Marciano W Carnera
Dempsey W Bivins
Louis W Liston

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 10 Apr 2007, 09:38

Computerrank, could you please put your result type and round next to your post. The optional bit is whether you want to explain your choice or briefly describe the fight. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

My votes:

Ali UD12 Miske
Frazier TKO7 Quarrey
Foreman KO5 Sharkey
Johnson UD12 Norton
Holmes UD12 Machen
Marciano UD12 Carnera
Dempsey KO6 Bivins
Louis KO8 Liston

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 10 Apr 2007, 10:08

Ali TKO6 Miske

Frazier TKO11 Quarry

Foreman SD12 Sharkey

Johnson UD12 Norton

Holmes UD12 Machen

Marciano KO3 Carnera

Dempsey KO6 Bivins

Louis UD12 Liston

c_s_1987 · Post by **c_s_1987** » 10 Apr 2007, 11:03

Ali d Miske KO7
Frazier d Quarrey KO9
Foreman d Sharkey KO6
Johnson d Norton SD12
Holmes d Machen UD12
Marciano d Carnera MD12
Dempsey d Bivins TKO12
Louis d Liston KO8

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 10 Apr 2007, 11:20

chance of grabbing the lottery numbers or putting some bets on for me while you are there?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 10 Apr 2007, 12:04

Good luck with it jezz...

Problem is that unless the draw intervenes you'll be left with another Ali-Louis dream match up for all your efforts.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 10 Apr 2007, 16:52

I suspect this is all hypothetical matches with each man in their primes?

Ali vs Miske- Ali wins by TKO 10th

Frazier vs Quarrey- Frazier wins by KO 6th

Foreman vs Sharkey- Foreman wins by KO 4th

Johnson vs Norton- Johnson wins UD 12

Holmes vs Machen- Holmes wins UD 12

Marciano vs Carnera- Marciano wins by KO 6th

Dempsey vs Bivins- Dempsey wins by KO 10th

Louis vs Liston- Louis wins Majority 12 round decision; Louis hits canvas early on

*********************************************************

In my computer tournament the result was supposed to be Marciano-Ali as the final bout to determine the best champion. Alot of people felt that wasn't right, that a Ali-Louis bout was more accurate. So I agree with the guy who posted before me, be prepared for people who will call foul on your tournament from time to time.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 10 Apr 2007, 16:52

Ezzard wrote:Good luck with it jezz...

Problem is that unless the draw intervenes you'll be left with another Ali-Louis dream match up for all your efforts.

Well yes, this is a foregone conclusion.

Kikuchiyo · Post by **Kikuchiyo** » 10 Apr 2007, 17:50

Ali/Miske- Ali TKO 9
Frazier/Quarry- TKO 5 on cuts
Foreman/Sharkey- KO 2
Johnson/Norton- Johnson SD
Holmes/Machen- Holmes UD
Marciano/Carnera- Marciano KO 7
Dempsey/Bivins- Dempsey KO 5
Louis/Liston- Liston KO 11

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 11 Apr 2007, 01:43

Good luck with it jezz...

Problem is that unless the draw intervenes you'll be left with another Ali-Louis dream match up for all your efforts.

The draw won't intervene, as Ali is the No1 seed, and Louis No2, so they cannot possibly meet until the final. I expect this to happen, but hopefully we can have some fun along the way. I'm going to include more detail in this tournament than my last "Dream HW tournament", with summaries iof each fights, and factors such as fatigue, injuries and fitness to think about before each matchup. As the fights currently posted are the first for each fighter, everyone is fresh and injury free.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 11 Apr 2007, 21:37

Bump. I will tally votes on Sunday or Monday, hope to get some more in by then.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 15 Apr 2007, 09:26

RESULTS FROM 1 JANUARY 2008:

Ali TKO8 Miske
Easy win for Ali who dominates the fight, winning every round with the referee finally stopping the fight in the 8th.

Frazier TKO8 Quarrey
A tough, gruelling battle for both fighters. Quarrey wins the first two rounds, but Frazier gradually takes over, eventually pinning Quarrey on the ropes and connecting with huge left hooks putting Quarrey out on his feet as the referee jumped between them to stop the fight.

Foreman KO4 Sharkey
Sharkey manages to win the first two rounds by boxing smart, but seems hurt every time Foreman connects. Foreman knocks Sharkey down at the end of the 3rd, and twice more in the 4th before finishing the fight with a monsterous uppercut that has Sharkey out cold.

Johnson UD12 Norton
A very high quality fight with Johnson winning a close but clear decision. Both fighters are visibly hurt at certain stages of the fight, but in the end Johnson lands more punches and clearly outboxes Norton through certain stages of the fight.

Holmes UD12 Machen
An entertaining fight where Holmes wins a clear decision, although neither fighter visits the canvas. In the end Holmes' jab is the deciding factor as he wins by a wide margin on all three cards, although never able to badly hurt Machen.

Marciano KO5 Carnera
The size difference makes for an interesting matchup, as Marciano has trouble landing to Carnera's head, although clearly taking the first few rounds with good body shots. A crunching overhand right to Carnera's mouth in the 5th has the bigger man sagging on the ropes, where Marciano takes his opportunity and finishes him off with several wincingly powerful blows.

Dempsey KO8 Bivins
Another entertaining fight, Dempsey's power and aggression in the deciding factor. Bivins wins a few rounds and boxes well, but Dempsey is always able to hurt him throughout the fight. By the 8th Bivins in tiring and Dempsey reels off an impressive combination of power punches, ending with a straight right to the jaw that sends Bivins through the ropes and unable to rise within the count.

Louis MD12 Liston
In one of the best quality heavyweight fights of all-time, Louis manages to win a decision over an impressive Liston. Louis hits the canvas in the 2nd round, and Liston is ahead on points at the halfway stage of the fight. Louis rallies to take most of the final rounds, hurting Liston badly in the 12th and final round. Both fighters are battered and exhausted.

POINTS TABLES:

GROUP A
Ali 3
Schmeling 0
M Baer 0
Miske 0

GROUP B
Frazier 3
Lewis 0
Walcott 0
Quarrey 0

GROUP C
Foreman 3
Charles 0
Johansson 0
Sharkey 0

GROUP D
Johnson 3
Tyson 0
Tunney 0
Norton 0

GROUP E
Holmes 3
Wills 0
Bowe 0
Machen 0

GROUP F
Marciano 3
Stribling 0
Patterson 0
Carnera 0

GROUP G
Dempsey 3
Holyfield 0
Bugner 0
Bivins 0

GROUP H
Louis 3
Langford 0
Burns 0
Liston 0

Next round of fights:

2 January 2008

Schmeling vs Baer
Lewis vs Walcott
Charles vs Johansson
Tyson vs Tunney
Wills vs Bowe
Stribling vs Patterson
Holyfield vs Bugner
Langford vs Burns

Kikuchiyo · Post by **Kikuchiyo** » 15 Apr 2007, 18:35

Schmeling/Baer- Schmeling UD
Lewis/Walcott- Lewis KO 8
Charles/Johansson- Charles TKO 11
Tyson/Tunney- Tunney UD
Wills/Bowe- Bowe TKO 9
Stribling/Patterson- Patterson UD
Holyfield/Bguner- Holyfield UD
Langford/Burns- Langford SD

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 15 Apr 2007, 22:53

Baer-Schmeling; Baer wins split decision, knocks down Schmeling.

Walcott-Lewis; Walcott wins 12 round split decision

Charles-Johansson; KO 10th Charles wins

Tyson-Tunney; KO 8th Tyson wins

Wills-Bowe; KO 10th Wills

Patterson-Stribling; Patterson wins 12 round UD decision

Holyfield-Bugner; Holyfield wins 12 round UD decision

Langford-Burns; really hard decision for me to make, but I go with Langford winning via 12 round Majority decision

Kikuchiyo · Post by **Kikuchiyo** » 15 Apr 2007, 23:23

HomicideHenry wrote:Baer-Schmeling; KO 13th Baer wins

In this tournament, fights only last 12 rounds.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Apr 2007, 00:43

Oh i forgot lol....i'll have to rethink that one then.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 16 Apr 2007, 03:55

Baer TKO10 Schmeling
Lewis KO8 Walcott
Charles UD12 Johansson
Tyson KO7 Tunney
Bowe UD12 Wills
Patterson UD12 Stribling
Holyfield UD12 Bugner
Burns SD12 Langford

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 17 Apr 2007, 09:25

bump. I will tally the votes on the weekend, hopefully lots more by then!

Friedie · Post by **Friedie** » 17 Apr 2007, 12:51

Schmeling/Baer- Schmeling Ko 8
Lewis/Walcott- Lewis KO 3
Charles/Johansson- Charles W 12
Tyson/Tunney- Tunney W 12
Wills/Bowe- Bowe KO 5
Stribling/Patterson- Stribling W 12
Holyfield/Bugner- Holyfield W 12
Langford/Burns- Langford W 12

JC · Post by JC » 17 Apr 2007, 13:21

Friedie wrote:Schmeling/Baer- Schmeling Ko 8

No offense but what can you base that prediction on when they actually fought in their respective primes and Baer won?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:34

HomicideHenry wrote:Baer-Schmeling; Baer wins split decision, knocks down Schmeling.

Baer doesn't win a decision over Schmeling. Baer was famous for fighting only in spurts, while Schmeling scored relentlessly as long as the fight went on. He knocks Schmeling out or he loses.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:35

J-C wrote:
Friedie wrote:Schmeling/Baer- Schmeling Ko 8
No offense but what can you base that prediction on when they actually fought in their respective primes and Baer won?

Schmeling went through a bad spell, lost his next fight to Steve Hamas. It seems pretty legit to speculate that Schmeling might have won a refight.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:36

Schmeling/Baer- Schmeling W12
Lewis/Walcott- Lewis W12 (split decision)
Charles/Johansson- Charles KO7
Tyson/Tunney- Tunney W12
Wills/Bowe- Wills KO8
Stribling/Patterson- Patterson W12
Holyfield/Bugner- Holyfield W12
Langford/Burns- Langford KO10

JC · Post by JC » 17 Apr 2007, 13:53

pundit wrote:
J-C wrote:
Friedie wrote:Schmeling/Baer- Schmeling Ko 8
No offense but what can you base that prediction on when they actually fought in their respective primes and Baer won?
Schmeling went through a bad spell, lost his next fight to Steve Hamas. It seems pretty legit to speculate that Schmeling might have won a refight.

I just think to make these fantasy match-ups worthwhile you have to take fact over speculation wherever possible, otherwise with two fighters of similar ability you might as well flip a coin.