HAYE & MACCA= NO CHANCE AT ALL v MORMECK or BELL

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 18 Apr 2007, 04:50

I watched Mormeck/Bell II last night, and can safely say that neither Haye or Macca have a snowballs chance in hell of beating either of these hard nuts.

They literally went at it hell for leather for 12 rds, battled through exhaustion and repeatedly took and landed brutal full power shots, the fight was pure world class hard b#stards.

The only time Haye has been in a remotely similar fight was when he was outlasted by domestic/fringe European class 40 yr old Carl Thompson who banged him out, plus down v Lolenga Mock, and a tendancy to look ragged whenever made to work at a pace, i just cant see Haye surviving past 3 or 4 rds.

As for Macca... hes huge bust doesn't use his size. Comes forward and eats punches. He gets bombed out too.

Surely anybody who has watched this awesome fight can see the massive gulf between Mormeck and Bell and our cruisers?

No wonder Haye prefers his chances v big slow cumbersome heavies whilst Warren will keep Macca for the idiots in wales and cling onto the sh#tty WBO belt.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Apr 2007, 05:05

I don't know myself. Mormeck has bad stamina. I give Macca a better chance than Haye because he looks the sturdier and more powerful right now.

Bell's very raw and IMO a good jab can negate him.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 18 Apr 2007, 05:41

Bad stamina for MORMECK?? They guy fought through exhaustion and was still swinging hard at the 12th!!

If you want to see bad stamina see Thompson/Haye.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 18 Apr 2007, 05:57

Haye has got the skill and power to beat cruiser, not sure hes got the durability to beat Mormeck or Bell, but would give them a great fight.
Macca has got a punchers chance against anyone, but is also vulnerable and lacks Haye's skill. He might even be the bigger puncher. Macca needs to up his opposition level a few notches.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 18 Apr 2007, 06:09

Well i have watched Haye, and he doesnt seem to have a very good defense.
He reminds me a bit of a guy he beat himself...Gurov : tall big punch, but not very durable with an open defense and a suspect chin.
Mormeck would weather the storm, get inside, and beat him down to the body.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Apr 2007, 06:12

overhand_right wrote:Bad stamina for MORMECK?? They guy fought through exhaustion and was still swinging hard at the 12th!!

If you want to see bad stamina see Thompson/Haye.

Mormeck fought fiercely for 7 or 8 then ran blatantly over the last 1/3. He needs to wise up & pace himself. Good fighter, but I've gone off him a bit.

Les Kendal · Post by **Les Kendal** » 18 Apr 2007, 07:30

I was watcing a couple of David Haye's fights the other day and I agree that his defence is pretty poor. Especially when under pressure. Fragomeni was finding the target with ease.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 18 Apr 2007, 07:44

Fragomeni is totally 1 dimentional and the only thing he was doing was walking straight forward with his hands low and throwing straight looping punches with little power into them...yet he managed to open up a very bad cut and push Haye into his limits.
imagine the same scenario with Mormeck, who is very good at bobing and weaving, and throws wild accurate combinations to the face and the body, with a lot more power.
Or Bell who is relentless with huge power bombs and a rock chin.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 18 Apr 2007, 08:22

Yes it did spoil it because you knew after 8 rds Mormeck had it and he only needed to survive.

If your gonna get knackered in a bout v a 40 yr old, then Bell or Mormeck.... i think he prefers his chances potshotting big slow heavies. He doesn't want to risk mixing it up with Skelton or Williams and already has a spin on that scenario. Think he wants to pick and choose guys like Guinn to get to a title shot.

And he still loads up.

JC · Post by JC » 18 Apr 2007, 08:24

I agree Mormeck and bell are bad match-ups for Haye stylewise. As mentioned Mormeck is very good at bobbing and weaving to get on the inside, although his defence is far from water-tight and his head can be pretty static sometimes. Despite this I think Haye's Bob Foster type stance might play into Mormeck's hands a little.

I like haye though and hope he does well, he's got the potential to be a big star with his personality and seems to want the big fights unlike some other British fighters.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 18 Apr 2007, 08:27

Let's hope we get the chance to find out if Haye can compete with Mormeck.
Hope he does'nt just stick it out at heavy if all goes well against Bonin.
Mormeck will start favourite should they fight,but Haye has undobuted quality.

As for Macca against either of these two?
Never in a million,million years will Warren be prepared to put Enzo in with either.
How big a step up would that be from the absolute shit he faced last time out??!
He would get eaten!

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Apr 2007, 08:38

I think Haye is best suited to beat Bell. Bell is clueless against a good jab (Dale Brown, Rothmann).

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 18 Apr 2007, 08:38

Terry D wrote: Mormeck gassed a bit in fight one and by the sounds of it hit 'preserve' in this fight and he also loads-up a lot himself.
.

1. Gassing in 10 v the best in Bell is leagues above falling apart v Thompson of all people
2. the fight was open scoring- Mormeck knew after 8 he had it in the bag. Again he lasted 12 and beat Bell fair & square,as opposed to LKO5 Carl Thompson.

No comparison.

Terry D wrote: Haye lost and if he has learned, and I for one think he has, then it may have been the making of him.

He doesn't appear to have changed to me, still loads up and looked very ragged late v Fragomeni. Would love to see Mormeck/Haye but from what i can see both Mormeck and Bell will marmalise a guy like Haye whos more interested in looking cool & slick then getting drawn into a real fight.

Cant see Haye lasting.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 18 Apr 2007, 08:58

Share similar concerns to you overhand:
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 274#248274

Not much has changed since then apart from Haye upping some respect for his stamina.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 18 Apr 2007, 09:11

Bell would be Haye's slave.

Haye has good hand speed and moves well with the head.

Mormeck's got a tight guard and bobs and weaves but relies on out muscling fighters and Haye's strong for the weight.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 18 Apr 2007, 10:11

Manos de Oro wrote:Share similar concerns to you overhand:
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 274#248274

Not much has changed since then apart from Haye upping some respect for his stamina.

Read your thoughts & yes its still the same. Nice breakdown of Mormecks style and yep once those Haye bombs dont budge him Mormeck will just massacre him.

Never realised just how high quality and dangerous Bell and Mormeck were- no wonder Nelson was happy to stay in the UK with his WBO shitty belt and not press the issue with the top fighters.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 18 Apr 2007, 10:25

And your clinging onto Fragomeni who cant punch and is leagues beneath Mormeck and Bell.

Your love for Haye appears to be clouding your judgement, I'll happily take your money should Mormeck/Haye materialise, which i doubt ti will.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 18 Apr 2007, 10:42

Terry D wrote: Mormeck may well fade late making this a pre-9th shootout between two heavily muscled fighters both of whom can be stopped regardless of levels.

No Mormeck will not fade late : he made a mistake in 1st Bell fight, he showed he learned the lesson in fight II.
moreover Bell is a particular case and is the 1st guy who could take all of Mormeck's shots and fight back...Bell has one tough chin and stamina.
Mormeck tired round 8 because he fought at very high intensity for 8 rounds.
Haye could never stand to such intensity, and Mormeck would never be taken beyond round 8...

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 18 Apr 2007, 10:56

Raff The Frenchman wrote: Mormeck tired round 8 because he fought at very high intensity for 8 rounds.
Haye could never stand to such intensity, and Mormeck would never be taken beyond round 8...

I agree with Raff. Anyone who has actually seen Mormeck/Bell brawl surely can see the vaaaast gulf in class and toughness?

To even suggest Mormeck might beat Haye on points Terry..... like i said, not a snowballs chance in hell. Itll be a shoot out and Haye doesnt have the chin or stamina or mental toughness to live with the scary looking french geezer.You honestyl think Mormeck will let Haye sit back and box like Ismail not a clue Abdoul did???

Im amazed anyone could even think Haye might even win, outside of a very unlikely 'punchers chance' cliche.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 18 Apr 2007, 10:59

Terry D wrote:
Raff The Frenchman wrote:
Terry D wrote: Mormeck may well fade late making this a pre-9th shootout between two heavily muscled fighters both of whom can be stopped regardless of levels.
No Mormeck will not fade late : he made a mistake in 1st Bell fight, he showed he learned the lesson in fight II.
moreover Bell is a particular case and is the 1st guy who could take all of Mormeck's shots and fight back...Bell has one tough chin and stamina.
Mormeck tired round 8 because he fought at very high intensity for 8 rounds.
Haye could never stand to such intensity, and Mormeck would never be taken beyond round 8...
Yes and if Mormeck shares your mind-set the fight will be wide-open for Haye.

We do not know for sure if Mormeck would not fade late again. Open-scoring robbed us of the chance to find out 100% as he could shut-down the fight and sit on his lead, perhaps suggesting that the pace that had been set early-doors could not be sustained by him.

As I say Mormeck is a well-muscled guy, do not be surprised if stamina is an issue in other fights.

Saying Haye could never beat Mormeck or live with him is foolish.

of course this is boxing, and with a puncher, anything can happen...Open scoring didnt rob anyone, Mormeck was tiring, it was logical that he changed tactics and paced himself after seeing Bell would still not fold.
All i'm saying is Haye would never stand to the brutal war that Bell and Mormeck went into.
so unless he finds a perfect gameplan and knocks out Mormeck, there is no way Haye gets past Mormeck

dookus · Post by **dookus** » 18 Apr 2007, 23:46

Terry D wrote:
The only guarantee in boxing is that the fight won't happen

Ne'er a truer word spoken.

fried bread · Post by **fried bread** » 19 Apr 2007, 02:01

Mormeck would grind Haye down. Technically he's a great pressure fighter & looked really compact. He can tire, but Bell practically KO'd him AFTER round 6. The "shameless running" was overexaggerated because he was outboxing Bell in at least 2 of those late rounds.

Bell played his part in a great fight. But pace and inactivity affected him too. And he gave an almost uncommitted performance. He wasn't always throwing clean punches. he'd spend time messing around. JMM deserved the win fully and is NOT on the slide.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 23 Apr 2007, 10:49

Sounds like you popped in the DVD with a very pro-Haye mindset and are exagerrating their weaknesses. You saw a very different fight to everybody else on this thread

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 Apr 2007, 11:19

Terry D wrote:
overhand_right wrote:Sounds like you popped in the DVD with a very pro-Haye mindset and are exagerrating their weaknesses. You saw a very different fight to everybody else on this thread
Download you smart-alec

I'm not even pro-Haye. Mormeck was fooksied and was lucky Bell looked like he trained by lying on his missus pre-fight. Both sets of legs were gone at regular intervals and Bell was really poor in the final stretch.

I'm not saying Haye will do it but if you can throw 20-30 quality shots through the middle early-doors and can keep your leg-strength late you will beat Mormeck.

Can Haye maintain that kind of pace though? Haye has paced himself a lot better since that Thompson fight, but he isn't exactly a workhorse. I don't know the stats off my head, but I would have thought Mormeck's work rate in the early stages was better.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 24 Apr 2007, 05:20

look at the Mormeck vs Braithwaite fight before talking so much BS !
Mormeck had put in place a strategy and kept swinging till last bell rang.
he does know how to pace himself, he just wanted to build a solid lead in the early rounds, and even knock Bell out which seems almost impossible.
Haye is easy to grind down and would get tired before Mormeck.