KEVIN HOWARD BEAT THE **** OUT OF SUGAR RAY LEONARD

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 30 Jun 2003, 20:30

Was that the fight where Leonard got knocked down by a clothesline?

And where he looked like he was hit by a truck in the post fight interview?

Then magically came back to "beat" Hagler 3 years later?

Yup, that's the one.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 30 Jun 2003, 20:34

A question for you Terap? Do you hate Leonard as much as you hate Ali?

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 30 Jun 2003, 22:29

It's my signature, sorry dude. I can stop attaching my signature, if it makes you happy. but only if you tell me the truth... you hate Leonard don't you? He's a little bitch isn't he? Don't you wanna strangle him with piano wire?

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 01 Jul 2003, 04:22

I saw that fight and became an immediate Kevin Howard fan. Sadly it was a short term relationship however.

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 10 Jul 2003, 00:40

Leonard screwed over alot of guys like that, it's pretty sad that he was allowed to get away with it so much.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 24 Jul 2003, 10:52

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 27 Jul 2003, 00:52

On HBO's legendary fights The tale of Hagler-Leonard tonight they showed the clip of Leonard getting knocked on his ass by Howard. I had almost forgotten how "gracefully" Leonard fell.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 29 Sep 2003, 15:43

I like the knock downs in Hearns II better.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 02 Oct 2003, 08:43

Nothing beats the ones by Terry Norris.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 02 Oct 2003, 09:38

Good post Terap, but I did hear that Howard priced himself out of fights after the Leonard performance.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 02 Oct 2003, 11:35

terap wrote:Bennie---

Who is that in the picture?

The Boilermaker

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 02 Oct 2003, 11:51

It's a very interesting set of points you raise, Terap. I've long thought about that fight in 1984, given how well Howard fought and how poor he made Leonard look. You could see Ray reacting with astonishment to Kevin's punches in the fight, as if to say: "I'd forgotten how much these punches hurt!" He hadn't fought since early 1982 when he easily stopped Bruce Finch in three rounds and then 'retired' from the sport with eye trouble.
The legacy - for me - of the Leonard-Howard fight is how it made Leonard's win over Hagler all the more astonishing in 1987. The experts cited how badly Ray had fought against the unheralded Howard in his previous comeback, so what chance did he have against Marvelous Marvin! We all know how it turned out of course, and it makes Howard look very good indeed. The Philly warrior must be one of the unluckiest fighters in history. The stoppage in the Leonard fight was dodgy to say the least, and when he did get another fight, he was chucked in with Simon "Mantequilla" Brown, a fantastic fighter in his own right.
What's Kevin doing now?

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 03 Oct 2003, 06:29

LOL, i love jimmy young but i know he was assisted by muhammad ali being a lazy man and turning up like a baloon that night.

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 03 Oct 2003, 10:45

ummm, actually i do love jimmy young. i have a large autograph action shot of him whipping ali. i have a photcopy of his original ali fight contract again signed by him. i even have a collection of photos of him as he is today, including one of him with georeg foreman, sent to me by one of his buddies. i have tapes of his fights with ali, foreman, lyle, cooney, dokes, page, wendell bailey, norton, ocasio, all of which i bought because i enjoy watching him fight.

i also like ali. i dont love him, dont worship him, havent had my mind clouded by 'media shills', i just recognise talent when i see it.

that means i like both of them and can judge fairly without being clouded by a ridiculous amount of hatred and juvenile paranoia like yourself.

i dont disagree with any of your points on the ali fight. jimmy young won just about every round.

but you are ignoring the fact that ali showed up at his career highest weight in a frame of mind that he was fighting a routine defence against a bum, which showed in what transpired.

i feel in my unbiased opinion (something which you are incapable of contributing), that a rematch would have looked different.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 03 Oct 2003, 11:56

terap wrote:Neil, Your slimy comments REEK of the media's tired and unending sell of their product---Ali.

Jimmy Young was ASSISTED by the fact he knew how to box and Ali didn't.

Young hit Ali with his left jab at will---splat, splat, splat---all night long.

Ali threw more left jabs--and right hands against Jimmy Young than he did in any fight in his entrire career.
He NEVER landed a single clean punch in the entire fight.

Young knew how to box---which is a game of geometry.

Young knew that Ali was a very limited fighter defensively.
Ali could only move STRAIGHT BACKWARDS.

So Young did what a knowledgeable fighter does with someone who moves STRAIGHT BACKWARDS.

He stepped forward (Young had a huge single step forward) and threw a straight punch---either a straight left jab---or a straight right hand.

And he landed at will.

It was embarrassing.

Ali had a broken eardrum after the fight.

He was exposed as a fighter (even after all the fights he had) who had NO IDEA how to fight a counterpuncher.

Young also took advantage of Ali's flaw of not protecting his own stomach.
He tore out Ali's midsection with (always upward) body shots inside.
The look on Ali's face and the fact he did nothing for the next number of seconds after Young gave him each of these body beatings told how effective this was for Young.

Ali was rocked by right hands a number of times during the fight.
The fact he was definitely hurt was shown by his stopping doing anything of his own, moving away and covering up while not throwing a single punch of his own for a time after he got clobbered by Young right hands.

Every trainer and former champion I talked to laughed and laughed about the fact that Young led Ali around by the nose by turning (Jersey Joe Walcott style) and walking to the furthest distant point in the ring after many of the clinches.

Ali, as if he had a ring through his nose and a cord attached to it by Young, would then come all the way across the ring to where Young had set himself up in a corner. Ali would miss several punches, then get clobbered by accurate counter punches by Young. Happened repeatedly in the fight.

Your comments are STRAIGHT out of the shill-for-Ali talking points.

You don't "love" Jimmy Young, Neil.

You hate his guts because he exposed Ali and his fraudulent PR program for ALL TO SEE.

Don't offer your stale, Ali-selling comments to me.

You forget the 'moves' that cost Young the fight in my opinion: namely putting his head through the ropes to avoid getting hit.

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 03 Oct 2003, 14:22

okay calm down terap here you are getting all agitated and excited again.

did it occur to you before you started your rant that those fights i have of jimmy young are the only ones AVAILIABLE? try track some down some others terap. in fact, post me a link to a website which has some 'real' jimmy young fights which i dont already own. you wont find any.

should i stop myself pursuing available fights of a fighter i lik merely because the fighter was no longer in his prime? of course not.

also, you again show a lack of knowledge, either that or a selective memory. in 77, when norton was fighting young, ali made no secret that he wanted young to win. he was EAGER to give young a rematch, but not so eager to fight norton again.

try harder.

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 03 Oct 2003, 18:37

I don't really know if there was enough time for a rematch anyway. Alot of people bitched that Ali should face Shavers, Dunn, and then Norton for a third fight if wanted to be called champion; which he did from mid 76' to mid 77'. Then a month later, Young lost to Norton, starting on that downhill spiral you mentioned. I can understand why you would be upset about the fight, but I don't really know if I can agree with the rematch theory.

The only real case, would be for Jones.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 04 Oct 2003, 00:21

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 04 Oct 2003, 06:38

terap wrote:"when norton was fighting young, ali made no secret that he wanted young to win. he was EAGER to give young a rematch,"

SO NOW Ali was eager to give Young a rematch.
Is that right, halfwit?

Then WHY DIDN'T HE ?????? after Young beat Lyle and Foreman just after beating Ali?

Jabbering (which people like you swallow whole) is worth nothing.

Actions are.

Ali never gave Young a rematch.

He never gave Doug Jones a rematch.

BECAUSE HE LOST TO LEON SPINKS YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Riddick Bowie · Post by **Riddick Bowie** » 04 Oct 2003, 09:38

teraps depressing. and mildy delusional. how can a casual fan of someone be some kind of shill.

he's giving me a head ache im going.

gensu3k1 · Post by **gensu3k1** » 05 Oct 2003, 19:40

I had Ali beating Young, and I'm pretty confident about my scoring. I think a lot of people haven't actually sat down and watched the fight carefully and are instead going on their recollections of the fight (I actually think Terap hasn't watched Ali's controversial decisions and scored them carefully in decades).

Here's my post from another thread on the fight. No one has actually responded by talking about the specifics of the fight. And Terap, your claim that Ali didn't land a clean punch in the entire fight is just ludicrous.

-----

For whatever reason, I enjoy watching the later fights of Ali, especially those which ended in controversial decisions.

I've watched the Shavers fight several times, and I either score it a draw or by a point for Ali. Shavers just took too many rounds off.

I've watched the third Ali-Norton fight twice and scored it a draw both times. I scored the 13th and 15th even, and a case can be made for either man in those rounds.

As for the Young fight, I scored this for Ali both times that I watched it. A lot of people I respect say that this was the decision that Ali CLEARLY didn't deserve. However, I feel that Ali deserved the victory. Since I'm in a very small minority, I did a round by round synopsis of the fight. If you disagree with my scoring, could you point to specific rounds? In any case, the argument that Young "dominated" Ali does not paint an accurate picture of the fight in my opinion.

(This fight was scored on a 5 point system. I assume that knockdowns and standing eight-counts are counted in this system in the same way as in the 10 point system)

Round 1: Clear round for young. Ali almost completely inactive. 5-4 Young.

Round 2. Ali once again very inactive. Young mostly lands pawing jabs, but controls the ring. 10-8 Young.

Round 3: A very difficult round to score. Young is content to land jabs on Ali's gloves. Young's body shots in this round are mostly low and thus are not scoring punches. Difficult to determine ring generalship with so few clean punches landed. Ali lands the only significant punches of the round to close it. A case could be made for an even round or for Young. Perhaps a key round. 14-13 Young.

Round 4: Young easily takes the round on effective body punching. 19-17 Young.

Round 5: Ali able to impose his strength on young and catch him with relatively hard head shots. Round 3 and 5 are the most debatable of the rounds I scored for Ali. 23-22 Young.

Round 6: The first obvious round for Ali. Young's output slows and Ali is able to time his jab for counters. Late in the round, Young throws some of the weakest punches in heavyweight history against Ali's Elbows, grabs the ropes to try to trap Ali within his arms and then melts to the canvas as Ali tries to shove him off. 27-27.

Round 7: Clear round for Ali. Ali is able to initiate exchange and have success. For the first time, Young sticks his head through the ropes and allows Ali to hit him in the body, a "tactic" that will cost him the fight. 32-31 Ali.

Round 8: Young is more aggressive and easily takes the round. 36-36.

Round 9: Midway through the round, Ali attempts to dance, but Young counters over his jab and is very effective. 41-40 Young.

Round 10: Ali again dances and is much more effective. Young lands a crisp right hand midway through, but Ali controls the action and outjabs Young in the center of the ring. 45-45.

Round 11: Clear round for Young. 50-49.

Round 12: A comfortable round for Young until the last 45 seconds, when Ali stages a rally. Young doesn't seem to be hurt, but is not firing back. Just when the round seems to have swung in Ali's favor, Young either falls through the ropes or voluntarily sticks his head through them. In either case, the referee gives him a standing eight count, and Ali gets a 2 point round on my card. 54-53 Ali.

Round 13: Young again falls through the ropes. Why not take a point? Almost immediately, he does it again, obviously on purpose, allowing Ali to hit him to the body as he leans out of the ring with his back turned, like a man leaning out his window to look at the street below. Ali brawls somewhat effectively as Young, for perhaps the first time, looks like the more tired fighter. Ali lands a good right hand at the close of the round to seal it. 59-57 Ali.

Round 14: Effective counterpunching by Young easily gives him the round. 63-62 Ali.

Round 15: Ali begins the round by bum rushing Young and landing two or three power shots. Young retreats and sticks his head through the ropes in a display of cowardice. The ref is nice and doesn't take a point. Young is effective in the middle of the round, but Ali carries the last third with a mixture of brawling and boxing.

My final score: 68-66 for Muhammad Ali.

I think that Ali had nothing left after Manila, and that Shavers, Norton and Young all should have beaten him. But Ali's toughness and their tactical mistakes were bigger reasons for Ali's maintenance of the title than poor judging.

gensu3k1 · Post by **gensu3k1** » 05 Oct 2003, 20:19

terap wrote:Half-witted gensu---

You have the wrong thread for your Ali shilling.

This is a thread about an unknown kid who beat the sh*t out of Sugar Ray Leonard

just like unknown Jimmy Young Young beat the sh*t out of Ali.

Your lack of competence to do with the subject doesn't fit here.

1. When was the last time you watched Ali-Young?

2. Do you honestly believe that Ali did not land a single clean punch in the entire fight?

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 05 Oct 2003, 20:19

If you didn't want comments on Ali in this thread, you shouldn't have started an Ali rant halfway down in the posts. I blame you and Neil for ruining this topic.