Well Done David Haye

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 01 May 2007, 06:05

Yes Bonin was made to order...would you like fries with that?

But you can't fault the way Haye dealt with him, no messing around and went straight for the kill. God knows the HW division needs a few exciting punchers in there.

When you think of LH or cruiser punchers moving up to take on the big boys, the two stars who spring to mind are Bob Foster and Mike Spinks - two of the hardest LH punchers ever seen, same slim build as Haye as well, and yet their punches just bounced off the quality heavyweights - though Spinks did manage to decimate the hapless Cooney.

So if two fighters as good as that found it hard going, no doubt the leagues lower Haye will eventualy find out the same.

But the HW division has NEVER seen worse days, so there's never been a better time.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 May 2007, 06:09

I'd say Haye is a naturally bigger man than Foster, no way could Haye make 175.

However, Foster was also facing stouter opposition than Bonin. He did manage to hurt Frazier, which is pretty good going, but Frazier then proceeded to tear him a new arsehole and bashed him up something rotten.

Would foster have been able to hurt Bonin? Not sure.

I have two points to make.

1) Haye did everything that was asked of him and more in destroying Bonin in short order.
2) Whilst he is a welcome addition to the terrible paucity of talent in the heavies right now, I'm not quite ready to annoint him as the future of the division. He certainly has A future at heavyweight, but we've yet to see hust how far he can go.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 01 May 2007, 06:13

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'd say Haye is a naturally bigger man than Foster, no way could Haye make 175.

However, Foster was also facing stouter opposition than Bonin. He did manage to hurt Frazier, which is pretty good going, but Frazier then proceeded to tear him a new arsehole and bashed him up something rotten.

Would foster have been able to hurt Bonin? Not sure.

Yes same height, 6.3", but I notice Foster was down to supermiddle after his heavy debut...!

Couldn't remember if he hurt Joe, but if he did, I think it's safe to assume he'd have Pole axed Bonin.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 01 May 2007, 06:21

I dont recall him hurting Frazier either, James might be on the heroin again, however luckily for us Haye wont be mixing it up witht he likes of Holmes and Frazier and Tyson et al.

The division is unbelievably weak, a series of flabby limited skilled half arsed yanks and some eastern europeans who are solid but probably wouldnt have been ranked in the top 10 in the 90s.

Even the top dog Wlad K is sooo vulnerable. The thought of a likeable slim 215 lb skilled puncher stepping up and using speed and talent to wipe out this sorry mess is enough to make me whip it out & start masturbating freely in the middle of the office.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 May 2007, 06:34

Sorry, my mistake, it was Ali that Foster wobbled, only momentarily, Ali kicked the shit out of him the very next round.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 01 May 2007, 06:42

Can you imagine what Foster would of done to Clinton Woods....?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 May 2007, 06:49

Would have loved to have seen how RJJ coped with someone like Foster, a big, strong, skilled and massive hitting light heavyweight.

Jones never really had to face another top drawer light heavy, certianly nobody of the calibre of Spinks, Foster, Moore or even Moorer.

It's a shame his light heavyweight reign was so light on decent challenges. His best win, in retrospect, was probably against Woods, who he utterly dominated, and who went on to be a decent enough champion in his own right, though certainly well short of any all-time lists.

How about Foster against Archie Moore? Now there would have been a fantastic fight. Moore was the bigger hitter and better all around fighter I'd say, but christ it would have been a tear-up.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 May 2007, 07:01

Terry D wrote:Good match-up.

I might lean towards Foster's straight shots to break the guard of Moore over the course of the fight.

Then again it could be the case that Moore is floored and roars back to give Foster hell before nicking a decision over fifteen.

I would go for Foster over Jones. Jones would move well but when he opened-up his combinations a calm fighter like Foster would punch straight through him.

Foster could bust him up and stop him after a good fight.

Archie had a bloody good beard on him, and endured a savage pummelling from the massive hitting Marciano before finally surrendering, and hit hard enough to drop him on his arse and have him on queer street too.

Foster's size and reach advantage and straight punching would have definetly have caused problems, but Archie was a crafty old sod. The only light heavyweight to ever dominate him was Ezzard Charles, and Charles was a fantastically gifted fighter with speed and power in spades, certainly quicker than Foster.

I would favour Moore to find a way to get past that long reach and bust Foster up over the distance.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 01 May 2007, 07:22

what an excellent thread this is turning out to be. for me foster beats roy
every time. straight jabs hard enough to bust jones's guard. he might even stop him.
archie though could have contrived a win over bob, just - that would have been an all time tear up!!

by the way, i'm not sure archie has peaked yet.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 01 May 2007, 07:24

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
overhand_right wrote:Danny Williams already has 'done a David Haye', or have you all forgot?

Remember Ratko Draskovic? Ugly hairy fella, had never been stopped. Lasted the full 8 with Audley pretty easily. Then Danny Williams comes in on only a few days notice and ices Draskovic in 1 rd, effortless 1 punch kayo.

Another fine example of Audleys skills.
Bad comparison, Danny Williams was a genuine big man, and an experienced heavyweight campaigner.

The fact that Haye, not even a hugely seasoned cruiserweight, who has had only one fight at top level (Thompson, which he lost), can move up and squash Bonin like a bug, would suggest that if nothing else, his power early in a heavyweight fight means he is in with a shout of stopping all but the most stout chins in the division.

James,

I think Alexander Gurov would have beaten Thompson at the respective times they fought Haye.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 01 May 2007, 07:25

hats off to dick richardson then for beating charles - albeit on a foul.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 01 May 2007, 07:27

charlie burley beat arch convincingly but couldnt cope with ezz. too big for him and too slick

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 May 2007, 07:31

harrygreb wrote:charlie burley beat arch convincingly but couldnt cope with ezz. too big for him and too slick

Burley wasn't a light heavy though, I seem to recall those fights were early in Moore's career.

Moore was an incredible physical specimen who seemed to peak in his mid to late 30's, but whose experience turned him into a sensational fighter well into his late 30's and 40's.

Moore could be outboxed by the slickest operators, but nobody below heavyweight was able to smash him up without getting smashed themselves.

Anyone seen the Charles fights with Moore, Moore always claimed he was robbed in those losses.

I've seen bits and pieces of Moore's career, anyone know how many of his fights are on tape?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 02 May 2007, 11:15

overhand_right wrote: The thought of a likeable slim 215 lb skilled puncher stepping up and using speed and talent to wipe out this sorry mess is enough to make me whip it out & start masturbating freely in the middle of the office.

Not sure what would be more shocking to your co-workers, to see you jacking off at your desk, or to know who you're thinking about as you do it.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 02 May 2007, 11:51

MightyWarrior wrote:
overhand_right wrote: The thought of a likeable slim 215 lb skilled puncher stepping up and using speed and talent to wipe out this sorry mess is enough to make me whip it out & start masturbating freely in the middle of the office.
Not sure what would be more shocking to your co-workers, to see you jacking off at your desk, or to know who you're thinking about as you do it.

best point of the thread

what about Haye vs Roy now at cruiser or heavy?

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 02 May 2007, 17:55

right, james. burley fought many light heavies but was never big enough to beat the really top guys at that weight re ezzard charles and jimmy bivins. right again about burley and the young moore. archie turned himself into a very special fighter into his late 30's. a very brilliant man.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 02 May 2007, 19:02

since Foster has been mentioned, was Bob ever that amazing? In ONE sense, no...He was an average heavyweight who made the move down and battered guys thanks to a huge size and power advantage. That of course made him a physical freak and an ATG light heavyweight, but also a guy who couldn't cut it as a heavy. (Foster was also soundly beaten by Ahumada, though it was ruled a draw...)

Obviously he was brilliant and leaning down, and jabbing/power punching to dominate some decent contenders and a rival title holder (Rondon).

I hear his fight v Frazier was exciting. Vs Ali, it's hard to tell if Foster was doing so well or if Ali was clowning. My memories of it are hazy admittedly.

I think he would have destroyed Jones Jr.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 02 May 2007, 19:04

As to Haye, he's a guy who looks so much better moving up. He just looked extremely healthy and classy/powerful at the bigger weight. Hope he does well.

1st time I watched Haye, I saw the comparisons with Foster. Especially the way Haye sort of squats down a bit in eagerness to land power shots. Similar stance.

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 02 May 2007, 19:13

Would Chazz Witherspoon be a good opponent for Haye, after Mormeck?

I don't know much about him, but he's obviously got the name in his favour.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 03 May 2007, 07:25

Final Fight wrote:since Foster has been mentioned, was Bob ever that amazing?

A frightening puncher that's for sure, his KO of Quarry was like a near death experience. A great fighter, but Moore might have been the greatest - top ten at least.

He'd have beaten Foster, and probably any LH in history. Marciano was lucky to get out of the first round with old Archie.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 May 2007, 07:29

It's a toss up between him and Ezzard, although Ezzard never actually held the title he beat just about every light heavyweight of his time.

John Henry Lewis deserves a mention too, amazing record at light heavyweight.

Has anyone here seen a video of his fight with Marciano? I'd love to see it, because Moore claimed in his book that Marciano was completely banjaxed and that without the standing 8 count, which should never have been administered in the first place, Marciano would never have made it out of the round.

Moore had frightening power, endurance, ring smarts, and an incredible will to win, his comeback against Durelle, must be the most unlikely comeback in boxing history.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y7gHDpVhdvY

good old youtube.

Load of old bollocks from Archie, it was just a flash knockdown! What's amazing about that fight is that Archie actually looks bigger than Marciano by quite some stretch, the power that Marciano generated for such a small man in incredible, and his skills are a little underrated, good inside fighter, and decent mobility in that fight, considering how crafty archie was.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 03 May 2007, 09:03

Grilling Machine wrote:Would Chazz Witherspoon be a good opponent for Haye, after Mormeck?

I don't know much about him, but he's obviously got the name in his favour.

How about Cedric Boswell? He'd be an ok opponent (is he still fighting?). The man is supposed to have some talent.

Re Moore-Marciano. Moore says the standing 8 count which wasn't in the rules was administered. Reckons it was edited out of all film footage in some kind of Rocky conspiracy.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 03 May 2007, 09:15

the sight of archie at the end of round 8 is very sad. his will wont let him quit yet i think his body has had it. question: what is in store for the next few minutes of my life? answer: another round with rocky marciano.
hhmmm.....ok, let me at him.
i loved archie moore. one of the 3 greatest figures in boxing history.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 May 2007, 09:29

Yep. Archie is one of my favourites too, possibly my favourite. Who are your other two, out of interest?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 May 2007, 09:41

Had there been a cruiserweight division, no doubt Bob could have picked up a second title at 190, he just didn't have the right build to move up to heavy, too lanky.