Ron Stander. How good was he?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 18 Apr 2007, 11:22

How do you rate Heavyweight Ron Stander? In his early career he beat some good fighters such as Earnie Shavers, Manuel Ramos, Thad Spencer, Jack O'Halloran etc. But when he stepped up to the top level he usually took a real beating like when he faced Joe Frazier and Ken Norton. Like many other fighter he fought on too long and at the end of his career lost to fighters he should never have lost to.

But he was a real tough, brave fighter, very thick set and bull strong, so how do you rate 'The Butcher'?

Also

Is the referee Ron Stander the same person?

I noticed he beat Chris Byrds father in 1969.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000240

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Apr 2007, 13:38

He was very tough... probably a fringe contender in his day but if he was around today he would have done much better. He had an excellent chin and good punch, anyone who can beat Shavers must have something... I have his fight with Frazier and he was incredibly game... just stood toe to toe with Joe and even shook him with a shot but in the end had his face bashed to peices... I think he lost heart in the game after that and just became a journeyman.... he's been a referee for sometime, sadly I read a while back that he has dementia...

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 18 Apr 2007, 13:59

Pretty much agree with everything silkov said. Looking at the film one is surprised at actually how athletic Stander was . . he was no clumsy white hope.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 19 Apr 2007, 05:51

Is Jaclem still around? He was ringside when the legendary Candy Slim marmalised Stander in 3 horrific rds! Larry Holmes was on the undercard and got decked v Kevin Isaac.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Apr 2007, 07:26

overhand_right wrote:Is Jaclem still around? He was ringside when the legendary Candy Slim marmalised Stander in 3 horrific rds! Larry Holmes was on the undercard and got decked v Kevin Isaac.

I was at that one with my father as well, although we couldn't afford ringside seats. Merritt looked like the real deal that night, putting a terrific beating on Stander. Of course, the Stander that fought that night wasn't quite the same fighter that fought Frazier, but Merritt really did look like a force. Of course, I think is his own demons led to the quick exit in the Clark fight.

Damn, there really were a lot of great HWs back then. It's certainly no stretch to imagine the Merritt that stomped Stander beating the four clowns currently at the top of the HW heap...

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 19 Apr 2007, 07:29

Wow John, you've seen the infamous Candy Man with your own eyes!! The best i've seen is 1 photo of him. No video tape seems to exist.

Was it his heroin habit that killed his career? Getting iced in 1 v Henry Calrk, especially having beaten Clark and being able to come off the deck v Tiger Williams suggests Merritt was far from his best against Clark.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Apr 2007, 08:11

overhand_right wrote:Wow John, you've seen the infamous Candy Man with your own eyes!! The best i've seen is 1 photo of him. No video tape seems to exist.

Was it his heroin habit that killed his career? Getting iced in 1 v Henry Calrk, especially having beaten Clark and being able to come off the deck v Tiger Williams suggests Merritt was far from his best against Clark.

I would guess that may have been it. I was still pretty young at the time, and although I had been a boxing fan for a number of years, I really didn’t have any inside knowledge. I had sparred at a few gyms and met a few boxers, but was really too shy at that stage of my life to start asking too many questions.

The card was at the old Cleveland Arena, and the attendance wasn’t too bad as I recall. My father and I left the Arena both thinking that Merritt was one of the hardest hitting HWs we had ever seen. And he probably was. Even though we were about half way up the stands you could hear the crack of the shots as they landed on Standers head. Not sure I’ve ever heard punches landing sound quite like that before or since. Stander took a tremendous beating before he went down, but he was one tough SOB. Stander was not in top shape for that fight, but it was still very impressive.

I was absolutely shocked when I heard about the loss to Clark. Clark was a very good veteran fringe contender, but I don’t think anyone expected him to walk through Merritt. I would have really liked to see that fight.

As far as Holmes, I remember that the program for that card had a pretty good write up about him, including statements from Don King saying that Holmes was the future of the HW division. Of course, as you noted, he was dropped by Isaacs, who was a pretty small HW even for that era. But he recovered very quickly and stopped Isaacs cold in the next round. And Isaacs was out for a while. I probably still have the program somewhere, but I haven’t seen it in years. I did recently come across the program for the Wepner-Ali fight and the a few other 70’s cards I attended as well. Very interesting stuff.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Apr 2007, 08:16

Just an additional comment about the Merritt fight. It really was a mutt and Jeff matchup, since Stander was no more than about 5-9 and Merritt was about 6-6. Stander really had no success getting inside against Merritt, who had a pretty good jab in addition to tremendous power. Perhaps if Stander had been in better shape he would have had a little better chance, but I doubt it.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 19 Apr 2007, 10:06

Christ John, the run down of the fight sounds sickeningly brutal. WSince ive never seen him on tape and not qualified to judge, how does THAT Merritt, i.e. off the heroin, still somewhat chinny but by all accounts big skilled and very quick, do against the 3 + 1 wbo champ we currently have?

PS, do you recall how many times Stander was down? Boxrec says several.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Apr 2007, 10:24

overhand_right wrote:Christ John, the run down of the fight sounds sickeningly brutal. WSince ive never seen him on tape and not qualified to judge, how does THAT Merritt, i.e. off the heroin, still somewhat chinny but by all accounts big skilled and very quick, do against the 3 + 1 wbo champ we currently have?

PS, do you recall how many times Stander was down? Boxrec says several.

Maybe three times. He was also a bloody mess at the end. He definitely got the piss beat out of him. I’ve got a magazine account of the fight in the basement somewhere, so I may post a summary of the fight when I find the right issue.

Since I only saw him fight the one time, it’s pretty hard to say how he would do against the 4 current chumps. It’s possible my memory may be glorifying his abilities, but he was VERY quick for such a big guy. And while he was called Candy Slim, he had a lot of his weight in his legs as I recall, and wasn’t really that skinny. And he could really crack.

Since Wlad, Briggs and Maskaev aren’t really noted for their chins, I would expect that Merritt would have had a pretty good shot against them, with of course Wlad being the most difficult. Of course, while Wlad does have skills, he’s hardly the great fighter that most of his fans proclaim, and many times fights very stiff and robotic. If he fought that way against a guy like Merritt, he’d probably get stopped pretty quickly, since Merritt was just about as tall as Wlad and I think he was quicker as well. Of course, as you noted, any of them could probably get him out as well, as his chin probably was his biggest weakness.

Chagaev seems to be a bit sturdier than the others, so may have been the most likely to beat Merritt consistently. Of course, this is all about as speculative as you can get since I only saw him fight once, but it’s hardly a stretch to think that he would have at least been a player today, capable of picking up a trinket on a good night.

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 23 Apr 2007, 16:28

People remember Ron for his gameness & tenacity. That's not the biggest reason though. Ron Stander fought for the Heavyweight Championship of the world on national television in May 1972. If Ron Stander came along to-day nobody would know he existed. It wasn't the fight that made the event. It was the fact the Champ was putting the title on the line. It was also the fact that if Ron Stander could pull an upset, nobody could dispute his claim to the title. Not Ali, not Foreman, not anybody. It may very well have been the last time the Champ put the title on the line on national TV. You can't even cheer for an under dog to-day, because he can't win anything that means a damn thing.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 24 Apr 2007, 01:59

..yes, ..jaclem is still around.....and surprised you still remember my write up on seeing stander/candy slim live...and so close to the ring that i think i actually shook when merritt landed those bombs on stander. it was really brutal. not sure about the knockdowns, but three sounds right.

later...not sure how much later..check box rec....i saw stander get totally outboxed by a journey man..opponent..whatever....tom roughouse fischer....in cincinnati. fischer was usually an aggressive plodder....tough but not skillfull. yet, that night he turned boxer and completely outlclassed stander. when i talked to tom after the fight he said...."hey..i knew this guy was going to come right at me. that's the way he fights. hell..he went right after frazier." he added that boxing was the only way he thought he could fight him. which was true...but it was surprising how easy it was for him. by that time stander had slipped badly. fischer was a short guy too. damn..at both fights though, when stander walked down to the ring it was almost scary to see how massive he was. huge shoulders. big head. the last i recall reading about him was an article mostly about his wife....how saddened and angry she was that he wouldn't quit fighting. sorry to hear that he may be brain damaged now....but not surprised. one of those guys whose chin and gameness did him in....like a less talented jerry quarry.

one of the things i love about this forum is reading about guys here who were at a same card i was in the past. makes me feel even closer to you somehow. box buzz was at some aaron pryor fights that i attended...as i learned here a year of so ago.

hey..while i' m here....i've written about it before, but seeing larry holmes in that prelim that night got me into following his career from that time on. yeah...he got knocked down..but he got up..boxed his way till his head cleared and kayoed isaacs in the next round....and he just looked so damn smooth and cool doing it. with each ensuing fight i became more convinced he was going to be champion some day.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 25 Apr 2007, 09:16

Jaclem wrote:...and so close to the ring that i think i actually shook when merritt landed those bombs on stander..

Awesome jaclem, ive sent you a PM.

These breakdowns of the fight make Candy Slim sound like a Tarantino invention. Oh to see this guy in action...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 25 Apr 2007, 09:52

I hate it that Jaclem can remember details of the fights of this era much better than I can.....I tended to be influenced by the alcohol and distracted by the remarkably beautiful women who would show up at many of these events. (Much to the annoyance of my then wife Kathy who found it in her heart to put up with me somehow) Fights back then seemed to have a party atmosphere to them....much more than any other sporting event I have ever attended.

To attempt to describe some of the action that took place would defy both my mastery of the english language and my fading memory.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 25 Apr 2007, 18:08

Standers "lets get it on" style was always entertaining.
He took a trimming from Roy 'Pretty Boy" Shaw in a unliscensed fight in the mid seventies.
anyone have any more info on this?
http://www.royprettyboyshaw.com

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 25 Apr 2007, 23:08

Ron Stander at his best was a gutsy, fair punching fringe contender.

It never ceases to amaze me what a cult following Candy Slim, Jeff Sims and Roy Williams seem to have. I saw all three and knew Merritt and Sims and I don't see why the cult workship.

Williams I saw on TV and sparring sessions and sorry, but he seemed like 100 other pretty good heavyweight journeymen -like say, Rufus Brazell- Merritt was a good puncher but he was not consistent and Sims -with six bullet holes in his body had a terrific hook but was on the slow side, easy to hit and could be outboxed.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 26 Apr 2007, 04:54

I dont know about Sims, but as far as Candy Slim and Tiger Williams, an element of their mystique is the write ups they got nearly 10 years ago in the Larry Holmes book, they seem larger than life characters, whacky super villains too cartoonishly crazy to surely be real people.... Candy Slim, bouncing a guy with a cement head like Stander off the canvas in 3 bloody rds.. permanently p#ssed off at Don King.. heading off to Cleveland with a shotgun in the middle of the night to blow away Kings prize angus... Tiger Williams permanently surly and sullen, never speaks, scares Earnie Shavers to this day... takes Ali to war in Zaire over a grand, spars 20 hellish rds with him constantly yelling "mother f#cker gimmie my money"... eventually a brusied Ali demanding his people "pay him his money and get him the hell out of here!!" Guys like Holmes and Shavers who felt their power up close hold them in high reverence, which is good enough for me!

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 26 Apr 2007, 07:15

overhand_right wrote:I dont know about Sims

Frank Bruno´s book Eye of the Tiger has some pretty wild stories about Sims.

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 26 Apr 2007, 10:19

overhand_right wrote:I dont know about Sims, but as far as Candy Slim and Tiger Williams, an element of their mystique is the write ups they got nearly 10 years ago in the Larry Holmes book, they seem larger than life characters, whacky super villains too cartoonishly crazy to surely be real people.... Candy Slim, bouncing a guy with a cement head like Stander off the canvas in 3 bloody rds.. permanently p#ssed off at Don King.. heading off to Cleveland with a shotgun in the middle of the night to blow away Kings prize angus... Tiger Williams permanently surly and sullen, never speaks, scares Earnie Shavers to this day... takes Ali to war in Zaire over a grand, spars 20 hellish rds with him constantly yelling "mother f#cker gimmie my money"... eventually a brusied Ali demanding his people "pay him his money and get him the hell out of here!!" Guys like Holmes and Shavers who felt their power up close hold them in high reverence, which is good enough for me!

YES ! YES ! ALL THAT BUT RICHARD DUNNE BEAT HIM!!!!

.
Remember Ron Stander fighting Fraizer on tv when I was a little kid ,seemed a real tough guy but limited,still as said here anyone who could take shots from Shavers is T-O-U-G-H!

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 27 Apr 2007, 06:49

icejack wrote: YES ! YES ! ALL THAT BUT RICHARD DUNNE BEAT HIM!!!! .

The most insane result on any boxing record, EVER!

I guarantee you there will be extenuating circumstances to that loss.

(not a guarantee)

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 27 Apr 2007, 06:50

wouter wrote:
overhand_right wrote:I dont know about Sims
Frank Bruno´s book Eye of the Tiger has some pretty wild stories about Sims.

Care to share them, as that book is long deleted...

His most recent book, fightingback, touched on Sims and his power, but didn't go too indepth. Sounds like Bruno really liked him though.

Ive heard on this board he could be a bit weird apparently.

I would love to see Sims knockout of Jumbo Cummings, i heard hereally laid him out!!

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 27 Apr 2007, 10:29

overhand_right wrote:
icejack wrote: YES ! YES ! ALL THAT BUT RICHARD DUNNE BEAT HIM!!!! .
The most insane result on any boxing record, EVER!

I guarantee you there will be extenuating circumstances to that loss.

(not a guarantee)

Ali was shaking Dunne with jabs!

,I have read Shavers was scared to walk the streets of Philidelphia plus others said similar but somehow Dunne was not intimidated and won ,its so bizzare.Dunne to be fair was an ex paratrooper and had a ton of guts ,but Ali toyed with him and Joe Bugner blitzed him in a round (a fight i remember well) ,Williams couldnt get him out of there,perhaps he is remembered as better than he really was.Frankie Lucas who Sibson beat was a pretty intimidating guy but After the first couple of rounds Sibbo took him apart,perhaps Williams was the same Some fighters use fear to a huge degree when it dont work they fold,having said all that ,when you look at Williams record he seems a solid type of fighter. MAD!

icejack · Post by **icejack** » 27 Apr 2007, 10:32

overhand_right wrote:
wouter wrote:
overhand_right wrote:I dont know about Sims
Frank Bruno´s book Eye of the Tiger has some pretty wild stories about Sims.

Care to share them, as that book is long deleted...

His most recent book, fightingback, touched on Sims and his power, but didn't go too indepth. Sounds like Bruno really liked him though.

Ive heard on this board he could be a bit weird apparently.

I would love to see Sims knockout of Jumbo Cummings, i heard hereally laid him out!!

HAVE A DISTANT MEMORY OF JEFF SI MS FIGHTING EARNIE SHAVERS ,DID ONE OF EM HURT THEIR LEG AND the other chased the damaged one for a few rounds before ko'g em?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 29 Apr 2007, 23:48

..something i just recalled from that stander/merritt fight....stander claimed to have never been knocked off his feet...and no one disputed this. when merrit scored his first knockdown over him, the ring was slick and wet and though merritt did smite him with a mighty blow, stander was kind of slipping on the canvas at the same time. he was furious when the referee started counting and pointed to the canvas to justify his disagreement. and....it was one of those knockdowns that was ambiguous and his argument had some ...well....i was going to say merit..but that might confuse things. anyway, i could see his point. there was no disputing the other knockdowns though. thunderous blows bouncing his massive body ...i mean, he really got slammed. however....i cannot remember if he was acatually counted out by the referee or if the third man stopped it to keep him from being killed.

do my other witnesses have a clearer recollection?

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 30 Apr 2007, 07:31

icejack wrote: HAVE A DISTANT MEMORY OF JEFF SI MS FIGHTING EARNIE SHAVERS ,DID ONE OF EM HURT THEIR LEG AND the other chased the damaged one for a few rounds before ko'g em?

No.

They fought in 81 in the Bahamas. Sims decked Shavers in the 1st with a brutal right hand, only for the ref to handily issue Shavers a 20 count to give him enough time to recover.

Sims went on to punch himself out and Shavers took him to the cleaners in the 5th with a barrage of punches.