Palle cancelling talks with Warren to negociate with Mundine

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 17 May 2007, 05:40

John Conteh beats the crap out of Calzaghe on talent and if they were to fight Max

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 05:47

Lenny wrote:John Conteh beats the crap out of Calzaghe on talent and if they were to fight Max

Even If Calzaghe lost which he could be reasonably favoured to, It wouldn't be easy.

Care to give me reasons why he'd beat the crap out of Joe?

Conteth was very talented though but had poor management.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 17 May 2007, 06:08

Beat the crap out of was going to far, but so is proclaiming Joe Calzaghe the greatest boxer to come out of Britain. I feel as far as talent goes (which is your argument seeing as Joe hasn't beaten too many fighters who were any good) Conteh is the superior boxer. Conteh problem was his hands and his love of a party, could you see Joe travel to the states to fight someone like Saad Muhammad when past his prime?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 May 2007, 06:09

Terry D wrote:I think it was the Ashira fight, a KO was promised.

Joe and his dad seem alright sorts. Unfortunately very few decent fights over a big career does not get you the respect and perks Joe wants. He wants the big-time fighter build without building a big-time fighter career.

Joe is acting a bit like a jazz trumpeter who wants to go off on big, showy solos without a decent bassline and drum beat underpinning him (not sure if that analogy works but fook it, I want to keep it for future use).

Taylor gets a bit of stick but in three fights he bested Joe's career (Hopkins I and II and Wright) in terms of quality. Sure Jermain is fighting a couple of blown-up LH's yet they are LH's who won titles, Joe fought Ashira who did nothing nowhere. Taylor fights quality when he takes on smaller guys, Joe does not.

Joe needs Taylor. Who could blame Jermain if he said 'sod it' and decided to spare himself the torture of 'negotiating' (if you can call slinging press statements about negotiation) with SN and opted to take on Pavlik instead?

definitely, it's as if one fight will make up for all. yet the one fight - lacy - simply saw things go back to normal afterward.

i like how glyn leach puts it in his critical BM columns. that a career of fighting shite WBO challengers defines a career more than the 1 fight.

it's not like there are any more Lacys who will travel abroad, take a pay cut AND get battered.

Of course Joe can rise above this (in a way) by making concessions to get a Taylor fight and winning in convincing fashion. Then he can say, "I did it my may, I beat the best Americans". But I won't be surprised if he wastes his career, his hands, and the time of anyone who taps away on forums on subjects like this.

I propose we lock all Joe Calzaghe threads until he gets a good opponent or a date abroad.

Calzaghe doesn't feel any need to prove he is the best, because in his own mind, it is beyond doubt. Sadly for the punters, that's not really the makings of an exciting career, and in truth, the Lacy peformance aside, Calzaghe has been a big dissapointment ever since beating Byron Mitchell, which was the fight which should have been his springboard to megafights in the US. How long ago was that now, 4-5 years? I've lost count.

that's the problem I have. Post 2003 it has just been horrible aside from the 1 fight. I don't begrudge him some easy fights to let him grow into his title when he wasn't fighting Woodhall, Reid and Brewer in the early, uneasy days. But this has just gone on too long and I'm afraid Joe has outstayed his welcome. I just hope Inkin is all he's made out to be, that the Russian comes over here and stops Joe.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 06:17

Lenny wrote:Beat the crap out of was going to far, but so is proclaiming Joe Calzaghe the greatest boxer to come out of Britain. I feel as far as talent goes (which is your argument seeing as Joe hasn't beaten too many fighters who were any good) Conteh is the superior boxer. Conteh problem was his hands and his love of a party, could you see Joe travel to the states to fight someone like Saad Muhammad when past his prime?

My last post said Joe Is one of the Greatest Boxers to come out of Britain not the greatest.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 17 May 2007, 06:46

ok max, I don't want to turn into one of those people who drag up old posts but recently on the Best ever brit boxer thread you said

Tsukiyomi wrote:I'd agree with McGuigan saying Joe Is due to no British fighter ever being as talented as Joe has been regardless of opposition.

Theirs been some good ones and all time greats but not that dominant or aggressive or that different from the typical British style of fighting.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 06:47

Well I do agree with that due to not seeing any Brit fighter even world class being that dominant against good opponents.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 09:26

Joe said Froch would have to win a world title otherwise he wouldn't be Interested.

I agree with that since Joe Is coming towards the end of his career while Froch Is yet to step up on the world scene.

Well Winky was a Light Middleweight. Personally he dehydrates to make Middle and when he made Light Middle so no I don't think he's too small personally but the critics will think he Is.

Winky Is on the world scene though so It could help Joe's resume on the world scene.

Well they did call out Hopkins when Hop was In his prime around the Tito win so at least he wasn't past It. Whats wrong with calling out Hopkins In his prime years? All you said what It amazes you and that Joe means little.

Hoe does Joe mean very little on the world stage, Is the world stage to you what America cares about? If he means very little then why are fighters like Taylor shown Interest?

Carl Froch Is a limited Power Puncher too and some fans on other forums have called him a poor mans Roy Jones. Calzaghe has dominated decent super middles too.

McCullough got beat nearly everytime at Featherweight.

I would never compare Calzaghe to Lewis either.

J · Post by J » 17 May 2007, 12:00

Max no one gives a flying fcuk about JC anymore mate to be honest.

he bores everyone to tears.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 12:06

He's doing better than Hatton anyway and he's the best we've got so I give a fornicate.

Hatton bored me against Urango while I found Witter more Impressive against Morua and Corley.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 May 2007, 12:09

Tsukiyomi wrote:
pundit wrote:
Tsukiyomi wrote:Don't make me educate you Mr Pundit.
Go ahead my old buddy!

Don't forget the spellcheck.
Spelling Is Irrelevant Mr Pundint.

Proper debate Is what matters.

You may be tired of Sports Networks business but why not be tired with Palle's antics too?

What antics exactly? Thus far the series of fights that Palle has made for Kessler is pretty impressive.

Promoters are rarely examples of honesty and truthtelling, but the idea of Warren and Palle being somehow similar and deserving the same degree of mistrust is nonetheless laughable.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 12:18

Well his whining and unprofessional manner antics for a start.

Lucas shouldn't of been anywhere near Kessler and Andrade was the crap mandatry, but negotiating with Mundine again when he's got 18 months before he has to fight him shows Palle has closed negotiations with Warren too soon just because Joe's going to be ringside with Taylor.

Taylor has to get past Spinks first before that might happen so Joe and Frank at the moment might only be keeping options open.

So It's not all that laughable.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 May 2007, 12:33

Kessler's fought whatever top 10 fighters were available - Mundine, Andrade, Beyer, Lucas - and to his credit beaten them.

It's clear to me that Joe shies away from perceived threats while it seems Warren wants to get cut rate foe after cut rate foe. Hence the choosing of Bika over Beyer.

Calzaghe is absolutely shameless with his opp and many feel he tried to duck even Lacy, going by a lot of attitudes and suspicions in the months before the fight.

They acted like because he beat Lacy, that made everything OK. Well it's not and in fact I've seldom seen so much scorn heaped on a fighter via message boards. Is it because he's a threat to Yank dominion? Because we're jealous that he can have as many easy office days as he wants? Or is it because he's the worst thing imaginable - an astonishing waste of talent?

I have a question. If Ricky hadn't left Warren, would we even be talking about Joe now?

*admittedly, there is 1 thing that doesn't fit i.e. Joe appearing on tomorrow's Friday Night Fights and that he's attending Taylor-Spinks...But is this just yet another tease that results in null & void?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 12:44

Either Kessler or win a world title at Light Heavy maybe. Joe was quoted as saying that In Boxing Monthly anyway.

I thought It was Winky saying on BBC Sport one time he would like to fight Calzaghe getting revenge for the beating he put on Lacy?

Didn't sound like Sarcasm. People were calling for Calzaghe to fight an old Hopkins though after he beat Tarver so who could complain?

Ashira lost a CLOSE fight to the overrated and Lazy Eastman which Eastman looks like he was always overrated and lazy. Joe won with one hand too. Eastman would of lost If his hand went.

So just because I don't agree with you, yet only agree to not compare Calzaghe and Lewis that you say I have a small sense of perspective?

If Calzaghe gets Taylor or Kessler than Joe's fight with either will be better than Hatton and Castillo. Hatton's a classic get the guy at the right time fighter.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 12:46

I have a question. If Ricky hadn't left Warren, would we even be talking about Joe now?

I'd say no.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 May 2007, 13:15

Tsukiyomi wrote:Well his whining and unprofessional manner antics for a start.

Lucas shouldn't of been anywhere near Kessler and Andrade was the crap mandatry, but negotiating with Mundine again when he's got 18 months before he has to fight him shows Palle has closed negotiations with Warren too soon just because Joe's going to be ringside with Taylor.

Taylor has to get past Spinks first before that might happen so Joe and Frank at the moment might only be keeping options open.

So It's not all that laughable.

Why keep "options open" when the boxing world and the promoter on the other side want that fight?

Ahhhh, to duck Kessler -- right.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 May 2007, 13:23

Terry D wrote:Joe Calzaghe's chance of a lucrative super-fight with American star Jermain Taylor is moving closer to reality.
allegedly allegedly, WBO super middleweight holder Calzaghe's promoter, had offered Taylor $4m, while the middleweight star's camp said they wanted $10m.

But Taylor's promoter Lou DiBella told BBC Radio Wales' Back Page programme they were now prepared to take $6m.

"A $4m offer was ridiculous and frankly Frank asked for more money guaranteed on Joe's side," DiBella said.

Although there is still a significant gap between the two camps' valuations, a deal could even be thrashed out next weekend providing Taylor beats Cory Spinks.

Calzaghe will be ringside at the Fed-Ex Forum in Memphis on 19 May to watch the 28-year-old from Little Rock defend his WBC and WBO titles.

Taylor won his titles from middleweight legend Bernard Hopkins and earned $6m from his draw against Ronald "Winky" Wright last June.

That has set the money standard that Calzaghe's US backers, cable television network HBO, must match if the 35-year-old Welshman is to entice Taylor up to super middleweight.

"If HBO pays the same money they paid for the Winky Wright fight, I will take US television (revenue) and let Frank keep the gate, the sponsorship, and the British and other international TV," DiBella said.

"But HBO needs to pay that $6m, that's what we're looking at.

"Right now Frank says there's no money in the pot from all those other revenue sources and I'm saying that I'm certainly not cutting in on the US revenue if that's the case.

"You're moving a fighter up in weight against the very best man at that weight and you're going into the lion's den to do it.

"It's difficult but Jermain's beaten Hopkins twice, drew with Winky Wright and defended his title five times, four at middleweight.

"It would be tough in Joe's backyard but we're not (previous Calzaghe victims) Peter Manfredo Jr or Jeff Lacy.

"Joe's a great, great fighter, but he's never left his home turf and he's never beaten a great, great fighter."

Calzaghe believed that his last defence, a three-round destruction of Manfredo in front of 35,000 spectators at the Millennium Stadium, could well have been his last in Britain.

But DiBella said that Taylor is prepared to come to the UK for the fight, paving the way for another huge night in Cardiff.

Manfredo was most famous for being the runner-up in the first US series of boxing reality TV show 'The Contender', but was given no realistic chance of causing an upset on Calzaghe's 20th defence.

But a match-up with a genuine contender such as Taylor could see ticket sales rocket.

"I don't want to look past the Spinks fight, but obviously Joe Calzaghe looms on the horizon as a possible opponent if I can get allegedly allegedly to make a fair deal with me," DiBella added.

"HBO does not believe that Jermain Taylor and Joe Calzaghe is as big a fight as Jermain Taylor and Winky Wright was, so we're not able to get the same licence fee from HBO.
"Based on the numbers we have right now we can't make a fight, we're about $1m apart.

"Our preference is to fight Calzaghe, we've indicated we're even willing to go to Cardiff or London to make the fight happen, but we're not willing to take on unfair economic terms."

From BBC

I put some points in bold. They are a sad statement on the ten year reign and SN's ability to make a fight. Why do SN always come across as amateurs when out of their small-pond?

Here you go. Sportsnetwork openly goes for a middlweight who struggles with light-middleweights to avoid Kessler. And some here think Palle should be blamed if he refuses to make a fool of himself.

SN are a bunch of cheating thugs and cowards. Always have been, always will be.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 13:31

Who'd duck a one dimensional mechanical fighter?

Just because they make an offer and be ringside at Taylor's fight doesn't mean the fight Is on yet, you have no case their ducking Mikkel yet my good lover Pundit.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 May 2007, 13:35

Terry D wrote:Call me jaded but if the Taylor fight is not made SN can then claim that Kessler and Jermain ducked out and that both are cowards and a fight with TBA (who will be a huge name) is taking place in September as a prelude to the 'big one' Hopkins-Calzaghe.

I sense Edison Miranda.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 17 May 2007, 13:41

Miranda would be a good fight, I know it's not a super fightbut people won't be queuing up to fight this hard man.
FW don't mind giving his boys these types of fights as they are relatively cheap.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 May 2007, 13:44

Terry D wrote:Call me jaded but if the Taylor fight is not made SN can then claim that Kessler and Jermain ducked out and that both are cowards and a fight with TBA (who will be a huge name) is taking place in September as a prelude to the 'big one' Hopkins-Calzaghe.

You will buy it won't you Max?

On the other hand they could make Taylor-Calzaghe and we will have to find something else to whinge about.

I'll throw my hat in the ring. At SM a rejuvinated Taylor will beat Joe. Part prediction part hope for the good of the division.

Then Kessler-Taylor will be negotiated very quickly. Taylor will win and become the first ever SM Champion. Whoo-Hah!

I won't buy Into shit yet.

Until September, If neither fights with Taylor or Kessler happen then I can't say what I will buy Into, but I won't buy Into a mismatch.

But they seem strong on getting Taylor.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 17 May 2007, 13:46

Coco wrote:Miranda would be a good fight, I know it's not a super fightbut people won't be queuing up to fight this hard man.
FW don't mind giving his boys these types of fights as they are relatively cheap.

Miranda would be like Lacy-light. Easy to hype up, easy to win.

This is why I sense this fight.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 17 May 2007, 13:50

I expect JC to beat Miranda, but I dunno how you can call it an easy fight.
Manfredo is what I call an easy fight and that prob did as much to raise JC's profile in the U.S as the Lacy fight did

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 17 May 2007, 13:55

pundit wrote:
Terry D wrote:Call me jaded but if the Taylor fight is not made SN can then claim that Kessler and Jermain ducked out and that both are cowards and a fight with TBA (who will be a huge name) is taking place in September as a prelude to the 'big one' Hopkins-Calzaghe.
I sense Edison Miranda.

It won't be Miranda, because if Taylor doesn't fight Calzaghe he'll be fighting the winner of Miranda/Pavlik. That's why they've been lined up on the undercard. None of these fighters based in the US want to come to Britain (and why should they), so it's only the one's who get offered a big sum up money who will come over. Miranda isn't gonna get a big sum of money to come here.

If Fwank can't persuade Taylor or Kessler to come to Britain in September, I can see Denis Inkin being the opponent.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 17 May 2007, 16:51

The main problem i have with Calzaghe is that throughout his career he has repeatedly dismissed challenges from legitmate tests for various reasons. Carl Froch - Who has he ever beaten?, Rudy Markussen - Not well known outside Denmark, Sven Ottke/Markus Beyer - Not going to Germany, will get robbed (footnote - was happy enough to go to fight Veit, why is that?)

But while all this has gone on he has consistently found enough reasons to accommodate the likes of Tocker Pudwill, Kabary Salem (Calzaghe quote: "He's a good fighter and deserves his chance") who was coming off a loss to the afforementioned Veit! Miguel Jimenez, Evans Ashira, Peter Manfredo Jnr etc etc

So in a contradiction of terms Calzaghe has a) dismissed credible fighters as not worthy while b) fighting even less credible opposition in the meantime.

All this equals = one big joke!!

Ho Ho Ho