Rankings Help

[HomicideHenry]

what were the HW ratings of RING magazine from late 1955 to 1960?

if anyone can find these rankings for me, I would be very appreciative.

I am trying to do a simulation of Marciano, and see how far he could have
gone on, had he went for the 50-0 and onward, via computer simulation.

1960 would probably be pushing it, considering he was 33 when he retired, but nonetheless, I would like to have those rankings from late 1955 to 1960.

Then we all could view the simulations, and debate whether or not he could have went as far as the computer says, as well as debate former champions and contenders of similar styles who went on after the age of 33 and find the common denominator in all of this.

While I have had somewhat lackluster success in the past with these simulations I believe this go around will be different, as it is more a thing of probability and will be viewed as chance and circumstance, rather than as a 'final' or conclusive end.

[Ric]

Here

[HomicideHenry]

Thanks I really appreciate all that 8)

bit of a discrepency though, considering the rankings go by years, rather than by month to month. But thanks

[HomicideHenry]

Okies, now that we have the rankings from that time, I was hoping that some of the more educated 'experts' of the 1950's HW division would pick out the best possible contenders for this Marciano simulation. I figure-in that Marciano defended his title twice a year, with at least one 'easy' fight after every 4 bouts (the two Walcott fights, two Charles fights and then the Don Cockell bout).

I do know that Nino Valdes was supposed to fight Marciano, but after a less than lackluster showing between both Bob Baker and Nino Valdes, both men were deemed not the #1 contender.

To me, this just means Valdes and Baker get the first 'round' with Marciano. Valdes, Baker go first and then...well, thats up to the experts of that time period. I would imagine it would be Tommy Jackson and then Floyd Patterson next, followed by an easy defense, possibly Henry Cooper, and then Eddie Machen; then of course Ingemar Johansson.

Does that sound about right?

***********************************************************
MARCIANO COMPUTER LINE UP:

Rocky Marciano vs. Bob Baker
> 1955-1956
Rocky Marciano vs. Nino Valdes

Rocky Marciano vs. Tommy Jackson
> 1956-1957
Rocky Marciano vs. Floyd Patterson

Rocky Marciano vs. Henry Cooper
> 1957-1958
Rocky Marciano vs. Eddie Machen

Rocky Marciano vs. Ingemar Johansson - 1958


**********************************************************

[HomicideHenry]

Sorry for the triple post...but does the list I made for all this, sound about right, or who do you think should be on the 'defense' list on this computer careeer simulation?

1955 Rankings:

Archie Moore
Bob Baker
Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
John Holman
Willie Pastrano
Nino Valdes
Johnny Summerlin
Bob Satterfield
Young Jack Johnson
Ezzard Charles

1956 Rankings (Patterson as champion)

Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
Archie Moore
Harold Carter
Willie Pastrano
Eddie Machen
Bob Satterfield
Ingemar Johansson
Bob Baker
Zora Folley
Wayne Bethea

1957 Rankings:

Eddie Machen
Zora Folley
Willie Pastrano
Roy Harris
Pat McMurtry
Nino Valdes
Mike DeJohn
Wayne Bethea
Alex Miteff
Ingemar Johansson


1958 Rankings:

Ingemar Johansson
Nino Valdes
Zora Folley
Henry Cooper
Willie Pastrano
Archie Moore
Eddie Machen
Brian London
Sonny Liston
Mike DeJohn

1959 is when Ingemar Johansson was ranked as champion.

[Cap]

Marciano's biggest opponent during this period would have been advancing age, and probably indifference. Had he kept fighting, sooner or later some young contender would've outpointed him. In his prime, he would've beaten all those guys. Most were nothing special. But sometime, somewhere, he would've suddenly got old and that would've been that. I could see Zora Folley being the one on the right night.

Cap

[HomicideHenry]

Ring Ratings For November, 1955
Champion Rocky Maricano

1. Archie Moore
2. Bob Baker
3. Nino Valdes, Cuba
4. Tommy Jackson
5. Jimmy Slade
6. John Holman
7. Johnny Summerlin
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Harold Carter
10. Franco, Cavicchi, Italy

Ring Ratings For Dec. 1955
Champion Rocky Maricano

1. Archie Moore
2. Bob Baker
3. Tommy Jackson
4. Bob Satterfield
5. Ezzard Charles
6. John Holman
7. Nino Valdes
8. Earl Walls
9. Jimmy Slade
10. Don Cockell


Maybe, according to these rankings, it should be Bob Baker followed up by Tommy Jackson, then by Patterson, Machen, Cooper (maybe Norkus)and lastly Johansson.

**********************************************************

Time will be the deciding factor against Rocky; Dempsey after retiring from the second Tunney bout, came back a few years later in an exhibition tour, over a 100 bouts, some of which were impressive kayo victories over top contenders---but then he faced a mover/tactician by the name of Kingfish Levinsky and looked bad in the exhibition, never making an official comeback.

This shows me, as well as conditioned Marciano was, if going by Dempsey, he might have enough in him to get by a mover or two in the later stages of this simulation scenario or hypothetically in real life had he chose to go on. Most swarmers fade out in their early to mid 30's. The key here is for Marciano to face men who are willing enough to punch back, to brawl back---then he will stand a chance in his later years, as power is the LAST thing to ever leave a fighter, that and his heart.

I only make this statement, because of how well Dempsey did against the likes of contenders in exhibitions---it showed me that Dempsey was still very much capable of beating punchers and bangers such as Meyer 'KO' Christener and the like, but failed against movers. Jack was simply too old to keep up with men of that style and pace....I would imagine Marciano would probably be the same, though in the SUPER FIGHT that was done in 1969, Marciano for 45 looked good and seemed to keep up a pace.

[Ezzard]

Dempsey was quicker than Marciano in his prime but I'm not sure how this would translate as the men aged.

Rocky was the man of great stamina and endurance and in exhibitions of these kind (and as one gets older) these traits just don't come into play. IMO Marciano's peak would have deserted him quickly and possibly without warning.

[bill.lockhart]

I was wondering why Moore, Jackson & Harris were eliminated from the ratings after losing to Patterson. Archie was #2, year end 56 & gone by 57. Hurricane was ranked #1 year end 56 & gone by year end 57. Harris was #4 year end 57, & gone by year end 58.
I don't believe any of them had lost again the year after losing to Patterson.
This seems somewhat harsh, especially in Moore's case. Losing to the champ shouldn't eliminate you from the ratings altogether.