Bookie got Odds up for Calzaghe - Kessler

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 30 May 2007, 10:30

Taylor is a non starter, even his promoter & trainer agree it'd be a bad move to take on Joe - fast, bigger & a southpaw to boot.

So it's Kessler or bust really, and it sounds like FW knows as much as things grind on towards an agreement.

I reckon they'll hammer it out for a Sep date in Denmark.

Favorite? Hard to call, which is why it's such a big fight - but as Joe hits the twilight of his career I'd make Kessler as slight favorite as well.

But Calzaghe is as live an underdog as you'll ever see.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 30 May 2007, 10:40

MightyWarrior wrote:Taylor is a non starter, even his promoter & trainer agree it'd be a bad move to take on Joe - fast, bigger & a southpaw to boot.

So it's Kessler or bust really, and it sounds like FW knows as much as things grind on towards an agreement.

I reckon they'll hammer it out for a Sep date in Denmark.

Favorite? Hard to call, which is why it's such a big fight - but as Joe hits the twilight of his career I'd make Kessler as slight favorite as well.

But Calzaghe is as live an underdog as you'll ever see.

Joe: "I want Kessler."
2 weeks later, Joe: "Taylor's the man".

1 week later "Kessler's the fight we need"

couple of days later, "I want the Hopkins-Wright winner."

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 30 May 2007, 11:10

When Calzaghe Is an underdog he becomes a god. 8)

I do prefer Calzaghe/Kessler to Joe fighting Taylor though, both Taylor and Kessler have good jabs and straight combos but Kessler's more fine tuned with the combinations.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 30 May 2007, 11:40

Kessler is also a proven 168 lb fighter with title belts, and he doesn't fight with the aggression of Gandhi.

I think Kessler is somewhat better than Lacy, though just how much I can't be sure, at least he's been beating decent opposition.

I am tempted to make Kessler the favourite, but I'm just not sure, Calzaghe is a different fighter when he gets the bit between his teeth.

COME ON JOE!

If this fight happens, I will be rooting Calzaghe all the way, this would be a great victory for Calzaghe, and really, for me would define him as the greatest 168 lb champ to date.

Mein Gott in Himmel, das ist fantastich!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 30 May 2007, 11:49

Personally the only trouble I see Kessler giving Calzaghe Is his straight right hand due but Joe's chin holds up well when hit with a right and you've got to be quick enough to get the right In.

Thats why I laugh when Froch says he'll get Joe with his right uppercut as uppercuts wouldn't be fast enough, It's always straight rights that catch Joe's chin.

Kessler can be open to the body with that stepping In and out movement and hasn't shown Inside fighting and fought anyone on Joe's level with a high workrate so I'd worry about Kessler more than Joe.

Mikkel to me looks like your average mechanical fighter and pretty one dimensional because he doesn't fight any other way Maybe he'd be different against Joe.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 30 May 2007, 15:10

I think Kessler is way better than Lacy. Can't imagine him struggling with Omar Sheika or Syd Vanderpool. It's been blatantly obvious that he's a special fighter, but - like Hopkins - he may have to rattle off title defense after title defense before he gets his due respect.

As some ppl say the jab is a lost art. Kessler's is outstanding and IMO his approach to fighting, mechanical as it is, has stoood the test of styles - defensive slickster/counter puncher (Mundine), precise southpaw (Beyer), stalking sluggers (Lucas, Siaca), and a giant who never stops throwing (Andrade).

Kessler will soon get some very stern tests. Inkin (educated pressure), Bute (big southpaw with power & fast combos), Pavlik (will grow into super midde, a well balanced puncher). Froch, I think would be easy for him (Carl waits too long for a mistake to pounce on). Chad Dawson, WBC light heavy champ, has the best chance of beating Kessler.

I personally don't see Joe going for him. Doubt Joe even thinks of fighting Kessler until he's beaten Taylor (and for that Taylor has to beat Pavlik...who will Joe's next target be, Pavlik?...yawn). Then he would have bargaining power, probably, as Taylor is a 'name' though not an elite one.

With Calzaghe, I think its just best to give up hope. Like ppl hoped that Tyson would be great again time after time throughout the 90s and 00s. Like ppl hoped that Bowe would stop gorgin, get himself in shape and be the best heavyweight of the 90s. Like ppl hoped that Toney would get fit again after Jones drubbed him. Ten years of Calzaghe as champion and we're still hoping. Why? Don't we know better. Some causes are lost.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 30 May 2007, 15:12

Smokin Joe Calzaghe wrote:Personally the only trouble I see Kessler giving Calzaghe Is his straight right hand due but Joe's chin holds up well when hit with a right and you've got to be quick enough to get the right In.

Thats why I laugh when Froch says he'll get Joe with his right uppercut as uppercuts wouldn't be fast enough, It's always straight rights that catch Joe's chin.

Kessler can be open to the body with that stepping In and out movement and hasn't shown Inside fighting and fought anyone on Joe's level with a high workrate so I'd worry about Kessler more than Joe.

Mikkel to me looks like your average mechanical fighter and pretty one dimensional because he doesn't fight any other way Maybe he'd be different against Joe.

Check out the 2nd Veit fight. Joe nearly gets dropped at the end of the 1st round. He goes all bow-legged for a second and they dip down. I see it as a big weakness for Calzaghe. Veit threw it straight and correct and a # of times Joe's chin was caught up in the air.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 30 May 2007, 16:14

Given up hope? It's only been a little over a year since Joe partly unified, would Kessler and Beyer have done the unification If Joe and Jeff didn't do It first?

Hatton took 2 years till he finally goes for someone like Castillo.

Kessler's stance Is simular to Veits, Kessler has faster footwork though.

Kessler's only bargaining power Is the fact that he holds the WBC and WBA belts otherwise he'd have none.

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 30 May 2007, 16:39

I think it's fair to say Joe excelled in a quiet era, coming to the fore just as Eubank and Collins were moving away. Now that the division's hotting up again, he - quite reasonably - is afraid of tainting his record with gambles.

Kessler is an unknown quantity, and Calzaghe's smart enough to realise the danger; he would train hard if the fight was made. My feeling is that if Reid could catch him, Kessler can. Robin couldn't hurt him though, otherwise he'd have probably won by KO since he landed cleanly a couple of times.

I'm sure what grates JC is that he'd be risking his career against a guy who isn't renowned in America. It's a sad fact that Hopkins remains the biggest draw.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 31 May 2007, 04:17

Grilling Machine wrote:I think it's fair to say Joe excelled in a quiet era, coming to the fore just as Eubank and Collins were moving away. Now that the division's hotting up again, he - quite reasonably - is afraid of tainting his record with gambles.

Kessler is an unknown quantity, and Calzaghe's smart enough to realise the danger; he would train hard if the fight was made. My feeling is that if Reid could catch him, Kessler can. Robin couldn't hurt him though, otherwise he'd have probably won by KO since he landed cleanly a couple of times.

I'm sure what grates JC is that he'd be risking his career against a guy who isn't renowned in America. It's a sad fact that Hopkins remains the biggest draw.

Joe has had excellent nights. Eubank & Lacy were brilliant achievements, Woodhall, Reid, Brewer, Mitchell are good solid names to have. Yet there were too many missed opportunities. Glen Johnson, twice, for instance. A Reid rematch -we all wanted to see that. I think Warren has got a nerve, now saying that Jones Jr never wanted the fight. Shit, Joe was an unknown champion and Jones the p4p best.

I think Taylor is NOTHING more than the guy who ended Hopkins' reign. He is to Hopkins, what Tarver is to Jones. He got him at the end. Joe could annihilate Taylor but won't get any credit. To me Kessler is a far better boxer.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 31 May 2007, 13:29

Do they give odds on the fight actually happening? I say 20 to 1 against.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Mein Gott in Himmel, das ist fantastich!

...im Himmel ... fantastisch. If you're going to be ein Kraut, please try and do it richtig.

jangeorg · Post by **jangeorg** » 31 May 2007, 17:00

Smokin Joe Calzaghe wrote:Personally the only trouble I see Kessler giving Calzaghe Is his straight right hand due but Joe's chin holds up well when hit with a right and you've got to be quick enough to get the right In.

Thats why I laugh when Froch says he'll get Joe with his right uppercut as uppercuts wouldn't be fast enough, It's always straight rights that catch Joe's chin.

Kessler can be open to the body with that stepping In and out movement and hasn't shown Inside fighting and fought anyone on Joe's level with a high workrate so I'd worry about Kessler more than Joe.

Mikkel to me looks like your average mechanical fighter and pretty one dimensional because he doesn't fight any other way Maybe he'd be different against Joe.

One dimensional???,Kessler isn't an another Lacy

Kesslers movement is grade A and he will take Calzaghe to a place he has never been before,with straight, fast lead rights and punching accuracy. I really see something special in Kessler he just seems to have it all and if anyone can bring it out of him and push him it willl be Joe Calzaghe

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 31 May 2007, 20:35

I didn't say Kessler Is another Lacy.

I said he's one dimensional because Mikkel fights the same In his last few fights.

You sound like the best user on ESB.

Calzaghe Is master of the Super middleweights.

Someone on ESB also said Warren confirmed he accepted Palle's offer for Copenhagen In September too according to BBC 5 live, Warren Is Palle's master.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Jun 2007, 06:43

Eric the Viking wrote:Do they give odds on the fight actually happening? I say 20 to 1 against.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Mein Gott in Himmel, das ist fantastich!
...im Himmel ... fantastisch. If you're going to be ein Kraut, please try and do it richtig.

Mein Gott! Give us a break will ya?

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 01 Jun 2007, 12:38

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Mein Gott! Give us a break will ya?

Nein.

aumen Runter:

Speaking viss der korrekt grahmerr ist sehr important, mein Englischer Freund.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 01 Jun 2007, 12:44

Katon! wrote:No offence but Kessler Is lucky he's In an average division like Super Middleweight to be so overrated.

Froch Vs Calzaghe would be a mismatch, all Froch has done has fought Euro and Domestic level fights while struggling with some yet people are thinking he'll be a match for Calzaghe.

I absolutely agree, but it is the fight people want to see - Who would complain, I certainly wouldnt - Froch IS overrated and time will show this is the case - The low hand inviting his opponent to go closer works at his level but against Calzaghe, Kessler, Inkin, Bute and Mundine he will come unstuck.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 01 Jun 2007, 13:33

Kessler is far from overrated thats just ridiculous talk.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 01 Jun 2007, 18:06

nickd wrote:Kessler is far from overrated thats just ridiculous talk.

Can't you say why?

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 07 Jun 2007, 19:24

The Cobra is the perfect name for Froch. He flares up inviting his opponent to make a move, focusing all his thoughts on striking. He might be in trouble against anyone with superb agility, which is what Calzaghe had in spades ten years ago; dunno if he has enough stamina left to elude the hungry Froch.
Carl's very strong at the weight too, some could exploit the openings but few would run him over.