Marciano vs. Patterson?

Trajan · Post by **Trajan** » 24 Sep 2003, 15:12

Since the possibility of a Rocky Marciano vs. Floyd Patterson fight has been mentioned here before, quotes from Sullivan's "Rock Of His Times" (with a couple of notes from me) concerning the end of Rocky's career and after:

"The other leading contenders-Nino Valdes, Hurricane Jackson, and Bob Baker-excited no one. A young, talented Floyd Patterson was starting his rise through the ranks, but he seemed a year or two away and didn't seem overly eager to fight Marciano."

I know Valdes said he was eager to fight Marciano, though never got a title fight against him, Patterson or anyone else. I'll have to check what his (Valdes') record was like at that time, and after, not sure on that. Jackson of course lost to Patterson. Baker died just recently.

"Marciano had abdicated, some thought, so a new king-perhaps Patterson-could rise to the throne. Then, once a new king was accepted, the old king (Marciano) could come back to try to reclaim his throne-in a fight that would have a monster gate, of course."

"After Patterson won the heavyweight championship in late 1956, Norris, with his empire starting to crumble around him, desperately tried to convince Marciano to come out of retirement to fight the new champion. He even offered the old champion a $1 million guarantee."

But of course Rocky wouldn't go for it, due to dislike/distrust of Norris and (IMO especially) Al Weill. Also likely he wanted to preserve that undefeated record and had seen past champions try to come back without ultimate success.

Anthony

Tyson KTFO 3 Times · Post by **Tyson KTFO 3 Times** » 25 Sep 2003, 09:20

Thanks for the read, very interesting.

A view on the matchup, even after retirement and coming back. i believe that Rocky would win this one.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 25 Sep 2003, 13:21

Rocky by KO early or late. He may have got a bit busted up during the fight but would have hit Patterson sooner or later with his Suzy Q.

delisa · Post by **delisa** » 25 Sep 2003, 13:31

Believe it or not, the Nevada State Atheletic Commission sanctioned the Moore-Valdez bout of May 2, 1955 as a World Heavyweihgt Title fight.

Valdez lost over 15.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 30 Sep 2003, 19:30

I think Marciano-Patterson would be an early KO for Marciano, in a thrilling fight while it lasted. Both of them would come right after each other, and throw tons of punches. Patterson would probably land more total, but all Rocky needs is one good shot and Patterson will be falling all over the place. Marciano in a smear in the end.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 02 Oct 2003, 01:45

marciano was the color commentator for either the second or third patterson/johannsen fight. at the end of it the fight annnouncer (it may have been chris schenkel) asked marciano if he'd consider coming back to fight patterson and marciano said something like "well, that's a good question" and let it pass. (I think this was just on classic boxing on espnc..but i missed it...anyone who saw it can clear this up if my memory is wrong.)

I did read from a couple of sources that marciano flirted with the idea of coming back to fight ingo when he was champion because marciano thought he was too arrogant. Rocky knew himself pretty well, though, and I' m sure he was aware how stamina and condition were the huge factors that made him what he was and didn't think he could get those back on that level again. He said some years later that one reason he quit when he did was after the archie moore fight he had a brief period where his hearing was slightly affected and he felt that was a sign to get out while he still had his excellent health. plus...as someone has alredy noted, he really came to despise George Weill.

marciano was too strong for patterson. the weight difference wouldn't have been all that much, but marciano was much much stronger than his weight indicated. i'm referring now to the period right after patterson won the title....not a year or so later.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 03 Oct 2003, 15:07

Jaclem wrote:marciano was the color commentator for either the second or third patterson/johannsen fight. at the end of it the fight annnouncer (it may have been chris schenkel) asked marciano if he'd consider coming back to fight patterson and marciano said something like "well, that's a good question" and let it pass. (I think this was just on classic boxing on espnc..but i missed it...anyone who saw it can clear this up if my memory is wrong.)

I did read from a couple of sources that marciano flirted with the idea of coming back to fight ingo when he was champion because marciano thought he was too arrogant. Rocky knew himself pretty well, though, and I' m sure he was aware how stamina and condition were the huge factors that made him what he was and didn't think he could get those back on that level again. He said some years later that one reason he quit when he did was after the archie moore fight he had a brief period where his hearing was slightly affected and he felt that was a sign to get out while he still had his excellent health. plus...as someone has alredy noted, he really came to despise George Weill.

marciano was too strong for patterson. the weight difference wouldn't have been all that much, but marciano was much much stronger than his weight indicated. i'm referring now to the period right after patterson won the title....not a year or so later.

Yes, a lot of people seem to assume that just because Marciano was 185-190 lbs., anyone over 200 lbs. could toss him around like a rag doll. But this is not true, as, for instance, Archie Moore said that Marciano was "far and away the strongest man I have ever encountered. And believe me, I've met some tough ones." I've read around, and many of his other opponents commented on how strong he was. In fact, a quote about Ezzard Charles mentioning it can be found on this very site. Who was it that posted that? And there wasn't really any serious weight gap between Marciano and Patterson. Patterson was generally about 189-196, Marciano around 184-190.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 03 Oct 2003, 15:49

I was the one who posted Ezzard Charles's comment about marciano being the strongest fighter he ever was in the ring with and he said that to me personally....and Charles gave away a lot of tonnage in his career.

we all know joe louis was finsihed when he fought marciano, but he was still bigger and stull pretty strong; yet marciano pushed him around as if he were a rag doll. i am not saying marciano would have beaten the prime louis ...no way....but just adding to how strong marciano was...wayout of proportion to his size.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 16 Oct 2003, 21:13

On first thought, this seems like a no-brainer...Marciano would destroy him in less than 5 rounds, maybe less than 3. BUT: You NEVER know what's going to happen in a boxing match...and THIS should be the one thing that we all agree on! Marciano SHOULD KO Patterson...but just suppose they were to fight today under today's conditions. Floyd had VERY fast hands to go along with his "glass jaw" (Floyd was dropped by a number of lesser opponents). Floyd just might have been able to cut Rocky with those fast hands before Marciano connected. And today, the way they stop fights so quickly, Floyd might just pull off a major miracle and win by TKO on cuts. (I have often wondered if they would have stopped the Marciano-Charles fight, the one where Marciano's nose was severely cut, were it happening today???) But, I'd bet the house on Marciano over Floyd...and I think I'd wind up with 2 houses.

I'm shocked to learn that Marciano weighed 240 at any point in his life, he never looked that heavy in the occaisional photo you'd see him in after retirement!

Also to Jaclem: I believe the quote you're referring to was something like-Announcer: "Rocky, do you ever think about making a comeback?" Rocky (laughing): "That would take a lot of thinking." I'm pretty sure I'm quoting Rocky correctly, I don't remember the exact question, however.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 17 Oct 2003, 00:41

sweet scientist.....i'm reasonably sure your quote of rocky's answer is word for word correct...or 99% close to it. i think it much more accurately expresses his "thinking" of the time.....that he hadn't totally dismissed it from his mind. the question itself was clear enough, even if we don't know the exact phrasing..it was whether he was considering or would consider a come back. thanks for clearing it up.

Trajan · Post by **Trajan** » 20 Oct 2003, 13:04

Getting back here, to this thread I started, with a reply concerning Nino Valdes and Bob Baker:

They were both (sort of) legitimate contenders, yet it's also clear from the record(s) why neither ever really got a world title shot (even if one of Valdes' fights with Archie Moore was considered a title bout by some, or at least an eliminator) against either Rocky Marciano or Floyd Patterson. Valdes and Baker just lost too many crucial fights, at crucial times.

Valdes, for example, lost twice (each) to Baker, Archie Moore and Eddie Machen. There was also a loss to Zora Folley.

Baker also lost to both Moore and Machen, besides two losses to "Hurricane" Jackson (who did indeed get a title shot, against Patterson).

Zora Folley and Eddie Machen btw are themselves an interesting subject, I may start another thread dealing with them.

Anthony

Marciano vs. Patterson?

Marciano vs. Patterson?

Valdez fought for the heavy title

Valdes and Baker