Taylor wants 10 million

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Apr 2007, 10:13

Think Duddy is a bit raw to be fed to Taylor. It's a good fight in maybe 18 months time if Duddy can impress, what with Duddy's american irish angle, could probably be turned into a big fight.

No way would DLH challenge Taylor, he only challenged Bernard because he was an old boy and thought maybe he could exploit his lack of workrate.

Taylor is WAY too big for Oscar to handle. Although, having said that, Taylor did look awful against Ouma, really really knackered out after only two rounds of hard fighting.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 16 Apr 2007, 10:18

$10M seems too high, I don't think Dibella/Taylor want this fight. Why no counter offers?

The only reason Taylor got $5M to fight Winky was because HBO added $6.5M to the pot. http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=2326480
The original sums were $3M for Winky and $4M for Taylor but Winky moaned and HBO jumped on board to make both parties happy. Why can't HBO do the same for a Calzaghe-Taylor matchup, which would surely sell much better than his fight with Winky. This could even be a PPV.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 16 Apr 2007, 10:29

MightyWarrior wrote:Not sure what type of crowd Taylor pulls, but I'd guess HBO would prefer the fight in Wales, just for the huge crowd and atmosphere - they love that sort of thing.

10 mill is HUGE money, completely unrealistic, and 4 mill is probably much more than Taylor has ever earned before - he's not exactly box office is he?

This is what I was thinking but maybe I'm wrong.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 16 Apr 2007, 10:32

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Pavlik/Miranda seems likely to be a $5-6m earner at home and both can be outboxed.

Not by a clumsy oaf like Taylor. I think either will lay him out cold.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Apr 2007, 10:35

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Think Duddy is a bit raw to be fed to Taylor. It's a good fight in maybe 18 months time if Duddy can impress, what with Duddy's american irish angle, could probably be turned into a big fight.

No way would DLH challenge Taylor, he only challenged Bernard because he was an old boy and thought maybe he could exploit his lack of workrate.

Taylor is WAY too big for Oscar to handle. Although, having said that, Taylor did look awful against Ouma, really really knackered out after only two rounds of hard fighting.

Taylor was weird v Ouma. He hated having to work, but he landed some awesome fast power shots that might stop a lot of middles.

PN makes a good point. Taylor could face his mandatory, Pavlik did look hittable in his last fight and Miranda marks up and was out-boxed by Abrahams. Taylor-Duddy at MSG would be a huge draw if both get through their next fights.

A tasty fight for Taylor on the grounds of Duddy's marketability as a white brawler. But if Taylor can boil down to fight Spinks, Pav/Pantera and Duddy I'll be surprised.

If he ends up fighting Pav, it'd be a punishing fight, the kind that maks it hard to keep dragging weight after.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 16 Apr 2007, 10:50

Terence wrote:
lvlarc wrote:$10M seems too high, I don't think Dibella/Taylor want this fight. Why no counter offers?

The only reason Taylor got $5M to fight Winky was because HBO added $6.5M to the pot. http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=2326480
The original sums were $3M for Winky and $4M for Taylor but Winky moaned and HBO jumped on board to make both parties happy. Why can't HBO do the same for a Calzaghe-Taylor matchup, which would surely sell much better than his fight with Winky. This could even be a PPV.
Wasn't the $10 million the counter-offer? Now it is up to SN to whittle that down.

PN makes a good point. Taylor could face his mandatory, Pavlik did look hittable in his last fight and Miranda marks up and was out-boxed by Abrahams. Taylor-Duddy at MSG would be a huge draw if both get through their next fights.

No I mean an offer from Dibella to promote the fight in states, or co-promote with HBO's backing. If they could offer Winky a career-high $5M for the rematch then surely Calzaghe would appreciate that sum.

Here it says Taylor earned only $3.75M. and Winky $3.5M

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=2489618

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 16 Apr 2007, 11:04

Regardless of SN's reply it wouldn't hurt for them to make an offer, or for HBO to show some interest. They are not exactly heading down the right path now are they. I do think Calzaghe would fight in the states for $5M. Ah well, fingers crossed.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Apr 2007, 11:06

Terence wrote:
Final Fight wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Think Duddy is a bit raw to be fed to Taylor. It's a good fight in maybe 18 months time if Duddy can impress, what with Duddy's american irish angle, could probably be turned into a big fight.

No way would DLH challenge Taylor, he only challenged Bernard because he was an old boy and thought maybe he could exploit his lack of workrate.

Taylor is WAY too big for Oscar to handle. Although, having said that, Taylor did look awful against Ouma, really really knackered out after only two rounds of hard fighting.
Taylor was weird v Ouma. He hated having to work, but he landed some awesome fast power shots that might stop a lot of middles.

PN makes a good point. Taylor could face his mandatory, Pavlik did look hittable in his last fight and Miranda marks up and was out-boxed by Abrahams. Taylor-Duddy at MSG would be a huge draw if both get through their next fights.
A tasty fight for Taylor on the grounds of Duddy's marketability as a white brawler. But if Taylor can boil down to fight Spinks, Pav/Pantera and Duddy I'll be surprised.

If he ends up fighting Pav, it'd be a punishing fight, the kind that maks it hard to keep dragging weight after.
I thought Taylor picked some nice shots against Ouma and it was a definite improvement in his punching technique.

Ouma seemed to have one of those nights where he was insatiable. Given his ill-discipline the extra poundage probably suited him a little and he is one of the guys with a natural engine that can keep him going.

Going off-topic a little I watched Edouard-Gibbs again last night. Whew! Taylor did well to stop Daniel. Gibbs fell apart after that bout yet early-on he looked a serious puncher at 160.

No I mean an offer from Dibella to promote the fight in states, or co-promote with HBO's backing. If they could offer Winky a career-high $5M for the rematch then surely Calzaghe would appreciate that sum
Ok, can you imagine the SN reply to that? Calzaghe has hardly shown any desire to fight abroad before and SN explicitly state they are in the business of getting their guys home advantage.

Any US-based counter-offer is doomed to failure and would take the negotiations off at a tangent.

Neither party is covering themselves in glory right now but why make a derisory offer for the fight to take place here in the first place? It just starts the negotiations off on a bad footing.

This fight will probably go into Joe's resume along with the other fights marked: "Well we did try!" They will out-weight the other part of his resume marked: "Significant fights (that actually took place in the ring, not in press cuttings)."

Whilst Taylor landed some lusty punches in the first couple of rounds, his workrate was truly awful and I think if he'd had any kind of stamina in that fight, he should have been able to flatten Ouma.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Apr 2007, 11:22

I think it would be Taylor, moe than Kessler, to be bothered by Calzaghe. Based on fitness and workrate, because for all his talent Taylor is a guy who backs up in straight lines. While not in his nature, Kessler showed he can move with the beautiful sidestepping he used to set up Andrade and whack him from the blindside.

If Kessler were required to move forward, that would be a big issue. He's great at holding the middle of the ring (Taylor take note), can use subtle sidesteps, but Im not convinced about his forward gear...He had fits v Mundine's shoulder rolling and blocking. Whereas Calzaghe is a guy who can close the ditance very fast..In that area only I see Joe as superior on his feet.

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 16 Apr 2007, 11:35

Tszyu only got $5,000,000 for his defense against Hatton. Kostya was a modern day great & ranked high in the P4P ratings at the time. There's no way Taylor will receive a pursue of $10,000,000 for Calzaghe or anything near that sum.

I don't think allegedly allegedly would go higher than $5,000,000. Really can't see the fight happening at all now.

Joe has said that he doesn't care whom he fights next, just so long as it's the fight with the most financial gain for him. Well, the way things are going, I think Joe's lucrative options are running out.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Apr 2007, 13:17

Kessler inept? I read an article about his "inept counters" and I thought that was a load of bollocks.

Like I've said before, Kessler is not a mobile guy so it was going to look a little awkward with him moving side to side so much. Important thing is that he adapted to the job efficiently, something Calzaghe could do with (for all Joe's talent he makes fights more difficult than they need to be).

I'd say it was more to do with Kessler stepping outside when he sensed Andrade's punches coming in. Making Andrade stumble off balance. It was either going to be a straight right or a left hook and Kessler did the smart thing by moving over the side as it came and jolting the guy where he was open. It wasn't fluid but it was effective and I doubt anyone else would have kept the Mexican under wraps as effectively.

Kessler's timing is excellent and he's controlled some good fighters that others would make a meal of.

Taylor has better punch variety than Kessler, but his pacing, stamina, and positioning are inferior. Jermain fights small, lets smaller guys get onto him and backs up...We've yet to see how he will be punished for this vs a puncher. Kessler fights some big blokes, and 95% of the time keeps them safely in the middle of the ring...Imagine Taylor backing up v Andrade? Variety or not he'd be in trouble.

Not sure about Joe boxing circles round Kessler but I hope I get to find out. We've never really seen Joe in with an elite class fighter who will box. Kessler would have to show more than one twos, but so far he's had all the solutions vs some good comp. I think he's a special fighter who will rise to a lot of challenges.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Apr 2007, 14:46

Maybe Kessler's lack of variety would let him down vs Joe. Maybe not. I have the feeling that his career isn't dependent on throwing a left hook after his jab-right, and that his ability to control distance at this level wil stand him in good stead. Joe certainly has the advantage in pace - something Kessler would not cope well with if stuck too close - and fluidity.

One this I'd feel queusy about Joe vs Taylor would be how he can get taged by right hands and how he may not like body shots. Considering the rockets that Taylor was throwing in his last fight. But looking at how Taylor disliked the pace Ouma set, I can see Jermain really getting bullied.

One thing is certain but quite sad. If either Kessler or Taylor got walloped by Calzaghe, each would be dismissed as a Lacy-esque incompetent (something Lacy wasn't exactly...). We'd never hear the end of 'American hype' or 'poor super middleweight division'.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 17 Apr 2007, 05:23

Twinkle Toes wrote:
Ben Keilty wrote:
It may be a good offer but for these fighters to come to Joes backyard they deserve it, Why the hell dosn't Calzaghe go to the states and fight then there would be no problem with the money.
Using that logic, then Joe can demand 10 million to go into someone else's backyard :)

And there lies one of the huge issue with boxing today.

Well apart from boxing circles no one out of UK knows who Calzaghe is, Most people at least know of Taylor as he beat the great Bernard Hopkins.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 17 Apr 2007, 05:27

If you asked all my mates at football who Jermaine Taylor was they tell he sang "You dont have to take your clothes off, to have a good time" in the Eighties.

Ask them about Calzaghe and they say, he's that boxer isn't he? I saw him on Question of Sport the other week.

Weight division? No idea, he wasn't as big as Tyson but he looked bigger than Naseem

Best opponent? Didn't he beat Eubank?

Future opponent? Dunno? What weight is Ricky Hatton?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Apr 2007, 05:42

Ben Keilty wrote:
Twinkle Toes wrote:
Ben Keilty wrote:
It may be a good offer but for these fighters to come to Joes backyard they deserve it, Why the hell dosn't Calzaghe go to the states and fight then there would be no problem with the money.
Using that logic, then Joe can demand 10 million to go into someone else's backyard :)

And there lies one of the huge issue with boxing today.
Well apart from boxing circles no one out of UK knows who Calzaghe is, Most people at least know of Taylor as he beat the great Bernard Hopkins.

Bernard embarrassed himself. Why take the fights if all you're going to do is skip around the ring, try the occasional inside the glove cuff/head butt and start fighting only when the other guy is confused?

I don't think America's warmed to Taylor. Hard to look good over 36 rds v Hopkins and Wright and he's found his earner as a hometown fighter.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Apr 2007, 05:47

Taylor is also already talking about retirement, at the age of 28. Taylor for me, isn't the future of anything. I think he has a lot of talent, and great physical tools, but I don't think he's in love with the sport. If you're already contemplating retirement when you've not even hit your peak, then something's wrong.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Apr 2007, 06:21

Anyone think Taylor has the stamina to last with Joe?

Taylor's very talented but sort of reluctant. Reminds me a bit of Eubank. I wonder if Taylor would fight best with his back to the wall, like Eubank did. Or would he be permanently dented like David Reid...

Can't argue with what Taylor's doing too much. While Joe has prolonged things as long as he can to make money, Taylor wants to make as much $ in a short time.

Joe vs Taylor would solve a lot of problems. Would be very nice to see Taylor and how he performs abroad. And if it takes a highly rated Yank to bring the best out of Joe in his backyard, it's hard to complain.

Looks like Warren has to make it a tempting retirement cash in for Taylor. I'll bet it could work out for £3.5 to £4mil.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 17 Apr 2007, 07:32

Are we all asking the wrong questions? What about - why have Team Calazage and Team Taylor made offers/claims exclusively through the media (perhaps via a fax machine) without sitting down at a negotiating table to negotiate the details of the fight and to negotiate what each fighter is worth/due. Both sides are posturing.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 17 Apr 2007, 07:38

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Are we all asking the wrong questions? What about - why have Team Calazage and Team Taylor made offers/claims exclusively through the media (perhaps via a fax machine) without sitting down at a negotiating table to negotiate the details of the fight and to negotiate what each fighter is worth/due. Both sides are posturing.

Yeah definately, this is just the ringwalk and round 1.

I expect JT will take alot less than $10m, but wants to up the $4m offered.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 Apr 2007, 08:35

Ben Keilty wrote:
Twinkle Toes wrote:
Ben Keilty wrote:
It may be a good offer but for these fighters to come to Joes backyard they deserve it, Why the hell dosn't Calzaghe go to the states and fight then there would be no problem with the money.
Using that logic, then Joe can demand 10 million to go into someone else's backyard :)

And there lies one of the huge issue with boxing today.
Well apart from boxing circles no one out of UK knows who Calzaghe is, Most people at least know of Taylor as he beat the great Bernard Hopkins.

The same can be said for Mundine.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:03

I can see what your saying Terry regarding Kessler, but for me you don't need to be a combination puncher to give a good account vs Joe. For me the three best performances (and the three guys closest to upsetting Joe) was Robin Reid, Sakio Bika and Richie Woodhall.

Now, neither of these are particularly fluid 4-5 punch combination fighters.... Although all have a good 1-2.

If Kessler fights the way he fought Beyer (which was unusual for him according to the reports on here about his handling of Southpaws) then he will give an EXCELLENT account vs Joe.... He will certainly pose MAJOR questions.

I think Taylor is a little too authodox and not adaptive enough.

You need to lead with the straight right hand.... I'm getting a little tired of saying it. 3 guys did, and the three caused some problems. Every round in which Bika threw straight right hand after straight right hand, he won. Same with Rob Reid.... Woodhall started with the straight right hand attacks but eventually wilted.

Its was Charles Brewer's pet punch but he never threw it in his fight, instead tried a looping right hand and left hook..... its got to be a straight hand threw the guard and onto the nose. Kessler did it a treat vs Beyer.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:04

Oh right. I think Kessler's a fighter who looks somewhat stiff and can appear beatable. But has a way of measuring the opposition and winning very convincingly at the top level.

But I like his composure and sturdiness. I do hear that he has bad back problems - maybe this is why he doesn't like adding a left hook to his 1-2s, who knows?

I like Taylor, but he keeps fighting guys who can make him look bad (i.e. Spinks). Maybe its best if Taylor gets a couple more emphatic style wins, to cement himself as an outstanding champion. It would e a bit of a tragedy if he was to jump straight up, lose to say a Calzaghe or Kessler, and then retire on the payday...

The one thing that concerned me about Kessler was that his head is so stationary. In a way, Joe vs Kessler COULD look like water vs scissors. But ultimately I see a classy fight in which Joe seizes the tempo, before Kessler adjusts and finds the fight distance, and the resulting back-and-forth for physical/tactical supremacy in a quality fight. These are the kind of fights where Joe can show exactly what he has.

For a more compact, tidy guy with a better arsenal of punches, I'd recommend checking out Denis Inkin. Good at controlling a fight with his feet as much as his fists and throws some lovely jabs, hooks and rights...But contrary to Kessler he looks fragile. I can't understand why Denis isn't making bog noise about fighting Joe - he's the WBO #1 and said months ago he was sick of warmup fights.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:12

stujones wrote:I can see what your saying Terry regarding Kessler, but for me you don't need to be a combination puncher to give a good account vs Joe. For me the three best performances (and the three guys closest to upsetting Joe) was Robin Reid, Sakio Bika and Richie Woodhall.

Now, neither of these are particularly fluid 4-5 punch combination fighters.... Although all have a good 1-2.

If Kessler fights the way he fought Beyer (which was unusual for him according to the reports on here about his handling of Southpaws) then he will give an EXCELLENT account vs Joe.... He will certainly pose MAJOR questions.

I think Taylor is a little too authodox and not adaptive enough.

You need to lead with the straight right hand.... I'm getting a little tired of saying it. 3 guys did, and the three caused some problems. Every round in which Bika threw straight right hand after straight right hand, he won. Same with Rob Reid.... Woodhall started with the straight right hand attacks but eventually wilted.

Its was Charles Brewer's pet punch but he never threw it in his fight, instead tried a looping right hand and left hook..... its got to be a straight hand threw the guard and onto the nose. Kessler did it a treat vs Beyer.

definitely the right is the key. I actually thought Woods would be interesting because he throws a good short right - uppercut/hook combo (rather than down the pipe). If Joe leaned in that'd be a good shot...Hopefulyl Froch gets a shot at Joe, since both sides are negotiating. I wouldn't quite call Carl's right "straight" (LOL), but would be interested to see the effect on Joe.

Can't think of a fighter with a really straight right, in the middle to light heavy region. Inkin, I suppose. Mundine's a pretty correct puncher but hopefully isn't tame anymore. Glen Johnson telegraphs and wangs his a bit. Paul Briggs has a sneaky, vicious one that's hard to see coming.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:15

Thing about Johnson is that he's not a bad mover, he rolls in nicely, and whilst he certainly isn't a straight puncher, it's not always easy to read where the next hook is coming from.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Apr 2007, 13:19

He's a really good veteran. Was flawless against Richard Hall, turning his shoulder in and countering with right hand after right hand.

Imagine, if he'd got the decision over Woods, Calzaghe would've got his 'superfight' already!