UFC - honest thoughts

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 29 May 2007, 09:02

Wales wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Autobarn wrote: Watch and see, within a year there will be MMA on either the terrestrial channels (less likely) or Sky, in fact I think there is already some on sky, and there is definetly some on other free to air digital channels ar the moment.

MMA is still only in its infancy, but it is already attracting lots of new fans. There was a massive crowd at the Cage Rage show I went to.

it is still the honeymoon period though, no doubt about that.
Yep, Sky had cage rage, sentana had UFC form manchester on PPV (and I suspect they'll have the belfast card on it too). Bravo have the UFC cards, and also the ultimate fighter (contender type show). Also, with the ultimate fighter the fighters who win do end up being quality fighters, just recently a contender from the show beat the guy who was his trainer in the show. The trainers are current MMA stars.

Also worth noting that a British guy won one of the ultiate fighter thingys recently, so there will be added UK TV and Media interest in the sport.

Going back a few years, Sky used to show old UFC fights late at night. This was before the massive rise in popularity. I bet they're kicking themselves now!

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 29 May 2007, 09:10

Dont think it happened in the end, did it?

Incidentally for anyone who cares - the smashing machine - great docu-dvd

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 29 May 2007, 09:13

Wales wrote:Dont think it happened in the end, did it?

Tyson ref'ed one of Terry Etim's fights - I think it was in Cage Rage. Poor bloke looked utterly clueless in there!

He also signed a promotional agreement with K1 in Japan, which ultimately came to nothing.

Top Dog · Post by **Top Dog** » 29 May 2007, 09:13

Captain Hook wrote:Because it's the honeymoon period...

There have been calls to ban boxing for years, and then this shit comes along where a guy can be laid out and another guy is elbowing him in the head....

Real skill......

Give me Mosley, Mayweather or Pacquiao anyday...

They are truly skilled, but Mayweather and Pac wouldnt last a round against the top UFC fighters. Theyd get instantly taken to the floor and elbowed to fornicate

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 29 May 2007, 09:16

Yes, and vice versa in a boxing ring. Comparing Apples and Oranges, Rugby and Football, Baseball and Cricket.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 29 May 2007, 10:31

And is getting elbowed on the floor a good thing? you think that's skill?

I don't...

It's 'kebab shop on a Saturday night scrapping', it's a gimmick.....

It won't last IMO

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 29 May 2007, 10:38

No, the skill is ensuring you avoid being in a position to be elbowed ...

The initial pride contests were far more brutal than UFC is now, its been toned down a lot to accomodate mainstream tv.

monkeybusiness · Post by **monkeybusiness** » 29 May 2007, 11:30

Gotta say, even though I've been a big boxing fan for the past ten years I am a UFC fan also in the past 2 years.
It took a couple of shows for me to get into it and appreciate the sublteties (esp on the ground) but it does offer big fights between the big names, though, admittedly, the pool of names is shallower than boxing.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 29 May 2007, 11:44

Captain Hook wrote:And is getting elbowed on the floor a good thing? you think that's skill?

I don't...

It's 'kebab shop on a Saturday night scrapping', it's a gimmick.....

It won't last IMO

Surprised at the levels of ignorance from some on this thread in all honesty.

The two are seperate sports, with some cross over appeal/audience share.

For me, boxing will alway be numero uno but comments like that above show a total contempt for the skills and hard work put in by the vast majority of MMA's participants.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 29 May 2007, 11:47

UFC is Pool to Boxing's Snooker.

Bigger pockets, fewer balls, less strategy and no matter how much you enjoy a good game of pool at the pub you couldn't tell me who the world champion is, and crucially, you're only really interested in it on the telly if Jimmy or Davis are playing.

That isn't to say boxing can't learn some lessons from it.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 29 May 2007, 11:56

The very same people who would cast their eyes skyward at the suggestion that boxing was ‘just two skill less Neanderthals beating each other to within an inch of their lives’ are very quick to make similar poorly researched judgements against MMA.

The intricacies and nuances of jui jitsu, wrestling and muay thai are just as complex and technically demanding as those of ‘the sweet science’.

Whilst a boxing fan can educate a layman on the requisite skill levels and practise required to hook off the jab, slip and counter and feint and draw leads, so too can an MMA aficionado teach people about the timing required in initiating an effective guard pass, or the mis-direction required when setting up an arm bar.

Boxing isn’t essentially a game of human conkers just as MMA isn’t akin to drunkards brawling on the street; if boxing fans cant be convinced of this then what chance the rest of the population??…

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 29 May 2007, 11:56

Terrible Terry - It's not ignorance, my comments are valid because I do have nothing but contempt for UFC, that's my opinion.

I've seen a bit of it to give a more rounded opinion, and it doesn't hold a candle to boxing, it never will.

It's a vicious and 'real' form of WWE, and while I'm sure you find it exciting watching a man lying in his pants for 20 minutes with Randy Couture on top of him, I don't....

It's for the people who don't understand boxing, the ones who shout "knock him out" from the first minute to the last of a boxing match, rather than enjoying the movement, the science, the in-fighting and the skill....

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 29 May 2007, 11:58

Just watch Wayne Wheeler in action and you'll come round

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 29 May 2007, 11:59

Captain Hook wrote:Terrible Terry - It's not ignorance, my comments are valid because I do have nothing but contempt for UFC, that's my opinion.

I've seen a bit of it to give a more rounded opinion

In all honesty mate your comments show me you know fu ck all about it.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 29 May 2007, 12:08

Educated response Terry, you've won me over ....

Now go get the baby oil and we'll all have a big grappling session

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 29 May 2007, 12:13

Captain Hook wrote:Educated response Terry, you've won me over ....

Now go get the baby oil and we'll all have a big grappling session

Homo-erotic imagery is the stock response of those who try and denigrate MMA as a real and contemporary sport.

You haven't got anything to hide there have you Cap'n??..

Joking aside, each to their own - I know its not for everyone (MMA that is!!) (I myself MUCH prefer boxing) but I just want to high light the skills and hard work MMA fighters put in - "Street fighting with tatoos on your head" it isnt.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 29 May 2007, 12:14

Damn I've been rumbled, now I'm off to tell the wife and kids about my fetish for Chuck Liddell.....

Yes each to their own Terry, each to their own....

I prefer darts but nobody wants to talk about that...

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 29 May 2007, 12:25

Not my cup of tea personally, I can see how some could get into it, it's raw and exciting but it's just not the noble art, too much like pub car park fighting for me.

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 29 May 2007, 12:46

E wrote:
black panther wrote:I reckon UFC though enjoyable is a fad and will come and go with regards to popularity whereas boxing is going nowhere!
Absolutely don't agree with this. Don't believe it's a fad - I mean why would a sport growing rapidly and in popularity suddenly decline? I think it will continue to grow but will live aslongside boxing.

Time will tell mate!

It just seems at the moment its "cool" to watch UFC.

ebeneezer · Post by **ebeneezer** » 29 May 2007, 13:32

Captain Hook wrote:I'm sure you find it exciting watching a man lying in his pants for 20 minutes with Randy Couture on top of him, I don't....

I'm sure Couture on top of a sheep would be more up your alley (or valley).

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 May 2007, 13:47

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Autobarn wrote:
101boxing wrote:not much of a fan myself.

i don't think it's caught on as much over here as ppl let on. i mean, it's on the bravo channel ffs, just as robin reid's IBO World title, non title 6-rounder was a couple of years ago.
Watch and see, within a year there will be MMA on either the terrestrial channels (less likely) or Sky, in fact I think there is already some on sky, and there is definetly some on other free to air digital channels ar the moment.

MMA is still only in its infancy, but it is already attracting lots of new fans. There was a massive crowd at the Cage Rage show I went to.

it is still the honeymoon period though, no doubt about that.

shit, even allegedly atrocities have great turnouts. what was it for the last accident, 35,000?? what was it for ricky hatton vs *punching bag* at the MEN circa 2001-2005? doesn't mean boxing is mainstream.it's summert to do on a saturday night, IMO, regardless of whether its boxing or MMA.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 29 May 2007, 14:12

I’m a big fan of mma, just as much as boxing. I first got a glimpse of it when the UFC came to England a few years ago at the Royal Albert Hall. Sky showed tonnes of fights trying to promote it, but then it went off air once the show had finished. I didn’t see it for a couple of years after that, but since Zuffa purchased the UFC in 2001 it’s exploded. They’ve installed proper rules and spent loads of money promoting the sport. That’s when I got back into it, because that’s around the time I got access to the internet and obviously the net is a lifeline for all combat sports fans.

I think the sport is great, because it gives fighters from all disciplines a chance to showcase their skills. A lot of boxing fans seem to think mma fighters are boxing rejects, but that’s so far from the truth it’s not even funny. I can’t think of ONE big name mma fighter who started off in boxing. MMA fighters are guy’s who have for years practiced disciplines like karate, judo, jiu jitsu, kickboxing, greco roman wreatling etc and have never had a proper outlet to put those skills to use. If mma fighters were boxing rejects they’d all have better hand skills, because even an average boxer knows how to use his hands properly. That’s the one area where mma fighters need to improve a lot and they are all the time.

I personally think the sport is here to stay and can’t see any reason why it would just fall apart as some boxing fans seem to think. Certainly in America it will stick around, that’s for sure. The owners have to much financial clout and have already spent too much money to just let it fade away. The sport is getting more and more coverage over there all the time. Not so certain about Britain though as we always catch on late, or not at all.

DavidPayne wrote:UFC is Pool to Boxing's Snooker.Bigger pockets, fewer balls, less strategy and no matter how much you enjoy a good game of pool at the pub you couldn't tell me who the world champion is, and crucially, you're only really interested in it on the telly if Jimmy or Davis are playing.

That isn't to say boxing can't learn some lessons from it.

I think your way off there mate. You are looking at it from a boxing fans point of view, obviously. I think the biggest problem with boxing fans trying to get into mma is they don't appreciate the ground game and the grappling enough. It can be very boring, but it's no different to watching a technical boxing match. Purists can appreciate a lot of the stuff Mayweather and co do, but a casual fan is gonna get bored shitless by it.

It's true that the hands of the majority of mma fighters pale in comparison to the average boxer, but that's to be expected. You have to remember that mma is still in its infancy and better athletes will come along with time. Look at boxing 100 years ago compared to today.

I can see why a lot of boxing fans don’t like mma, but I also get the impression that quite a few people are just being defensive towards boxing. I think both sports can co-exist, but if boxing’s popularity continues to decrease, then it will be more down to the problems within rather than the UFC swallowing it up.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 29 May 2007, 14:39

DavidPayne wrote:UFC is Pool to Boxing's Snooker.

Bigger pockets, fewer balls, less strategy and no matter how much you enjoy a good game of pool at the pub you couldn't tell me who the world champion is, and crucially, you're only really interested in it on the telly if Jimmy or Davis are playing.

That isn't to say boxing can't learn some lessons from it.

pool is much to good a sport to compare.

how about synchronised swimming.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 29 May 2007, 14:44

ArtOfWar wrote:I’m a big fan of mma, just as much as boxing. I first got a glimpse of it when the UFC came to England a few years ago at the Royal Albert Hall. Sky showed tonnes of fights trying to promote it, but then it went off air once the show had finished. I didn’t see it for a couple of years after that, but since Zuffa purchased the UFC in 2001 it’s exploded. They’ve installed proper rules and spent loads of money promoting the sport. That’s when I got back into it, because that’s around the time I got access to the internet and obviously the net is a lifeline for all combat sports fans.

I think the sport is great, because it gives fighters from all disciplines a chance to showcase their skills. A lot of boxing fans seem to think mma fighters are boxing rejects, but that’s so far from the truth it’s not even funny. I can’t think of ONE big name mma fighter who started off in boxing. MMA fighters are guy’s who have for years practiced disciplines like karate, judo, jiu jitsu, kickboxing, greco roman wreatling etc and have never had a proper outlet to put those skills to use. If mma fighters were boxing rejects they’d all have better hand skills, because even an average boxer knows how to use his hands properly. That’s the one area where mma fighters need to improve a lot and they are all the time.

I personally think the sport is here to stay and can’t see any reason why it would just fall apart as some boxing fans seem to think. Certainly in America it will stick around, that’s for sure. The owners have to much financial clout and have already spent too much money to just let it fade away. The sport is getting more and more coverage over there all the time. Not so certain about Britain though as we always catch on late, or not at all.

DavidPayne wrote:UFC is Pool to Boxing's Snooker.Bigger pockets, fewer balls, less strategy and no matter how much you enjoy a good game of pool at the pub you couldn't tell me who the world champion is, and crucially, you're only really interested in it on the telly if Jimmy or Davis are playing.

That isn't to say boxing can't learn some lessons from it.
I think your way off there mate. You are looking at it from a boxing fans point of view, obviously. I think the biggest problem with boxing fans trying to get into mma is they don't appreciate the ground game and the grappling enough. It can be very boring, but it's no different to watching a technical boxing match. Purists can appreciate a lot of the stuff Mayweather and co do, but a casual fan is gonna get bored shitless by it.

It's true that the hands of the majority of mma fighters pale in comparison to the average boxer, but that's to be expected. You have to remember that mma is still in its infancy and better athletes will come along with time. Look at boxing 100 years ago compared to today.

I can see why a lot of boxing fans don’t like mma, but I also get the impression that quite a few people are just being defensive towards boxing. I think both sports can co-exist, but if boxing’s popularity continues to decrease, then it will be more down to the problems within rather than the UFC swallowing it up.

i respect your opinions bollocks.

but i've seen quite a few fights now and always thought it was cack tbh.

that liddell fight was ridiculous.

if a top boxer fell apart that easily, we'd be ridiculing em for months.

glahn · Post by **glahn** » 29 May 2007, 15:25

I tend to find UFC pretty boring. The fights always seem to follow a pretty similar pattern too. The trouble is: when there's a lot of stand-up fighting I just think "this is nowhere near as good as a good boxing match", and if it's all on the mat I just get bored. I don't doubt that there is a lot of technical profficiency in it and it takes a long time to learn, but it doesn't necessarily make it good to watch.