Riddick (Bowe) vs. (Donovan) Ruddock

Trajan · Post by **Trajan** » 23 Sep 2003, 13:16

Big Daddy vs. Razor. Who wins?

Riddick has only one loss on his record, to Holyfield, though he was yet another that was going (way) downhill at the end of his career. Likely would have lost to Golota if Andrew had decided to fight within the rules. And he was known to avoid certain (formidable) fighters, Lennox Lewis most notoriously but also Mike Tyson (who was even from the same neighborhood as Bowe-so there was much talk of them fighting). He did of course beat Holyfield twice.

Lewis handled Ruddock with relative ease. In all probability "The Lion" would have also beaten Bowe but it's hard to see him doing it in a couple of rounds, as he did Ruddock. So Riddick gets the nod over Ruddock with a decision or late round KO (provided the Bowe that shows up is the one from most of his career, not the out-of-shape later version).

Anthony

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 24 Sep 2003, 03:55

Assuming both were in their prime, Bowe KO6.

IMO, again assuming both in their prime, Bowe KO8 Lewis.

Tyson KTFO 3 Times · Post by **Tyson KTFO 3 Times** » 24 Sep 2003, 11:41

knockout artist wrote:Assuming both were in their prime, Bowe KO6.

IMO, again assuming both in their prime, Bowe KO8 Lewis.

I think thats pretty accurate.

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 28 Sep 2003, 13:03

when did bowe ever show any evidence of being able to beat a dangerous big man of similar frame and ability?

in his 2 rd KO loss to lewis in the olympics?

his two career ending beatings from golota?

Dutch Windmill · Post by **Dutch Windmill** » 28 Sep 2003, 13:15

I agree that a late KO of Ruddock sounds pretty realistic.

I'm a Bowe fan though, and I don't think that even a prime and in top shape Bowe(holy I) could beat a prime Lewis.(Morrison)

Like ove....Neil stated Bowe never defeated a contender of both similar size and skill.
There were either smaller(Holy, Dokes, Hide), or less skilled(Jorge Luis Gonzales)

Bowe was a fighter that got old before he got old. The Bowe that fought against Golota was especially in the 2nd fight a shell of his former self.

Taken Bowe's durability and ability to smother punches into account, I favour Lewis by wide UD

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 28 Sep 2003, 13:27

the reason bowe looked so shot in the second fight was party because of the horrendous beating golota gave him in the 1st, but mainly because, without edddie fucth, he had trained himself (very badly), starving himself purely for a good looking weight and completely overtrained.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 29 Sep 2003, 07:08

How may times was Bowe stopped as a professional? None

How many times was Lewis stopped as a professional? Twice, both times by glorified journeymen.

Who is the only man to stop Evander Holyfield? Riddick Bowe.

Lewis is good, but in a class below Riddick Bowe.

Tyson KTFO 3 Times · Post by **Tyson KTFO 3 Times** » 29 Sep 2003, 11:36

knockout artist wrote:How may times was Bowe stopped as a professional? None

How many times was Lewis stopped as a professional? Twice, both times by glorified journeymen.

Who is the only man to stop Evander Holyfield? Riddick Bowe.

Lewis is good, but in a class below Riddick Bowe.

I once again lean to this way of thinking, Bowe twice beat a Holyfield at his best, Lewis struggled with a older "worse" version.

Lewis' ability to take a punch would be the big factor here, with Bowe scoring a KO, because if Mccall and Rahman can Cold-Cock him and Briggs rock him, bowe easily would be able to score the big KO.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 30 Sep 2003, 06:03

How many punchers did Bowe face? Not too many, Bowe already proved in the Olympics that he coudn't take a punch too well.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 30 Sep 2003, 08:37

I would say, without any shadow of a doubt, that Riddick Bowe had a much better chin than Lennox Lewis.

In fact Riddick, in his prime, was a much better fighter than Lewis.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 30 Sep 2003, 08:43

knockout artist wrote:I would say, without any shadow of a doubt, that Riddick Bowe had a much better chin than Lennox Lewis.

In fact Riddick, in his prime, was a much better fighter than Lewis.

Because he withstood the punches of Pierre Coetzer?

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 30 Sep 2003, 11:55

wouter wrote:
knockout artist wrote:I would say, without any shadow of a doubt, that Riddick Bowe had a much better chin than Lennox Lewis.

In fact Riddick, in his prime, was a much better fighter than Lewis.
Because he withstood the punches of Pierre Coetzer?

Don't forget Herbie "Man of Boesel Wood" Hide.

Tyson KTFO 3 Times · Post by **Tyson KTFO 3 Times** » 30 Sep 2003, 13:00

wouter wrote:
knockout artist wrote:I would say, without any shadow of a doubt, that Riddick Bowe had a much better chin than Lennox Lewis.

In fact Riddick, in his prime, was a much better fighter than Lewis.
Because he withstood the punches of Pierre Coetzer?

No, because i could not imagine Him getting his ass handed to him in 2 rounds by Mike Tysons Sparring partner

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 01 Oct 2003, 02:17

During his breif prime I think Riddick Bowe was a tremendous fighter. Skilled Hard puching Physically imposing and very tough....His three wars with Holyfield burnt him out....
He was shot when he fought Golata..

At his best However he was much better than Ruddock...
I liked Ruddock he kind of reminded me of Earnie Shavers ..

The Razor was a big strong guy who could hit really hard with one punch and was reasonably tough but had no real boxing skill to speak of along with a suspect chin and stamina problems...

Bowe at his best would have hammerd Ruddock just like Lewis did..
He would have hammered Tyson too

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 01 Oct 2003, 15:10

knockout artist wrote:How may times was Bowe stopped as a professional? None

How many times was Lewis stopped as a professional? Twice, both times by glorified journeymen.

Who is the only man to stop Evander Holyfield? Riddick Bowe.

Lewis is good, but in a class below Riddick Bowe.

i love this logic.

how many punchers did riddick bowe fight? ONE. bert cooper, who didnt fight back.

how many shot/over matched stiffs did bowe wax? too many to mention.

if mccall and rahman are 'glorified journeymen', then who the hell did bowe ever beat if you remove evander holyfield from his record(who also beat bowe too)

if lewis is a league below bowe, how come in 2003 with lewis pushing 40 he is still The Man and the undisputed world heavyweigth champion, whilst bowe is history?

lewis beat holy EASILY. and guess what mate, he waxed golota in ONE ROUND. immediately after golota hammered bowe into retirement.

if golota can destroy bowe twice, then lewis can easily walk over him in one round, that would suggest to me that lewis is waaaay over bowe. also that 2 rd KO of bowe does hang around too.

try again fella.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 02 Oct 2003, 08:21

Your whole argument is based on pretending that Bowe never fought Holyfield.

We cant argue on this basis. Bowe was the first man to beat Holyfield, and the only man to ever stop him.

Let us take a look at Lennox's great acheivements:

Being taken to the brink of defeat by Vitali Klitschko, more a robot, than a boxer.

Stopped by Hasim Rahman, who was previously KO'd by Oleg Maskaev and won a disputed decision against that all time great Obed Sullivan.

Labouring against and failing to stop Holyfield, years after Bowe fought him, despite a 25lb and 31lb weight advantage.

Stopped by Tyson sparring partner Oliver McCall, who barely beat a approaching 50 year old Larry Holmes.

Almost stopped by Shannon Briggs

Beating an out of gas Frank Bruno, after being given a boxing lesson.

Labouring against a washed up Tony Tucker.

Labouring against a washed up Levi Billups, who was subsequently KO'd by Jeremy Williams.

Yeah, that Lennox Lewis is one Great fighter.

Please!

Tyson KTFO 3 Times · Post by **Tyson KTFO 3 Times** » 02 Oct 2003, 08:41

knockout artist wrote:Your whole argument is based on pretending that Bowe never fought Holyfield.

We cant argue on this basis. Bowe was the first man to beat Holyfield, and the only man to ever stop him.

Let us take a look at Lennox's great acheivements:

Being taken to the brink of defeat by Vitali Klitschko, more a robot, than a boxer.

Stopped by Hasim Rahman, who was previously KO'd by Oleg Maskaev and won a disputed decision against that all time great Obed Sullivan.

Labouring against and failing to stop Holyfield, years after Bowe fought him, despite a 25lb and 31lb weight advantage.

Stopped by Tyson sparring partner Oliver McCall, who barely beat a approaching 50 year old Larry Holmes.

Almost stopped by Shannon Briggs

Beating an out of gas Frank Bruno, after being given a boxing lesson.

Labouring against a washed up Tony Tucker.

Labouring against a washed up Levi Billups, who was subsequently KO'd by Jeremy Williams.

Yeah, that Lennox Lewis is one Great fighter.

Please!

Amen to that.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 02 Oct 2003, 08:49

Finally someone who knows his boxing

Riddick Bowe is a much better fighter than Lewis, just look at the facts..

He blew away Antonio Whiteside in the 1ST ROUND

Won a UNANIMOUS decision over Eddie Gonzalez

Beat Elijah Tillery not once but TWICE

Former champion Michale Dokes failed to last a SINGLE round

Lennox beat Golota once, Riddick did it TWICE

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 02 Oct 2003, 09:53

Wouter, glad to note you finally see sense and conclude that Bowe is the better fighter.

Well done.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 02 Oct 2003, 10:21

Umm, did the whole thing about Holyfield having hepatitis in the third fight pass over you somehow?

The fact Holy had hepatitis, and he still scored a KD... Is pretty amazing.

Bowe was really good at smothering fighters, but he really couldn't do that against big punchers, and that was his downfall.

To say that Bowe was better than Lewis is just plain stupid, but I do think if they fought, it would be competative... Atleast for a while, until Lewis got used to his style, and wailed him to the canvas.

I like Bowe, I don't like Lewis... And I really don't see anyway Bowe could have beat Lewis. It's just not there.

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 02 Oct 2003, 12:37

okay then knockout artist, lets look at this holyfield comparison logically and fairly. baring in mind i enjoy both bowe and lewis, so im not clouded by resentment.

your main argument is that bowe beat holy easily and lewis struggled, therfore bowe is better. lets just analyse that one for a second:

bowe v holyfield 1: bowe wins fair and square, in a WAR. now tell me, since when did a war constitute an 'easy win'?

bowe v holyfield 2: holy rocks bowe a couple of times, and BEATS bowe! no easy win there for bowe then.

bowe v holyfield 3: bowe stops holy, but gets put on the deck hard and nearly knocked out!! this despite the fact that holy was an exhausted, weary looking fighter who it turned out was fighting with HEPITITIS (!!!). no frickin wonder he couldnt fight!!

so 3 fights, no easy win for bowe.

lewis v holyfield 1: holyfield loses nearly every round and is controlled completely by lewis.

lewis v holy 2: lewis wins again, however holy raises his game and fights hard in the middle rounds, but still loses fair and square.

so thats two wins for lewis, both of which to me where easy. one was easy beyond dispute, so thats one more easy win over holy than bowe had.

of course you will argue that holys fights with lewis were 3 yrs after his last fight with bowe and he was over the hill. of course in doing so you woul dhave to ignore that coming into the 1st fight he was the world heavyweight champion, #1 in the world, and riding high off two crushing knockouts over two live and dangerous defending champs mike tyson and michael moorer.

oh and since we're comparing success v similar opponents, lets not forget golota!

golota v bowe 1: golota completely dominates and hammers bowe.

golota v bowe 2: golota completely dominates and hammers bowe, and retires him permanently.

lewis v golota: lewis does to golota in 90 seconds what bowe couldnt do in 16 rounds of boxing, which is completely overpower and wipe out golota.

oh and using oliver mccalls 'ex-tyson sparring partner' is lame beyond belief. are sparring partners not entitled to have sucess? is it not a credit to mccall that he was consistently used to prepare the man who was then the best heavyweight in the world? does that mean larry holmes is a bum too? he was a muhammad ali sparring partner! shame on all those shitty fighters who lost to just another sparring partner bum like larry holmes!!

nit picking every 'fault' in lewis's record is also lame because the same can be done to your man and proves nothing. watch this-

riddick bowe who struggled to a close split decision over obese career loser garing lane.

bowe who was knocked out in 2 rds by lennox lewis in the olympics.

bowe who struggled against another obese career loser in eddie gonzales.

bowe who was nearly knocked out and struggled to beat a light hitting, washed up tyrell biggs, who was subsequently easily knocked out in 3 rds by lennox lewis.

bowe who needed to use low blows to beat a guy as ordinary as pierre coetzer.

bowe who struggled against a completely shot pinklon thomas, who was KOd in 1 rd by tommy morrison in his next fight.

bowe who was nearly knocked out by a dead body with hepititis.

bowe who was retired by a man KOd in 1 rd in his next fight.

see? this kind of argument is weak. what other weak arguments have you got for me?

guys, lewis would knock out bowe. bowe didnt hit like vitali klitschko, who couldnt shift a nearly 40 year old lewis. bowe was knocked silly by punches from tyrell biggs, holyfield and golota, none of whom are punchers liek lewis.

bowe was easy to hit and disregarded defence.

lewis is difficult to hit and sets his opponents up.

if bowe made it out of round 2, i'd be very surprised.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 02 Oct 2003, 12:47

Don't forget all the times he was hurt by Herbie Hide, and Larry Donald.

Give Bowe some credit though, I say... 7th round KO for Lewis.

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 02 Oct 2003, 13:13

i do actually like bowe you know. the fella did have a helluva lot of talent, and i'd love to see him fight some of the smaller great champs in boxing history, but if one guy is just MADE for waxing him in quick time its lennox lewis.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 03 Oct 2003, 04:33

It looks like we will never agree on this subject.

IMO Bowe beats Lewis any day, and you have said nothing to change that opinion.

Why dont we move onto another thread.

Tyson (1988) vs Lewis(1996)

I'm not sure who wins this one.

jsc1973 · Post by **jsc1973** » 03 Oct 2003, 05:02

I'd go with Bowe if he and Lewis were both in their primes, but it's Bowe's fault that we never found out for sure.

No way Ruddock would beat Bowe in his prime. Ruddock was a puncher with a suspect chin who would be facing a man who was never stopped in his career.