Max Molyneux wrote:If Kessler and Calzaghe happened In America barely any Americans would pay to go to see a big fight between Europeans.
Kessler doesn't have enough draw to make a 50/50 purse realistic.
Kessler is more well-known in America right now than Calzaghe ,so dont be such a cry-baby
Since when? I think wins over Manfredo and Lacy gives Calzaghe a slightly higher profile than Kessler.
How daft does someone have to be to believe a win over Manfredo would give anyone US "profile". Well, perhaps if Calzaghe would be auditing for a role in a reality show, but not for anything related to boxing.
Calzaghe and Kessler are both known among US boxing fans as decent euro fighters who need to step up to have an internatioal career. And Calzaghe vs. Kessler is known as THE fight at 168 that needs to happen.
Kessler is more well-known in America right now than Calzaghe ,so dont be such a cry-baby
Since when? I think wins over Manfredo and Lacy gives Calzaghe a slightly higher profile than Kessler.
How daft does someone have to be to believe a win over Manfredo would give anyone US "profile". Well, perhaps if Calzaghe would be auditing for a role in a reality show, but not for anything related to boxing.
Calzaghe and Kessler are both known among US boxing fans as decent euro fighters who need to step up to have an internatioal career. And Calzaghe vs. Kessler is known as THE fight at 168 that needs to happen.
How daft is someone to think that Manfredo's ability has anything to do with his profile in the US? Like it or not Manfredo has a higher recognition factor among US fight fans than anyone Kessler has ever fought... as does Lacy.
Don't assume just because you know Kessler's inside leg measurement every US fan knows who he is.
Precisely, I think that Palle is trying it on a little. Who else is Kessler going to fight to get a massive payday? The only possible fight is Taylor, and Taylor will take him to take a running jump if he wants purse parity.
-- Calzaghe gets UK TV rights
-- Kessler gets Danish TV rights
-- International TV rights (including HBO) and ticket receipts are split 50:50. Or 60:40 Calzaghe for god's sake.
I'll say this for you Pundit, at least you are prepared to admit that Palle is being every bit as difficult as Warren here. He cannot reasonable expect to copromote the fight, take a 50-50 split against Calzaghe in Joe's back yard, when the fight is obviously bigger here than anywhere else.
I reckon Joe can get a HUMUNGOUS crowd in Cardiff for this bout, far more than they are going to get in Denmark, they could fight late in the night, have the fight aired on American TV live, and make for a huge event.
Trouble is, Palle is insisting on parity, even though he knows that he isn't going to get anywhere near what Warren is offering him elsewhere.
Where the hell is Palle going to get $4,000,000 for Kessler for his next fight?
Kessler should obviously be prepared to take a bit less. But also, Warren should be obliged to do what he can to make these big fights happen. Otherwise he'll get booted off the TV.
This Is what I got out of a Danish/English translator.
The television company HBO intervenes now in the hairsplitting between Mikkel Kessler's manager Mogens Palle and the WBO-master Joe Calzaghe's promoter allegedly. The two camps have mutually blamed each other to put hindrances in the road for the fight between the two boxers. But now HBO encourages the two managers about reaching to agreement. "We cannot put the fight up. Therefore the boxers must say to their managers that they have the will to meet each other. And after that they must work on agreeing on managing to arrange the fight", says programme-manager Luis Barragan. Have put in for fight Already after Mikkel Kessler's title defence against Mexican Librado Andrades last month put itself down the American television-station for a fight between Kessler and Calzaghe. And it's still one of the completely great goals at HBO. "It is no secret that one our top priorities are that Kessler and Calzaghe will meet each other", Luis Barragan says.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'll say this for you Pundit, at least you are prepared to admit that Palle is being every bit as difficult as Warren here. He cannot reasonable expect to copromote the fight, take a 50-50 split against Calzaghe in Joe's back yard, when the fight is obviously bigger here than anywhere else.
I reckon Joe can get a HUMUNGOUS crowd in Cardiff for this bout, far more than they are going to get in Denmark, they could fight late in the night, have the fight aired on American TV live, and make for a huge event.
Trouble is, Palle is insisting on parity, even though he knows that he isn't going to get anywhere near what Warren is offering him elsewhere.
Where the hell is Palle going to get $4,000,000 for Kessler for his next fight?
Well yes, but this fight is big beyond Britain and Denmark --including for HBO -- because it's Calzaghe vs. Kessler for the undisputed 168 crown, not Calzaghe against somebody.
So I can't see why Calzaghe ought to get much more than 50 percent of the money that is generated outside Britain. Offering Kessler only Danish and German TV rights is an insult -- if the fight was in Denmark the spectators alone would probably pay more than German TV.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'll say this for you Pundit, at least you are prepared to admit that Palle is being every bit as difficult as Warren here. He cannot reasonable expect to copromote the fight, take a 50-50 split against Calzaghe in Joe's back yard, when the fight is obviously bigger here than anywhere else.
I reckon Joe can get a HUMUNGOUS crowd in Cardiff for this bout, far more than they are going to get in Denmark, they could fight late in the night, have the fight aired on American TV live, and make for a huge event.
Trouble is, Palle is insisting on parity, even though he knows that he isn't going to get anywhere near what Warren is offering him elsewhere.
Where the hell is Palle going to get $4,000,000 for Kessler for his next fight?
Well yes, but this fight is big beyond Britain and Denmark --including for HBO -- because it's Calzaghe vs. Kessler for the undisputed 168 crown, not Calzaghe against somebody.
So I can't see why Calzaghe ought to get much more than 50 percent of the money that is generated outside Britain. Offering Kessler only Danish and German TV rights is an insult -- if the fight was in Denmark the spectators alone would probably pay more than German TV.
Wasn't it exclusive not only Danish and German TV rights?
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'll say this for you Pundit, at least you are prepared to admit that Palle is being every bit as difficult as Warren here. He cannot reasonable expect to copromote the fight, take a 50-50 split against Calzaghe in Joe's back yard, when the fight is obviously bigger here than anywhere else.
I reckon Joe can get a HUMUNGOUS crowd in Cardiff for this bout, far more than they are going to get in Denmark, they could fight late in the night, have the fight aired on American TV live, and make for a huge event.
Trouble is, Palle is insisting on parity, even though he knows that he isn't going to get anywhere near what Warren is offering him elsewhere.
Where the hell is Palle going to get $4,000,000 for Kessler for his next fight?
Well yes, but this fight is big beyond Britain and Denmark --including for HBO -- because it's Calzaghe vs. Kessler for the undisputed 168 crown, not Calzaghe against somebody.
So I can't see why Calzaghe ought to get much more than 50 percent of the money that is generated outside Britain. Offering Kessler only Danish and German TV rights is an insult -- if the fight was in Denmark the spectators alone would probably pay more than German TV.
Warren says Scandinavian and German TV rights are probably worth $4m. He also said, ok, I'll have the rights and pay Kessler the $4m instead.
Good to see HBO letting their feelings be felt. You'd think Calzaghe's HBO fights - Bika & Manfredo - will not have pleased HBO. With ITV also irate, Warren has to do what it takes to make it happen.
The plot thickens. Kessler and Taylor's ppl meet up in America for talks. Allegedly...
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'll say this for you Pundit, at least you are prepared to admit that Palle is being every bit as difficult as Warren here. He cannot reasonable expect to copromote the fight, take a 50-50 split against Calzaghe in Joe's back yard, when the fight is obviously bigger here than anywhere else.
I reckon Joe can get a HUMUNGOUS crowd in Cardiff for this bout, far more than they are going to get in Denmark, they could fight late in the night, have the fight aired on American TV live, and make for a huge event.
Trouble is, Palle is insisting on parity, even though he knows that he isn't going to get anywhere near what Warren is offering him elsewhere.
Where the hell is Palle going to get $4,000,000 for Kessler for his next fight?
Well yes, but this fight is big beyond Britain and Denmark --including for HBO -- because it's Calzaghe vs. Kessler for the undisputed 168 crown, not Calzaghe against somebody.
So I can't see why Calzaghe ought to get much more than 50 percent of the money that is generated outside Britain. Offering Kessler only Danish and German TV rights is an insult -- if the fight was in Denmark the spectators alone would probably pay more than German TV.
Wasn't it exclusive not only Danish and German TV rights?
pundit wrote:
Well yes, but this fight is big beyond Britain and Denmark --including for HBO -- because it's Calzaghe vs. Kessler for the undisputed 168 crown, not Calzaghe against somebody.
So I can't see why Calzaghe ought to get much more than 50 percent of the money that is generated outside Britain. Offering Kessler only Danish and German TV rights is an insult -- if the fight was in Denmark the spectators alone would probably pay more than German TV.
Wasn't it exclusive not only Danish and German TV rights?
I don't get your point. Can you elaborate?
Well there was no mention of Kessler not getting any money from US TV, merely that he would be offered the exclusive rights in Denmark and Germany.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'll say this for you Pundit, at least you are prepared to admit that Palle is being every bit as difficult as Warren here. He cannot reasonable expect to copromote the fight, take a 50-50 split against Calzaghe in Joe's back yard, when the fight is obviously bigger here than anywhere else.
I reckon Joe can get a HUMUNGOUS crowd in Cardiff for this bout, far more than they are going to get in Denmark, they could fight late in the night, have the fight aired on American TV live, and make for a huge event.
Trouble is, Palle is insisting on parity, even though he knows that he isn't going to get anywhere near what Warren is offering him elsewhere.
Where the hell is Palle going to get $4,000,000 for Kessler for his next fight?
Well yes, but this fight is big beyond Britain and Denmark --including for HBO -- because it's Calzaghe vs. Kessler for the undisputed 168 crown, not Calzaghe against somebody.
So I can't see why Calzaghe ought to get much more than 50 percent of the money that is generated outside Britain. Offering Kessler only Danish and German TV rights is an insult -- if the fight was in Denmark the spectators alone would probably pay more than German TV.
Warren says Scandinavian and German TV rights are probably worth $4m. He also said, ok, I'll have the rights and pay Kessler the $4m instead.
Good to see HBO letting their feelings be felt. You'd think Calzaghe's HBO fights - Bika & Manfredo - will not have pleased HBO. With ITV also irate, Warren has to do what it takes to make it happen.
The plot thickens. Kessler and Taylor's ppl meet up in America for talks. Allegedly...
I read Kessler is in the US this week on a promotional tour and meetings. If Kessler v Taylor comes off where does that leave Calzaghe??
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'll say this for you Pundit, at least you are prepared to admit that Palle is being every bit as difficult as Warren here. He cannot reasonable expect to copromote the fight, take a 50-50 split against Calzaghe in Joe's back yard, when the fight is obviously bigger here than anywhere else.
I reckon Joe can get a HUMUNGOUS crowd in Cardiff for this bout, far more than they are going to get in Denmark, they could fight late in the night, have the fight aired on American TV live, and make for a huge event.
Trouble is, Palle is insisting on parity, even though he knows that he isn't going to get anywhere near what Warren is offering him elsewhere.
Where the hell is Palle going to get $4,000,000 for Kessler for his next fight?
Well yes, but this fight is big beyond Britain and Denmark --including for HBO -- because it's Calzaghe vs. Kessler for the undisputed 168 crown, not Calzaghe against somebody.
So I can't see why Calzaghe ought to get much more than 50 percent of the money that is generated outside Britain. Offering Kessler only Danish and German TV rights is an insult -- if the fight was in Denmark the spectators alone would probably pay more than German TV.
Warren says Scandinavian and German TV rights are probably worth $4m. He also said, ok, I'll have the rights and pay Kessler the $4m instead.
Where did you read this? An explicit $4m offer would actually sound like serious negotiating.
However, I can't see that German and Danish TV rights would even come close to this value. Sven Ottke never made more than USD 1.5 million, coming largely from TV rights, and the Dane Kessler is no comparison to Ottke as regards attraction in Germany of course. And Freiheit said Danish rights wouldn't yield more than 200 or 300K, which sounds perfectly sensible.
I doubt German and Danish rights combined could be worth more than half a million dollars.
nickd wrote:Ottke didn't have any US TV interest. UK TV money, US TV money plus Danish and rest of world would surely be worth some serious bucks.
More than any Sven Ottke fight by a long shot.
That's true. They loved Ottke in Germany, but America will have wanted nothing to do with him, because he was a "converted amateur" albeit a very good one.
For me, Kessler represents the first of the elite Europeans to make the crossover successfully. He was on Friday Night Fights recently and is doing little things to make himself seen (unlike say Calzaghe).
Also, I have been hard on Joe for not fighting Ottke. But when Ottke's fights were shown on Sky Sports he didn't impress anyone and in truth made zero demand for Calzaghe. The Starie fight for instance - to the untrained eye that was an even fight...With Kessler it's different because he amde an impressive title defense.
Kessler will have been talking with Taylor's ppl, but HBO want Calzaghe-Kessler much more.
pundit wrote:
Well yes, but this fight is big beyond Britain and Denmark --including for HBO -- because it's Calzaghe vs. Kessler for the undisputed 168 crown, not Calzaghe against somebody.
So I can't see why Calzaghe ought to get much more than 50 percent of the money that is generated outside Britain. Offering Kessler only Danish and German TV rights is an insult -- if the fight was in Denmark the spectators alone would probably pay more than German TV.
Wasn't it exclusive not only Danish and German TV rights?
I don't get your point. Can you elaborate?
I think what he means is that Warren is effectively 'giving away' those TV rights. That doesn't neccessarily mean that he isn't offering a share of the TV rights elsewhere, though of course it doesn't mean he is either.
By staging the fight in the UK, the factoring in of the live gate which could potentially be huge (if the latest fiasco hasn't scuppered that), makes the fight certainly bigger than denmark, and possibly even bigger than staging it in the states.
It's possible a crowd of 45,000 or even more could be lured to watch Joe take on Kessler, the PPV could be sold in the USA effectively by staging the fight late at night, but to do so, it would surely have to be done in the summer months.
You'd have to say Sports Network are REALLY treading the fine line. They may have come close to losing their ITV contract, and if they manage to fvck things up any more, Kessler & Taylor will end up fighting each other.
They need to conside that the #s are misleading. 35,000 turned up, millions are pissed off.
