Hagler interview on defeat to SRL.

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 06 Apr 2007, 09:26

By Ant Evans: Marvelous Marvin Hagler’s contentious 12 round points defeat to nemesis Sugar Ray Leonard took place exactly 20 years ago today (April 6) and has now divided two generations of fight fans. Former welterweight champion Leonard, as you will know, came out of three year retirement to challenge the seemingly unstoppable Hagler at Ceasars Palace in Las Vegas.

The result was a hugely controversial 12 round split decision for Leonard which remains a combustible topic of conversation to this day. Feeling his media darling opponent had been gifted a decision on the basis on a handful of flashy tricks, Hagler left the ring angry and disgusted and never fought again.

On the two decade anniversary of the fight, SecondsOut represents excerpts from an earlier interview with Hagler on the subject of one of the most controversial fight decisions of all time.

Hager began: “As a fighter, I respect Ray Leonard very much, very much. But as a man, I don’t really respect him, not as a person. He ran like a rabbit all night and tried to steal the fight by using a few flashy tricks here and there rather than winning the three minutes of each round, which I feel I did.

“There’s no question in my mind that I won that fight - there’s never been any question in my mind that I won that fight. That’s how I feel. A few years ago during a HBO programme he basically admitted to he lost that fight, which was good of him, but he never wanted anything to do with me after the quiet beating I gave him.

“Anyway, many, many fans believe I won the fight with Ray and – if anything – the majority of people out there think I won it and that is something important. So I let all that go – that was yesterday. I’m happy with my achievements in life.”

After the controversial Las Vegas decision, Hagler gave the Sugarman a one-year deadline to agree to the rematch but Leonard insisted the bout was a one-off and he had retired forever. As good as his word, the Marvelous One – who had no interest in any other opponent – quit the sport (Sugar Ray, though, was back in the ring the following year and, in fact, actually had his final bout in 1997 in an ill-conceived and ill fated fight with Hector Camacho Senior).

Now aged 53, Hagler believes everything may have worked out for the best.

“Now, years later, I realise losing that controversial decision could have been one of the best things to happen to me. If I’d have been given the decision I would almost certainly have continued boxing and (chased) Carlos Monzon’s record (the most defences of the middleweight title).

“That would have taken another year and I would have kept going after my prime, and that would have been sad because after 65 fights and 14 years as a professional it was time to bow out; and a lot of times that ‘one last fight’ is a huge mistake.

“So, in some ways, I am thankful I lost the decision to Ray Leonard in Las Vegas.”

Content and wealthy, Hagler is a boxing success story. Some estimate he earned around $20million as a fighter and, 20 years after his final bout, he continues to make a very comfortable income just by being Marvelous Marvin Hagler, signing autographs, and doing after dinner speaking.

“I’ve no regrets,” the icon said. “No, even the fact that Ray never gave me the rematch doesn’t matter anymore. I’m happy with the opportunities I had, the titles I won, I’m happy with my life and the way I think I’ll be remembered.”

I'm happy Marvin is now content and happier than he maybe was years ago. For a long time, Marvin seemed to be angry & bitter about losing to Ray, but I guess with hindsight, Marvin has become mature and mellowed.

Interesting to hear about the 12 month deadline for a rematch. I know Ray did not want to box for 15 rounds and I guess he wasn't too keen to give Marvin a chance for revenge.

Wonder what would have happened had a second bout happened within the 12 month period of the first fight? One thing's for sure, is that I feel Marvin would have been more aggressive and would have probably started southpaw, rather than orthodox.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 06 Apr 2007, 11:07

Good words from Marvin, and good to hear he is happy and contented after everything he did for boxing

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 06 Apr 2007, 16:01

....... after everything he did for boxing........

What did he ever do for boxing? He misled many fans to thinking that a plodding southpaw is some short of champion and what boxing is about.

Good riddance I say to the southpaw sloth who dragged the beauty and foot work of boxing down to the level of a saturday night hill-billy square dance.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 06 Apr 2007, 16:08

ringsider wrote:
....... after everything he did for boxing........
What did he ever do for boxing? He misled many fans to thinking that a plodding southpaw is some short of champion and what boxing is about.

Good riddance I say to the southpaw sloth who dragged the beauty and foot work of boxing down to the level of a saturday night hill-billy square dance.

Ringlicker, that hillbilly analogy was quite funny. You have a good turn of phrase on occasion

Any other fighters you can put us right about?

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 06 Apr 2007, 17:02

Hagler did get jobbed that night in Vegas....He beat SRL without a question in my mind.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 06 Apr 2007, 17:35

ringsider wrote:
....... after everything he did for boxing........
What did he ever do for boxing? He misled many fans to thinking that a plodding southpaw is some short of champion and what boxing is about.

Good riddance I say to the southpaw sloth who dragged the beauty and foot work of boxing down to the level of a saturday night hill-billy square dance.

What an idiot . . .

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 06 Apr 2007, 20:52

Ringlicker, that hillbilly analogy was quite funny. You have a good turn of phrase on occasion

Yeh, once in a while a funny one comes to me.

But that is what Hagler's foot work was like. Really tough to watch. IMHO

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 07 Apr 2007, 12:22

I'm one of those who really thinks Monzon was the best MW of all time, but I have to tell you I rarely feel the need to say bad things about other great fighters. Hagler was exceptional and his still viewable achievements in the ring are proof of his excellence. Monzon himself could not be guaranteed of a victory over Marvin if they would have shared the same era. When any two greats enter the ring there are to many opportunities for a "loose cannon" moment and all the "predictablitly" goes out the window. Boxing history is littered with these examples.

I'm also one of those who also thinks Ray beat Hagler that night. I think he did it with a strategy that would not have worked if Hagler would have pressed the issue a bit more, but he didn't and the rest is history. His losses to Monroe and Leonard indicate that he could be outslicked on occasion. But his wins over Duran, Hearns and many others show that on certain nights no one could beat him.

What I'm trying to say is that great fighters like Hagler are SO NOT defined by there occasional displayed deficits but by their OFTEN displayed brilliance.

The ideas that I have read recently on this forum, namely that some truly great fighters (in this case Hagler) are bums are always entertaining. I just hope that NO ONE takes these off handed ill informed probably drug or alcohol influenced statements seriously. I don't even think the contributors believe half of their own words when it comes to matters like this.

Now if you want to talk about a bum that ended up with a Championship there are plenty to choose from....but Hagler?

These incendiary statements are ever popular and attention getting, as we all know.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 07 Apr 2007, 12:26

Did Hagler give Leonard a 'beating'?

I must have missed that!!!!

Anyway, it's good to see that the bitterness has subsided a little bit for Marvin.

It was no way for a great champion like him to leave a sport that he had graced with such distinction.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 07 Apr 2007, 13:21

Did Hagler give Leonard a 'beating'?

Well according to one judge who had the fight 118-110. I didn't see the same figher he saw, but 118-110 is a beating on the score card.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 07 Apr 2007, 14:45

What's this obsession with Hagler's footwork ? With the exception of the Leonard fight, he consistently cut off the ring on his opponents, and 52 KO's says I'm right.

Take a long look at the IBHOF and you'll see a few enshrinees who didn't have particularly good footwork.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 07 Apr 2007, 16:57

Take a long look at the IBHOF and you'll see a few enshrinees who didn't have particularly good footwork.

Yeh but Hagler's plodding was worse, because he was a southpaw foot in the bucket fighter. He was constantly off balance.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 07 Apr 2007, 17:46

ringsider wrote:
Take a long look at the IBHOF and you'll see a few enshrinees who didn't have particularly good footwork.
Yeh but Hagler's plodding was worse, because he was a southpaw foot in the bucket fighter. He was constantly off balance.

Hagler's footwork against Leonard was better than Leonard's footwork against Camacho

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 07 Apr 2007, 20:54

Your right. That is the only good thing Camacho ever did.

KO Ray Leonard.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 07 Apr 2007, 21:27

Yeah you're right. It ranks up there with Kevin McBride's win over Tyson.

Glassjaw · Post by **Glassjaw** » 15 Apr 2007, 14:55

Hagler has been whining for years about this loss, a fight that I believe Sugar Ray clearly won. Sugar Ray had a plan, executed it and won the fight. He was a great welterweight who beat a great middleweight, no easy feat. Remember Ray was coming off a stretch where he had one fight in five years, and still schooled Hagler. I don't believe Ray ever told Hagler that the Hagler beat him, that is silly. Ray made Hagler a lot of money and sent him to what is a good retirement. Time for the Brockton Baby to face facts, he was outboxed by a hall of famer, no shame there.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 15 Apr 2007, 15:48

It was a great fight. I don't think it's fair to say Leonard "ran", I think there's a clear difference between running and boxing. But I thought Hagler deserved the decision, though it could have gone either way. In the end he shouldn't have agreed to a 12 rounder, but the fight probably wouldn't have happened in that case. Also, Hagler, as he indicated, was getting older. Prime Hagler does not lose to Leonard IMO.

As for Hagler's footwork... I don't agree. And Hagler was not a plodder in a majority of his defenses, he out boxed most of his opponents. I agree with the poster who spoke of Hagler cutting off the ring... Hagler was great at that... Hearns being the obvious example.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 15 Apr 2007, 20:53

Right, but I wouldn't classify what Leonard did as 'running' per se. To me, Hakkar against Hopkins is running. Leonard to me was using the ring, boxing... I don't think it's the same thing. Hagler doesn't seem to think so, even though Hagler himself boxed, moved around, even *gasp* backpeddaled in a few fights. I like Hagler, but I disagree with him on this issue.

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 15 Apr 2007, 20:59

Seamus wrote:What's this obsession with Hagler's footwork ? With the exception of the Leonard fight, he consistently cut off the ring on his opponents, and 52 KO's says I'm right.

Take a long look at the IBHOF and you'll see a few enshrinees who didn't have particularly good footwork.

ringsider probably thinks what he saw in leonard-Benitez demonstrates brilliant footwork from two of the sport's best slicksters. You know the type.

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 15 Apr 2007, 21:05

I Feel Fine wrote:Right, but I wouldn't classify what Leonard did as 'running' per se. To me, Hakkar against Hopkins is running. Leonard to me was using the ring, boxing... I don't think it's the same thing. Hagler doesn't seem to think so, even though Hagler himself boxed, moved around, even *gasp* backpeddaled in a few fights. I like Hagler, but I disagree with him on this issue.

I actually liked leonard in this fight, win or lose. that was the best I ever saw him in a fight. of course, he didn't have too many fights to begin with.

To be perfectly fair, though, when was the last time anyone had an opponent in front of them who was that slow? It was like fighting Kalule all over again only slower. As Ray had told commentator Ryan before the fight, Hagler lost all his speed.

Now had that been Terry Norris in front of him.....he wasn't like the other guys Ray was fighting at the time (stiff, old, broken down, etc)

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 16 Apr 2007, 01:12

I agree Hagler had gotten a lot slower. However, I don't think you can say Ray never fought a guy with speed... Benitez was pretty fast, and Hearns had fast hands.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Apr 2007, 02:17

Good for Hagler that he let all his demons and baggage go. I really believe that he won the fight against Ray Leonard, who had every single advantage in his favor (bigger gloves, 12 rounds, Las Vegas, etc). But such is life, boxing is like that from time to time.'

If there ever was a fight I ever though Marvin might have lost, was to Roberto Duran. That was much much closer than the judges made it out to be. But hey, these things happen. Still doesn't take away from Marvin one iota, I believe he was a top 5 MW irregardless. Only Monzon, Robinson and Greb accomplished more.

Your mental superior · Post by **Your mental superior** » 16 Apr 2007, 04:23

Hagler is lying. If he has proven anything it is that he is the biggest baby in the history of sports. He will never let the loss to Ray go. He might say it, but no way does Marvin crybaby Hagler believe it. Ray Leonard is my least favorite fighter well top 5 of my bottom 5.

Hagler not only lost the fight; he gave it away by showboating much like Hopkins did with Taylor. I have failed several times in my life but never have I given my chance away like the weeping willow Hagler did.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 16 Apr 2007, 13:31

I thought both Hopkins and Hagler should have won in their last Middleweight fights...

As for Hagler being orthodox in the early rounds, that's also something he did with Mugabi for the first few rounds, and of course all throughout his career he would often switch orthodox throughout his fights. I'm not sure if he was showboating or what he was thinking against Leonard... has he ever explained it?

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 16 Apr 2007, 14:13

Sir Psycho wrote:Hagler is lying. If he has proven anything it is that he is the biggest baby in the history of sports. He will never let the loss to Ray go. He might say it, but no way does Marvin crybaby Hagler believe it. Ray Leonard is my least favorite fighter well top 5 of my bottom 5. Hagler not only lost the fight; he gave it away by showboating much like Hopkins did with Taylor. I have failed several times in my life but never have I given my chance away like the weeping willow Hagler did.

I agree with much of what you say.

I cannot believe that Leonard ever said that Hagler won that fight.

Most of Leonard's legacy is based on that win over Hagler & even if he really believed he lost, I doubt he would say so.

I too believe that he threw the fight away by faffing about in the 1st 4 rounds, trying to prove that SRL could not psyche him out & all he succeeded in doing was proving that Leonard had psyched him & lost the rounds too.