Thomas Hitman Hearns - Deterioration?

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 08 May 2007, 09:17

holyfield and gatti unnafected...what planet are you on?

jimmywils · Post by **jimmywils** » 08 May 2007, 09:22

Well,they are both still fighting arent they? Are they being fed by their families because they cant feed themselves?

I think you will find the answer is yes to both questions pal

I didnt mean literally uneffected. Im sure their licences would be revoked if they couldnt walk to the ring.

PompeyScot · Post by **PompeyScot** » 08 May 2007, 09:47

jimmywils wrote:Well,they are both still fighting arent they? Are they being fed by their families because they cant feed themselves?

I think you will find the answer is yes to both questions pal

I didnt mean literally uneffected. Im sure their licences would be revoked if they couldnt walk to the ring.

So, what's your definition of being uneffected? At the moment it seems to be anybody who can make it to stand can make it to a ring?

There are enough people who are expressing doubts about Holyfield's state, and you only have to listen to the guy to sense that something's not quite right and he's putting his health at risk in all likelihood. I'm sure that Holyfield is still unable to fight in some states because of this (somebody correct me if I'm wrong), which would sort of answer your second point.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 08 May 2007, 10:11

Thing is boxing is a matter of choice, as long as a boxer passes all the medical examinations then he should be allowed to box. I'm not saying i'm keen on people like Holyfield etc boxing , but its their choice.

Other wise boxing will not be able to keep going, look at alot of Journymen, should they still get a licience even though they've lost a few fights in a row. These guys probably take more punches through there career and suffer more knockdowns and knockouts than top level boxers, but they keep going , and don't forget that they are usually used as sparring partners as well.

Boxing is a dangerous sport, but its a free world, if a guy passes the tests then let him box

jimmywils · Post by **jimmywils** » 08 May 2007, 10:13

My point being that if Holyfield is able to fight, then he isnt classed as 'disabled'. Yeh, ok , my choice of words (unaffected) may have been a bit naive but regardless of wether he is banned in some states or not, he still fights on and is still ranked in many organisations.

The same cant be said for the G-Man or Micheal Watson

jimmywils · Post by **jimmywils** » 08 May 2007, 10:14

Old bones Ian wrote:Thing is boxing is a matter of choice, as long as a boxer passes all the medical examinations then he should be allowed to box. I'm not saying i'm keen on people like Holyfield etc boxing , but its their choice.

Other wise boxing will not be able to keep going, look at alot of Journymen, should they still get a licience even though they've lost a few fights in a row. These guys probably take more punches through there career and suffer more knockdowns and knockouts than top level boxers, but they keep going , and don't forget that they are usually used as sparring partners as well.

Boxing is a dangerous sport, but its a free world, if a guy passes the tests then let him box

Totally agree

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2007, 10:15

The new york state had to give him his licence back I believe, because they could find no reasonable grounds to revoke his license.

Holyfield actually sounds a lot better lately, for reasons I don't really understand, fighters often sound worst immediately after a fight (not that surprising really considering they are being punched in the head), and when they spend more time away from the ring, their speech seems to improve.

However, damage to the brain cells is cumulative and if you already have neurological damage, then adding to it by being continually punched in the cranium, can only worsen the damage. What is needed are new forms of test which can detect the damage that has been done which is evident in deteriorating speech patterns.

PompeyScot · Post by **PompeyScot** » 08 May 2007, 10:15

Oh, I totally agree too, I was just puzzled with jimmywils' post above, which he's now answered

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2007, 10:20

Old bones Ian wrote:Thing is boxing is a matter of choice, as long as a boxer passes all the medical examinations then he should be allowed to box. I'm not saying i'm keen on people like Holyfield etc boxing , but its their choice.

Other wise boxing will not be able to keep going, look at alot of Journymen, should they still get a licience even though they've lost a few fights in a row. These guys probably take more punches through there career and suffer more knockdowns and knockouts than top level boxers, but they keep going , and don't forget that they are usually used as sparring partners as well.

Boxing is a dangerous sport, but its a free world, if a guy passes the tests then let him box

I disagree with this statement. These journeymen fighters tend to take a lot less punishment, they cannot afford to get knocked out as they won't be able to fight again in the next few weeks.

The biggest danger is older fighters with a lot of wear and tear, competing at top level against young hungry lions looking to put a name on their record.

A guy who comes to mug, survive, and pick up a paycheck, is not in as much danger as an old past it fighter, trading on memory, looking to prove all his critics wrong. Holyfield has always been a warrior, and my major concern would be him getting a title shot against the likes of Wlad Klitchsko, and surviving a horrific beating over the full 12 rounds and taking big punches which are going to worsen his long term prognosis. This isn't beyond the realms of possibility, as Holyfield is still a marquee name, and Wlad has already shown he is quite willing to face off against fighters who are either past it (mercer), or are a level below him in routine title defences. Holyfield is possibly only one win away from a title shot, given the piss poor state of the division.

jimmywils · Post by **jimmywils** » 08 May 2007, 10:27

i hear what your saying jamesmcdonnell. Holyfields advisors/management should be advising him to call it a day, but theres too much money to be made by the boxer and his 'team'

The Real Deal wants to keep fighting and he isnt going to give it up. He wants to fight and hes been given the all clear by the medics (rightly or wrongly) so ultimately, its his decision.

Im sure his wife/kids etc have pointed out the dangers to him (his wife is a doctor in pain management) but he wants to continue. He knows the risks

E · Post by E » 08 May 2007, 11:00

Also remember sparring - in the Kronk gym they used to have wars all th time.

This will have done Tommy no good.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 08 May 2007, 11:10

At least in Britain we have a pretty good board of control when it comes to giving boxers licence's.
If Frank Bruno was american i have no doubt that he would have been boxing again, he would have got a licence from someone over there. Over here he couldn't do that.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 May 2007, 12:10

jimmywils wrote:My point being that if Holyfield is able to fight, then he isnt classed as 'disabled'. Yeh, ok , my choice of words (unaffected) may have been a bit naive but regardless of wether he is banned in some states or not, he still fights on and is still ranked in many organisations.

The same cant be said for the G-Man or Micheal Watson

What?.... so a fighter has to be as damaged as Watson or Mcclellen before he is stopped from fighting??.... I hope your not on any boxing boards or doing any promotions mate... Ali could still do some training /sparring in the 90s... would you have given him a license to fight then??....

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 08 May 2007, 13:40

silkov wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:It's always so sad to see a fighter suffer with his health when still a relatively young man. This is even more moving when it's such a fine fighter as Tommy Hearns who has given us so many thrills over the years.

Iran Barkley is also talking about making a comeback and there are already ugly whispers of a Hearns vs Barkley III fight, truely horrific thought.

It does sadly appear that all those tough fights have took their toll on Tommy. Add on top of that countess gym wars in the Kronk Gym, which were often by all accounts quite brutal.
Dont forget also long Amatuer careers, Aaron Pryor has the same illness that Jerry Quarry had and puts it partly down to all the amatuer fights that he had...

Of course, as you know Leon Spinks & Aaron Pryor were often on the same amateur team for international matches both were very close friends, both had simular styles in the ring both abused their bodies with drugs and drink. Now they are both in a bad way.

As for The Radar Bentitez, I also heard he suffered some bad KO's in the gym towards the end of his career.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 08 May 2007, 15:04

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Old bones Ian wrote:Thing is boxing is a matter of choice, as long as a boxer passes all the medical examinations then he should be allowed to box. I'm not saying i'm keen on people like Holyfield etc boxing , but its their choice.

Other wise boxing will not be able to keep going, look at alot of Journymen, should they still get a licience even though they've lost a few fights in a row. These guys probably take more punches through there career and suffer more knockdowns and knockouts than top level boxers, but they keep going , and don't forget that they are usually used as sparring partners as well.

Boxing is a dangerous sport, but its a free world, if a guy passes the tests then let him box
I disagree with this statement. These journeymen fighters tend to take a lot less punishment, they cannot afford to get knocked out as they won't be able to fight again in the next few weeks.

The biggest danger is older fighters with a lot of wear and tear, competing at top level against young hungry lions looking to put a name on their record.

A guy who comes to mug, survive, and pick up a paycheck, is not in as much danger as an old past it fighter, trading on memory, looking to prove all his critics wrong. Holyfield has always been a warrior, and my major concern would be him getting a title shot against the likes of Wlad Klitchsko, and surviving a horrific beating over the full 12 rounds and taking big punches which are going to worsen his long term prognosis. This isn't beyond the realms of possibility, as Holyfield is still a marquee name, and Wlad has already shown he is quite willing to face off against fighters who are either past it (mercer), or are a level below him in routine title defences. Holyfield is possibly only one win away from a title shot, given the piss poor state of the division.

Maybe James, or we just don't hear about the journymen when they have retired , its very unusual to read an interview from a journeyman of the 60s or 70's . So these guys could have alot of problems , but we would never know.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 08 May 2007, 16:43

Ive said it before .
A fighter MUST surround himself with people who care about his best interests.
Some guys would fight forever .Its in their heart.
You need to have someone who will tell you the truth, that its time to shut it down.
Although , the fighter may ignore the advice, at least the seed is planted.
The thing a fighter cant have is a bunch of yes men hangers on, telling him how great he is when its clearly the end of the road.

jimmywils · Post by **jimmywils** » 08 May 2007, 19:11

silkov wrote:
jimmywils wrote:My point being that if Holyfield is able to fight, then he isnt classed as 'disabled'. Yeh, ok , my choice of words (unaffected) may have been a bit naive but regardless of wether he is banned in some states or not, he still fights on and is still ranked in many organisations.

The same cant be said for the G-Man or Micheal Watson
What?.... so a fighter has to be as damaged as Watson or Mcclellen before he is stopped from fighting??.... I hope your not on any boxing boards or doing any promotions mate... Ali could still do some training /sparring in the 90s... would you have given him a license to fight then??....

Hang on a sec champ. First of all, my original point (which seems like many posts ago) was that it only takes one punch to disable or god forbid, kill a boxer. Evander Holyfield has a licence to box, given to him after medical examinations, no matter how dubious those examinations are. Would Ali pass an examination? No. Would Micheal Watson? No.
Would any boxer pass one who couldnt defend himself? No

Thats why there is such a thing as a boxing board of control, to save the likes of me and you from deciding who fights and who doesnt.

And i dont care much for promoting anyway....thanks for the careers advice all the same pal.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 09 May 2007, 06:47

jimmywils wrote:
silkov wrote:
jimmywils wrote:My point being that if Holyfield is able to fight, then he isnt classed as 'disabled'. Yeh, ok , my choice of words (unaffected) may have been a bit naive but regardless of wether he is banned in some states or not, he still fights on and is still ranked in many organisations.

The same cant be said for the G-Man or Micheal Watson
What?.... so a fighter has to be as damaged as Watson or Mcclellen before he is stopped from fighting??.... I hope your not on any boxing boards or doing any promotions mate... Ali could still do some training /sparring in the 90s... would you have given him a license to fight then??....
Hang on a sec champ. First of all, my original point (which seems like many posts ago) was that it only takes one punch to disable or god forbid, kill a boxer. Evander Holyfield has a licence to box, given to him after medical examinations, no matter how dubious those examinations are. Would Ali pass an examination? No. Would Micheal Watson? No.
Would any boxer pass one who couldnt defend himself? No

Thats why there is such a thing as a boxing board of control, to save the likes of me and you from deciding who fights and who doesnt.

And i dont care much for promoting anyway....thanks for the careers advice all the same pal.

Which just goes to show that fighters should be judged on more than just the results of a medical exam for their ability to fight... brain damage only shows up when its already too late to save a fighter from mental and physical impairement but most people know the early signs of a boxer going down that road such as slurred speech and diminished reflexes and balance... James Toney can still 'fight' and probably will pass his next medical but you'd be hard pressed to understand what he's saying these days...

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 09 May 2007, 07:21

rhino222 wrote:was sad to see the real hitman chatting on tv at the weekend, he voice seems in deterioration and therefore he is showing definate signs of cranial ring wear.

i hope thomas call it a day now while his faculties are still just in tact.

dont spoil your legacy tommy, dont fight again.

you have provided us with fantastic memories and we salute you.

Well said.

I didn't see the interview, but Tommy speech was pointing to signs of deterioration a long time ago.

He should stay retired, he simply has no need to fight anymore.

Thomas Hitman Hearns - Deterioration?

Re: Thomas Hitman Hearns - Deterioration?