Gonzaga is very underrated(mostly because he hasn't got a chance at the big names until now), and I completely agree with the statement made by ebeneezer.ebeneezer wrote:Not really. Gonzaga is just a tough match for Randy if not more.Kilburn wrote: Some Couture fans may be breathing a sigh of relief.
Physically huge grapplers like Rico Rodriguez and Josh Barnett chased Randy out of the heavyweight division in the first place and Gonzaga is a top level jui jitsu world champ with excellent strikes.
MMA
-
Fist of Legend
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7712
- Joined: 31 Jul 2004, 15:42
-
mickeybeard
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 488
- Joined: 31 Jan 2004, 09:05
Do I detect a bit of anti-MMA bias there Stu?stujones wrote:3) Why can't they restrain themselves like boxers?
Off the top of my head, I can't think of a boxer who hasn't stopped hitting his man before the ref jumped in, even ones that clearly wanted the ref to stop the fight. I've seen boxers hit guys who are on their knees, or tangled in the ropes, of shellack guys that are clearly KO'd with uppercuts as they are on the way down. Watching those kind of things can make watching boxing, or any combat sport, pretty uncomfortable for someone who doesn't get off on watching people get hurt. But, as Ricky Hatton said, it's not a tickling contest. The wonderful contradictions of being a fight fan.
I really enjoy MMA, but if there's one thing I would call it on it's a seeming disregard for anyone that gets knocked out. I know the medical support will be excellent, but I've watched guys get heavily sparked and the UFC commentators are practically stepping over the guy's body to interview the winner. If that happened on Sky it would be taken very seriously, and the commentary team would let you know how the fallen fighter was recovering. To be fair though, I find that American boxing commentators can also be a bit callous.
No not anti MMA.... I've admitted in the past that I'm not a fan (personally find UFC boring and K1 a bit "jack of all trades") but my questions were geniune questions without meaning to sound offensive.mickeybeard wrote:Do I detect a bit of anti-MMA bias there Stu?stujones wrote:3) Why can't they restrain themselves like boxers?
Off the top of my head, I can't think of a boxer who hasn't stopped hitting his man before the ref jumped in, even ones that clearly wanted the ref to stop the fight. I've seen boxers hit guys who are on their knees, or tangled in the ropes, of shellack guys that are clearly KO'd with uppercuts as they are on the way down. Watching those kind of things can make watching boxing, or any combat sport, pretty uncomfortable for someone who doesn't get off on watching people get hurt. But, as Ricky Hatton said, it's not a tickling contest. The wonderful contradictions of being a fight fan.
I really enjoy MMA, but if there's one thing I would call it on it's a seeming disregard for anyone that gets knocked out. I know the medical support will be excellent, but I've watched guys get heavily sparked and the UFC commentators are practically stepping over the guy's body to interview the winner. If that happened on Sky it would be taken very seriously, and the commentary team would let you know how the fallen fighter was recovering. To be fair though, I find that American boxing commentators can also be a bit callous.
I am surprised at the reaction I had from KO Joe and now yourself to the questions. I do disagree with the majority of your first paragraph.... sure many boxers do "bend" the rules - but I do think its rare(ish) to see a fighter hit a guy when down even if the fight isn't waved off or the ref is slow to intervene. I think the reaction to the recent Marco Antonio Barrera incident highlights this. Naseem Hamed was a dirty little fighter who pummeled Steve Robinson but everytime Robinson was about to fall... Hamed stopped punching. You didn't exactly see Michael Sprott doing what that GIF showed to Audley Harrison.
Sure you get your idiots (as KO Joe said) but most of the time they get punished. Roy Jones lost his undefeated tag and his title for this... and Griffin had taken a knee wasn't exactly like this guy who was completely unable to defend himself (not that I'm defending RJJ).
No I don't like the end of that GIF, for me you see that often enough on a Saturday night and whilst the kick has an artistary about it - the aftermath doesn't. Perhaps its the actual enviroment but are the fighters able to hear the ref? Again a geniune question. If the ref is somewhat out of a position (as can happen in all combat sports) can't he say stop fighting. Alot of boxers do listen to these commands and don't need a ref doing his superman bit (indeed, generally hated among boxing fans).
So was the ref badly positioned in this gif? Does he like (like many boxing refs) like to be more of the star than the fighter.... by acting all superman esque. Call it anti MMA if you want, but I don't think there should be room for hitting a defensless guy when down in any walk of life, let alone sport.
Stu: its a completely different sport so you cannot compare the rules of boxing to the rules that apply in MMA.
The fact is an MMA fight doesnt necessarily stop when the fighter is knocked to the floor, many times he is in a fit position to continue and the opponent is allowed to jump on top and go for the KO.
The ref did a great job, he realised that Crocop was badly hurt from his view point and acted to stop the fight as soon as he could... Nothing wrong with that....
To me its similar to Corrales v Castillo 1 when Castillo was on the ropes, defenceless, Corrales natural reaction was to keep punching away, the ref made the decision that Castillo couldnt defend himself and stopped the fight.
Obviously because they are both standing up the ref can easily get between them, in the Crocop fight they were on the ground so the referee has to act differently.
The fact is an MMA fight doesnt necessarily stop when the fighter is knocked to the floor, many times he is in a fit position to continue and the opponent is allowed to jump on top and go for the KO.
The ref did a great job, he realised that Crocop was badly hurt from his view point and acted to stop the fight as soon as he could... Nothing wrong with that....
To me its similar to Corrales v Castillo 1 when Castillo was on the ropes, defenceless, Corrales natural reaction was to keep punching away, the ref made the decision that Castillo couldnt defend himself and stopped the fight.
Obviously because they are both standing up the ref can easily get between them, in the Crocop fight they were on the ground so the referee has to act differently.
-
TerribleTerry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5272
- Joined: 29 Aug 2003, 12:30
Stu,
It is drilled into MMA fighters to follow up quickly on a knockdown to gain an advantageous mount position or lock in a fight winning submission.
Unlike boxing the fight does not end when one combatant hits the deck, it simply moves into the transition. In the case of the Cro Cop fight there was no need – the kick had knocked him out – but this is not always the case.
Its as natural for an MMA fighter to pounce on a fallen foe as it is for a boxer to counter a sloppy jab with a right hand; its instinctive, not a conscious action.
The positioning and awareness of the ref is therefore paramount and generally speaking they are good at getting in between the two fighters when the fight should be stopped.
Gonzaga’s training to quickly take advantage of his opponent going to the deck, combined with the adrenaline involved in this fight, meant that he landed a couple of unnecessary follow up punches but it isn’t an indictment of the sportsmanship or otherwise in the sport – MMA fighters are as respectful of their opponents as boxers are.
Rewatch Ruddock v Dokes and you will see an unnecessary follow up to a KO but it happens in MMA to – just see the recent Trigg v Lawler ending. The two are almost identical.
EDIT: Sorry for re-iterating your points knockout - I wrote my response off line and didnt see yours til after I havd posted it.
It is drilled into MMA fighters to follow up quickly on a knockdown to gain an advantageous mount position or lock in a fight winning submission.
Unlike boxing the fight does not end when one combatant hits the deck, it simply moves into the transition. In the case of the Cro Cop fight there was no need – the kick had knocked him out – but this is not always the case.
Its as natural for an MMA fighter to pounce on a fallen foe as it is for a boxer to counter a sloppy jab with a right hand; its instinctive, not a conscious action.
The positioning and awareness of the ref is therefore paramount and generally speaking they are good at getting in between the two fighters when the fight should be stopped.
Gonzaga’s training to quickly take advantage of his opponent going to the deck, combined with the adrenaline involved in this fight, meant that he landed a couple of unnecessary follow up punches but it isn’t an indictment of the sportsmanship or otherwise in the sport – MMA fighters are as respectful of their opponents as boxers are.
Rewatch Ruddock v Dokes and you will see an unnecessary follow up to a KO but it happens in MMA to – just see the recent Trigg v Lawler ending. The two are almost identical.
EDIT: Sorry for re-iterating your points knockout - I wrote my response off line and didnt see yours til after I havd posted it.
