Kessler offers Calzaghe 5m$

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 19 Apr 2007, 17:39

Warren made an offer though, by logic he hasn't ducked Palle and Kessler.

Palle just made a counter offer Instead.

I don't mean the past bullshit, his last big fight was Lacy and that was only just over a year ago.

I mean you can't expect huge fight after huge fight, fighters need an average one In between otherwise they're shot to shit too soon.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Apr 2007, 17:45

Max Molyneux wrote:Warren made an offer though, by logic he hasn't ducked Palle and Kessler.

You don't get it. Warren made an "offer", not an offer.

I don't mean the past bullshit, his last big fight was Lacy and that was only just over a year ago.

Big in hype, modest in quality.

This time the quality part is different.

I mean you can't expect huge fight after huge fight, fighters need an average one In between otherwise they're shot to shit too soon.

I expect a big fight from Calzaghe. As I have for the past 10 years.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 19 Apr 2007, 17:53

You don't get it. Warren made an "offer", not an offer.

What Is their to get? He sent a fax to Palle and Palle admitted he did by that logic Warren Is not ducking shit. Tell me what I don't get.

Lacy was outclassed but it was still a big fight and needed for Joe he was top 10 unlike some of Joe's opp and was top 3 at the time.

I expect a big fight from Calzaghe. As I have for the past 10 years.

You got one last year and you might this year.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 19 Apr 2007, 20:09

Max Molyneux wrote:
nickd wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote: What If Kessler goes on to fight terrible fighters too? He's had a good start like Calzaghe did when he first became champ but then Joe had some terrible fighters on his list.
Oh come on the early years of Kessler's reign are far superior to Calzaghe's, barely comparable. In fact he unified within 2 years of becoming champion.
Eubank Is better than any of the names on Kessler's record, Lucas was shot, Beyer Is on the level of some of Joe's victim and Mundine Is the best but he was beaten by Siaca who Kessler made quit.

They're not that far superior.

Shot Joe had a good start too, lets wait and see.

The same Eubank that had only fought twice in the 2 years before there fight,
Comparing Kesslers unification of 2 belts and beating most of the top contenders at this weight in the last 2 years is better than anything Calzaghe has done in the entire 10 years as champ.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 19 Apr 2007, 20:12

Max Molyneux wrote:
pundit wrote:
boxingchat wrote: Also, on FWTV Warren clearly states that he offered him $3m plus certain territorial TV rights.
It was EITHER $3m gross OR TV rights in Denmark and Germany (worth about US 500,000).

As Palle rightly says, a travsesty of an offer. A sorry excuse for not wanting to make the fight. In a nutshell: vintage FWarren.
I'd like to know how 3 million Is a travesty of an offer?

5 million Is bigger obviously but 3 millions a good pay too.

I seriously think some posters here just like to hate on Warren on purpose, some were different before Palle made this offer acting like a spoilt child. Least he upped his offer but he doesn't sound very professional In that letter.

Sure Manfredo was brought over purely to make money but Andrade Is hardly more proven. And then to bring In a crap Jackie Mason joke makes me think he's a bit retarded.

He wants just as one sided terms as he says Warren might want by the sound of that letter.

Max you are so far biased towards Warren im sure your on his payroll.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 19 Apr 2007, 20:15

Eubank was a better fighter than anyone on Kessler's record and Joe has fought more top 10 fighters.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 19 Apr 2007, 20:20

ben k wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
pundit wrote: It was EITHER $3m gross OR TV rights in Denmark and Germany (worth about US 500,000).

As Palle rightly says, a travsesty of an offer. A sorry excuse for not wanting to make the fight. In a nutshell: vintage FWarren.
I'd like to know how 3 million Is a travesty of an offer?

5 million Is bigger obviously but 3 millions a good pay too.

TI seriously think some posters here just like to hate on Warren on purpose, some were different before Palle made this offer acting like a spoilt child. Least he upped his offer but he doesn't sound very professional In that letter.

Sure Manfredo was brought over purely to make money but Andrade Is hardly more proven. And then to bring In a crap Jackie Mason joke makes me think he's a bit retarded.

He wants just as one sided terms as he says Warren might want by the sound of that letter.
Max you are so far biased towards Warren im sure your on his payroll.

No, Palle admitted In his open letter through the media that Warren faxed Palle himself an offer.

Oh yeah, a 21 year old lad from Liverpool Is on Warren's payroll just because he disagrees with the majority and stands by his own opinions.

You got me sherlock.

This sad excuse comes up every time someone defends a promoter or boxer the majority aren't liking or disagree with and the odd person agrees with.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Apr 2007, 20:33

Max Molyneux wrote:Eubank was a better fighter than anyone on Kessler's record and Joe has fought more top 10 fighters.

Thats true, although maybe a little debatable about whether a dired up Eubank who was preparing for a title fight at Light Heavy the week before was a dangerous as a Mundine who had many weeks to prepare.

Yes, Kessler needs the fight as much if not more than Joe.... and what you say regarding Joe is correct. However, Kessler is only in his 3 year as a champion and has faced 6 top tenners from 6 (he does need to be more active himself).

Joe has had a 10 year reign and has fought.... actually I have just checked and I only see 4 certain top tenners.

Eubank shouldn't have been at the time.
Sobot - No
Gimenez - No
Reid - Yes definate (although the manner of the Malinga defeat was terrible).
Thornberry - No
Starie - Maybe, but no he'd just lost to Francis.
Sheika - Debatable but a definate no for me.
Woodhall - Yes.
Veit 1 - No
McIntyre - No
Brewer - Debatable - lost to Echols.
Jimenez - No
Pudwill - No
Mitchell - Yes
Mger - No
Salem - No
Veit II - Debatable.
Ashira - No
Lacy - Yes
Bika - No
Manfredo Jnr - Debatable borderline.

So actaully in a 3rd of the time - Kessler has already chalked up arguably more top ten wins.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 19 Apr 2007, 20:44

stujones wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Eubank was a better fighter than anyone on Kessler's record and Joe has fought more top 10 fighters.
Thats true, although maybe a little debatable about whether a dired up Eubank who was preparing for a title fight at Light Heavy the week before was a dangerous as a Mundine who had many weeks to prepare.

Yes, Kessler needs the fight as much if not more than Joe.... and what you say regarding Joe is correct. However, Kessler is only in his 3 year as a champion and has faced 6 top tenners from 6 (he does need to be more active himself).

Joe has had a 10 year reign and has fought.... actually I have just checked and I only see 4 certain top tenners.

Eubank shouldn't have been at the time.
Sobot - No
Gimenez - No
Reid - Yes definate (although the manner of the Malinga defeat was terrible).
Thornberry - No
Starie - Maybe, but no he'd just lost to Francis.
Sheika - Debatable but a definate no for me.
Woodhall - Yes.
Veit 1 - No
McIntyre - No
Brewer - Debatable - lost to Echols.
Jimenez - No
Pudwill - No
Mitchell - Yes
Mger - No
Salem - No
Veit II - Debatable.
Ashira - No
Lacy - Yes
Bika - No
Manfredo Jnr - Debatable borderline.

So actaully in a 3rd of the time - Kessler has already chalked up arguably more top ten wins.

In a short amount of time Mikkel has chalked up more top ten wins but doesn't have more top 10 wins.

Brewer won a title so wouldn't that make him top 10? I agree with your list though.

I know I'm a Calzaghe fan and will get stick for this but Manfredo shows top 10 potential just that he Isn't yet, he's top 15 probably though for his Pemberton win.

Sheika might of been borderline top 10 at the time but thats debatable, he was more a former top 15. He does hold a win over Glen Johnson.

Lucas was top 10 but by the time he fought Kessler he wasn't, he was deffo shot In that fight.

Andrade hasn't proven enough to be top 10, maybe top 15 but his only decent win was Oits Grant.

Siaca became top 10 though at the time he beat Mundine.

Mundine's a solid win and so was Beyer because of the belt.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Apr 2007, 21:09

Oh, what I meant was at the time of the fight. Brewer WAS definately a top ten fighter - but with the Echols defeat its a bit more open to debate. On a similar note, Veit clearly wasn't a top ten fighter before the first fight - but for the second he beat Brewer which puts him on the borders.

For me, Lucas was still a clear top ten.... He has controvesially lost to Beyer and then got a bit of a pasting vs Green admittedly. But at the time, Green was pretty much in a similar position that Bute is in now. Regarded as a top 3/4 in the devision clearly better than some of the champions and others in the top ten. I think if Froch lost to Bute he wouldn't lose a top ten place. He then came back and apparently looked good in two decent warm up bouts before the Kessler fight.

I would say Andrade was a definate top tenner aswell at the time of the Kessler fight... He outclassed Otis Grant and was undefeated. Although, I do conceed - like while you can make a claim that Brewer/Sheika/Manfredo/etc were not top ten - that is the case for Andrade. Although, I do think Andrade should have been (and still be) ranked above Manfredo.

I agree that Manfredo is top 15 (still) and Sheika has been in the top 15 themselves, but probably never top ten.

It is a bit rediculous that in a championship reign that is 3 times longer we are only looking at 1-2 more top tenners maximum, and depending on the individual it might even be less.

fist · Post by **fist** » 19 Apr 2007, 21:19

stujones wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Eubank was a better fighter than anyone on Kessler's record and Joe has fought more top 10 fighters.
Thats true, although maybe a little debatable about whether a dired up Eubank who was preparing for a title fight at Light Heavy the week before was a dangerous as a Mundine who had many weeks to prepare.

Yes, Kessler needs the fight as much if not more than Joe.... and what you say regarding Joe is correct. However, Kessler is only in his 3 year as a champion and has faced 6 top tenners from 6 (he does need to be more active himself).

Joe has had a 10 year reign and has fought.... actually I have just checked and I only see 4 certain top tenners.

Eubank shouldn't have been at the time.
Sobot - No
Gimenez - No
Reid - Yes definate (although the manner of the Malinga defeat was terrible).
Thornberry - No
Starie - Maybe, but no he'd just lost to Francis.
Sheika - Debatable but a definate no for me.
Woodhall - Yes.
Veit 1 - No
McIntyre - No
Brewer - Debatable - lost to Echols.
Jimenez - No
Pudwill - No
Mitchell - Yes
Mger - No
Salem - No
Veit II - Debatable.
Ashira - No
Lacy - Yes
Bika - No
Manfredo Jnr - Debatable borderline.

So actaully in a 3rd of the time - Kessler has already chalked up arguably more top ten wins.

Rubbish, Bika was a quality fighter, a very hard, strong and difficult fighter. Your just spouting rubbish now.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Apr 2007, 21:30

He wasn't a top ten fighter though.

Plenty of decent fighters haven't proven themselves a top ten fighter and with no meaningful win - Bika is one of these.

fist · Post by **fist** » 19 Apr 2007, 21:33

stujones wrote:He wasn't a top ten fighter though.

Plenty of decent fighters haven't proven themselves a top ten fighter and with no meaningful win - Bika is one of these.

Absoule rubbish, look at the fighter, look at his strength look at his previous fights. It was a perfectly reasonable fight for Joe to take, it was a hard fight. Bika is a very decent fighter, very strong and tough to beat. And Joe dominated him.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Apr 2007, 21:42

fist wrote:
stujones wrote:He wasn't a top ten fighter though.

Plenty of decent fighters haven't proven themselves a top ten fighter and with no meaningful win - Bika is one of these.
Absoule rubbish, look at the fighter, look at his strength look at his previous fights. It was a perfectly reasonable fight for Joe to take, it was a hard fight. Bika is a very decent fighter, very strong and tough to beat. And Joe dominated him.

When did I disagree with you, okay I do with your last line. Joe won clear - dominated is open to interpretation.

I'm not denying that Bika came out of the fight with an enhanced reputation as a dangerous fighter.

But, the question that Max posed was is Bika a top ten fighter? and he's not done enough to ranked in the top ten.

Calzaghe, Kessler, Mundine, Lacy, Beyer, Bute, Berrio, Froch, Inkin, Tsypko- There's ten with better wins than Bika. As strong and dangerous as he is hasn't won when he's stepped up to world class in three attempts. Thats not rubbish... its the truth.

I hope your man does well against Bute.... looks set for the summer.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Apr 2007, 22:58

Beyer, Mundine, Andrade were top 10 fighters for sure (Beyer and Mundine top 5). Siaca was arguably too. Lucas is hard to assess, he was top 3 at some point but he came out of retirement to face Kessler.

One more top 10 win and Kessler's 2 year career tops Calzaghe's 10 year record.

lankester · Post by **lankester** » 20 Apr 2007, 00:16

I'm a big lucas's fan .. however when he faced kessler he was not top3 or top10. He came back from retirement because he wanted to face beyer. However ... this didnt happen and the only world title fight available was vs kessler. And never ... never in his career lucas was in the same league than kessler.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 20 Apr 2007, 03:00

So does Frank want options on Kessler or has he put aside this policy? The fight won't get made, Boxingchat's responses are typical of this mentality. Stick to bad mouthing people in the news of the world, the whole organisation is a joke.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 20 Apr 2007, 03:50

jangeorg · Post by **jangeorg** » 20 Apr 2007, 03:57

jimb0d wrote:Joe should take the fight. I mean, if he beats Kessler in Cardiff its good for his legacy - beat him in Denmark and its the 'wont travel' monkey off his back as well.

Why??, Kessler have to KO calzaghe to get the win in Wales,even if he beat calzaghe like he did Andrade he would still losse

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Apr 2007, 04:41

Since when has Joe had a contriversial decision? He's never needed dodgey judges.

He Is not Ottke.

PompeyScot · Post by **PompeyScot** » 20 Apr 2007, 04:57

Max Molyneux wrote:Since when has Joe had a contriversial decision? He's never needed dodgey judges.

He Is not Ottke.

I know it was a while ago, but Robin Reid might disagree?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Apr 2007, 05:03

Most fighters would disagree In a close fight.

PompeyScot · Post by **PompeyScot** » 20 Apr 2007, 05:56

Max Molyneux wrote:Most fighters would disagree In a close fight.

It was a controversial decision though, which is what you stated (your answer was a 'moving of the goalposts' worthy of Frank himself, lol).

shot · Post by **shot** » 20 Apr 2007, 06:10

Max Molyneux wrote:Hold on someone posted the link on Joe's forum so he might see It there too.

So let's wait until they finished. What do you think should happen then?
Finished reading the offer you mean? Call the bluff or make a better offer. Warren has more funds than Palle, Warren doesn't struggle with TV contracts and has had more/former world class fighters other than Kessler and Bredhl.

Yes Warren may have had more world class fighters over the years and better TV contracs but this is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Palle made an offer. All Warren has to do is call the bluff (if it is so) and Palle will look like a fool if he cannot fullfil the offer. Simple as that.

And why do you instist the offer be made in pounds? Do you really think Joe/Warren are so daft that they cannot convert dollars into pounds?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Apr 2007, 07:24

Yes all Warren has to do Is call the bluff but In an Instant, people like Pundit assume Warren's the fool already because there Impatient and over emotional.

Sure they'll obviously know the offer In pounds but why does Palle bother to offer It in Dollars? Joe's not American. Most boxing fans and promotors seem to be speaking In American English.