Of course you're right. Burns hardly had a history of being stopped, and he fought a few pretty hard punchers during his career. In fact, I think besides the police stopping his fight with JJ, the only other time he didn't finish a fight was his last fight when he was about 40. Most likely a prime Burns would have been able to survive against Liston.HomicideHenry wrote:[most say Burns would be blasted out easily, but if Burns could take the most hellacious shots from Jack Johnson for 14 rounds, then Burns certainly could have taken Liston's shots for at least 6]
All-Time Heavyweight Boxing World Cup
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Indeed. Another note many people over look on Burns was his phenomenal power for his size. Mind you, Joe Grimm "The Indian Rubber Ball", couldn't get knocked out by Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, and numerous men---but the only man he was scared of was Burns, asking in request for 1 minute rounds with the "Little Giant of Hanover".
Editorial Note:
For those who don't know who Joe Grimm is, he was one of RING magazine's top rated "Toughest" fighters of all time, on a list that had Marciano, LaMotta, Tex Cobb right there with him. Though being described as a man with "no boxing skill whatsoever", Grimm was universally famous as being impossible to knock out. Langford could only win decisions over him, as did Jack Johnson.
The fight that I just mentioned (request of 1 minute rounds) was merely an exhibition, but Burns still managed to brutalise Grimm. Not to say Burns was anywhere near Liston's power, but Burns was quite the powerful man knocking out men 20-30 pounds heavier than himself, and if Grimm was nervous about Burns, it does show that he would have had the ability to have gave Liston some hell here and there.
Burns dropped Grimm 5x's in those 3 minutes.
Editorial Note:
For those who don't know who Joe Grimm is, he was one of RING magazine's top rated "Toughest" fighters of all time, on a list that had Marciano, LaMotta, Tex Cobb right there with him. Though being described as a man with "no boxing skill whatsoever", Grimm was universally famous as being impossible to knock out. Langford could only win decisions over him, as did Jack Johnson.
The fight that I just mentioned (request of 1 minute rounds) was merely an exhibition, but Burns still managed to brutalise Grimm. Not to say Burns was anywhere near Liston's power, but Burns was quite the powerful man knocking out men 20-30 pounds heavier than himself, and if Grimm was nervous about Burns, it does show that he would have had the ability to have gave Liston some hell here and there.
Burns dropped Grimm 5x's in those 3 minutes.
Last edited by HomicideHenry on 17 May 2007, 02:36, edited 1 time in total.
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
RESULTS FROM 6 MAY 2008:
Miske D12 Baer
With both fighters out of the tournament before the fight began, it was clear than Baer was the less prepared and motivated of the two. Miske took off to an early lead, with Baer fighting in spurts to ocassionally hurt Miske and steal a round. Baer knocked Miske down with a big overhand right early in the 12th, and looked to finish him off, only for Miske get on his bike for the remainder of the round and make it to the final bell. Scorecards read 115:112 Baer, 115:112 Miske, and 113:113. The relatively small crowd booed the decision.
Walcott UD12 Quarry
In this competitive fight, both fighters were hurt at various stages. However, Walcott was far too slick for Quarry, slipping and countering his way to a wide decision. Scorecards read 118:110, 117:111 and 116:112, all to Walcott.
Sharkey UD12 Johansson
This was an entertaining fight that swung back and forth, but in the end there was no doubt that Sharkey deserved the decision. Johansson started fast, hurting Sharkey in the 2nd and 3rd, clearly winning all of the first four rounds. Sharkey hung on tough to turn the fight around, and have Johansson hurt in the 5th and close to going down in the 9th. The pace slowed down in the final rounds, but Sharkey generally had the better of the exchanges. Scorecards read 116:113 and 115:113 twice, all to Sharkey.
Tunney UD12 Norton
Although Norton was already out of the tournament, he gave Tunney a real fright, as a loss would have also sent Tunney out. Norton was generally the busier, but Tunney the more effective. By the final round both fighters were still throwing a lot of punches, although clearly exhausted. Scorecards read 115:113 three times, all to Tunney.
Bowe UD12 Machen
Although Bowe was already through to the next round, and Machen out of the tournament, this was still a competitive and brutal fight. Both men were visibly hurt at various stages, but it was clear that Bowe had won the fight. Scorecards read 116:112, 115:113 and 115:114 all to Bowe.
Patterson UD12 Carnera
It was clear from the opening bell that this was a battle of size vs skill. Patterson was wobbled in the 7th round, but apart from that had little trouble. He knocked Carnera down in the 5th, 10th and 12th rounds, the cards read 119:106, 117:108 and 116:109, all to Patterson.
Bugner D12 Bivins
With both fighters out of the tournament, this fight meant little, but was highly entertaining. Bivins was the busier, but Bugner's punches did the more damage. Bivins looked like he was going down in the 6th and was close to out on his feet at the end of the 12th round, but Bugner was unable to finish him off, leaving the result in the hands of the judges. Scores read 115:113 Bivins, 116:112 Bugner, and 114:114.
Liston KO3 Burns
In the end it was Liston's jab that made the difference in this fight. The much shorter Burns proved elusive, and managed to get off some power shots of his own to Liston's head and body in the first two closely matched rounds. However, Liston's thumping jab continued to land, causing a swelling over Burns's right eye. This was perhaps what caused Burns not to notice the Liston left hook that caught him flush on the cheek in the third round, which was followed with a straight right, sending the smaller man crashing to the canvas, not to rise for a minute.
POINTS TABLES (Final):
GROUP A
Ali 9
Schmeling 6
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M Baer 1
Miske 1
GROUP B
Lewis 9
Frazier 6
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Walcott 3
Quarrey 0
GROUP C
Foreman 9
Charles 6
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Sharkey 0
Johansson 0
GROUP D
Tunney 7
Johnson 6
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Tyson 4
Norton 0
GROUP E
Holmes 9
Bowe 6
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Wills 3
Machen 0
GROUP F
Marciano 9
Patterson 6
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Carnera 3
Stribling 0
GROUP G
Dempsey 9
Holyfield 6
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Bugner 1
Bivins 1
GROUP H
Louis 9
Liston 6
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Langford 3
Burns 0
Next round of fights:
ROUND OF 16
7 July 2008
Ali vs Frazier - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Ali won by a clear decision by got knocked down, Frazier lost by an 8th round stoppage in a highly competitive fight.
Lewis vs Schmeling - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Lewis won by an 8th round TKO in a tough fight, Schmeling lost a clear decision but had some success late.
Foreman vs Johnson - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Foreman won by a 4th round KO but struggled early, Johnson won a clear decision but got konocked down.
Tunney vs Charles - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Tunney won a close but unanimous decision is a tough fight, Charles was brutally KO'd in the 4th after having early success.
Holmes vs Patterson - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Holmes won a clear decision in a competitive fight, Patterson won by a wide decision.
Marciano vs Bowe - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Marciano won by a 10th round TKO is a one-sided fight, Bowe won by a close but clear decision in a tiring fight.
Dempsey vs Liston - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Dempsey won by a 7th round KO in a competitive fight, Liston won by an easy 3rd round KO.
Louis vs Holyfield - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Louis won by a 7th round KO in a competitive fight where he was knocked down early, Holyfield was KO'd in the 7th round of a competitive fight.
Miske D12 Baer
With both fighters out of the tournament before the fight began, it was clear than Baer was the less prepared and motivated of the two. Miske took off to an early lead, with Baer fighting in spurts to ocassionally hurt Miske and steal a round. Baer knocked Miske down with a big overhand right early in the 12th, and looked to finish him off, only for Miske get on his bike for the remainder of the round and make it to the final bell. Scorecards read 115:112 Baer, 115:112 Miske, and 113:113. The relatively small crowd booed the decision.
Walcott UD12 Quarry
In this competitive fight, both fighters were hurt at various stages. However, Walcott was far too slick for Quarry, slipping and countering his way to a wide decision. Scorecards read 118:110, 117:111 and 116:112, all to Walcott.
Sharkey UD12 Johansson
This was an entertaining fight that swung back and forth, but in the end there was no doubt that Sharkey deserved the decision. Johansson started fast, hurting Sharkey in the 2nd and 3rd, clearly winning all of the first four rounds. Sharkey hung on tough to turn the fight around, and have Johansson hurt in the 5th and close to going down in the 9th. The pace slowed down in the final rounds, but Sharkey generally had the better of the exchanges. Scorecards read 116:113 and 115:113 twice, all to Sharkey.
Tunney UD12 Norton
Although Norton was already out of the tournament, he gave Tunney a real fright, as a loss would have also sent Tunney out. Norton was generally the busier, but Tunney the more effective. By the final round both fighters were still throwing a lot of punches, although clearly exhausted. Scorecards read 115:113 three times, all to Tunney.
Bowe UD12 Machen
Although Bowe was already through to the next round, and Machen out of the tournament, this was still a competitive and brutal fight. Both men were visibly hurt at various stages, but it was clear that Bowe had won the fight. Scorecards read 116:112, 115:113 and 115:114 all to Bowe.
Patterson UD12 Carnera
It was clear from the opening bell that this was a battle of size vs skill. Patterson was wobbled in the 7th round, but apart from that had little trouble. He knocked Carnera down in the 5th, 10th and 12th rounds, the cards read 119:106, 117:108 and 116:109, all to Patterson.
Bugner D12 Bivins
With both fighters out of the tournament, this fight meant little, but was highly entertaining. Bivins was the busier, but Bugner's punches did the more damage. Bivins looked like he was going down in the 6th and was close to out on his feet at the end of the 12th round, but Bugner was unable to finish him off, leaving the result in the hands of the judges. Scores read 115:113 Bivins, 116:112 Bugner, and 114:114.
Liston KO3 Burns
In the end it was Liston's jab that made the difference in this fight. The much shorter Burns proved elusive, and managed to get off some power shots of his own to Liston's head and body in the first two closely matched rounds. However, Liston's thumping jab continued to land, causing a swelling over Burns's right eye. This was perhaps what caused Burns not to notice the Liston left hook that caught him flush on the cheek in the third round, which was followed with a straight right, sending the smaller man crashing to the canvas, not to rise for a minute.
POINTS TABLES (Final):
GROUP A
Ali 9
Schmeling 6
----------
M Baer 1
Miske 1
GROUP B
Lewis 9
Frazier 6
----------
Walcott 3
Quarrey 0
GROUP C
Foreman 9
Charles 6
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Sharkey 0
Johansson 0
GROUP D
Tunney 7
Johnson 6
----------
Tyson 4
Norton 0
GROUP E
Holmes 9
Bowe 6
----------
Wills 3
Machen 0
GROUP F
Marciano 9
Patterson 6
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Carnera 3
Stribling 0
GROUP G
Dempsey 9
Holyfield 6
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Bugner 1
Bivins 1
GROUP H
Louis 9
Liston 6
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Langford 3
Burns 0
Next round of fights:
ROUND OF 16
7 July 2008
Ali vs Frazier - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Ali won by a clear decision by got knocked down, Frazier lost by an 8th round stoppage in a highly competitive fight.
Lewis vs Schmeling - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Lewis won by an 8th round TKO in a tough fight, Schmeling lost a clear decision but had some success late.
Foreman vs Johnson - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Foreman won by a 4th round KO but struggled early, Johnson won a clear decision but got konocked down.
Tunney vs Charles - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Tunney won a close but unanimous decision is a tough fight, Charles was brutally KO'd in the 4th after having early success.
Holmes vs Patterson - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Holmes won a clear decision in a competitive fight, Patterson won by a wide decision.
Marciano vs Bowe - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Marciano won by a 10th round TKO is a one-sided fight, Bowe won by a close but clear decision in a tiring fight.
Dempsey vs Liston - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Dempsey won by a 7th round KO in a competitive fight, Liston won by an easy 3rd round KO.
Louis vs Holyfield - Both last fought 9 weeks ago. Louis won by a 7th round KO in a competitive fight where he was knocked down early, Holyfield was KO'd in the 7th round of a competitive fight.
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pundit
- Heavyweight
ROUND OF 16
Ali SD12 Frazier. We know how these tow match up
Lewis UD12 Schmeling. Lewis too big, too much of a reach advantage over Schmeling. Lewis' jab wins the fight
Foreman LUD12 Johnson . The defensive master Johnson leaves a frustrated Foreman behind.
Tunney LSD12 Charles The #1 and #2 ATG light-heavyweight match-up. Fine display of speed, techinque, discipline. Charles by razor-thin decision.
Holmes UD12 Patterson. Patterson has his moments, but Holmes' jab wins the contest.
Marciano UD12 Bowe. In the later rounds Bowe gets hit from pillar to post by the much smaller Marcinao, but refuses to go down.
Dempsey LUD12 Liston Pretty decisive win by Liston who keeps Dempsey at bay with his sharp jab and boxes him from the outsie
Louis UD12 Holyfield. Holyfield tries everything, but everything he tries Louis does better.
Ali SD12 Frazier. We know how these tow match up
Lewis UD12 Schmeling. Lewis too big, too much of a reach advantage over Schmeling. Lewis' jab wins the fight
Foreman LUD12 Johnson . The defensive master Johnson leaves a frustrated Foreman behind.
Tunney LSD12 Charles The #1 and #2 ATG light-heavyweight match-up. Fine display of speed, techinque, discipline. Charles by razor-thin decision.
Holmes UD12 Patterson. Patterson has his moments, but Holmes' jab wins the contest.
Marciano UD12 Bowe. In the later rounds Bowe gets hit from pillar to post by the much smaller Marcinao, but refuses to go down.
Dempsey LUD12 Liston Pretty decisive win by Liston who keeps Dempsey at bay with his sharp jab and boxes him from the outsie
Louis UD12 Holyfield. Holyfield tries everything, but everything he tries Louis does better.
Last edited by pundit on 25 May 2007, 15:17, edited 2 times in total.
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pound per pound
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1602
- Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 14:36
picks
Ali SD12 Frazier
Lewis TKO 6 over Schmeling
Foreman KO 4 over Johnson
Tunney UD 12 Charles
Holmes TKO 6 over Patterson
Bowe UD 12 over Marciano
Dempsey SD over 12 Liston
Holyfield TKO 9 over Louis
Lewis TKO 6 over Schmeling
Foreman KO 4 over Johnson
Tunney UD 12 Charles
Holmes TKO 6 over Patterson
Bowe UD 12 over Marciano
Dempsey SD over 12 Liston
Holyfield TKO 9 over Louis
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
Re: picks
Ali UD Frazier
Lewis TKO9 Schmeling
Johnson TKO7 Foreman
Tunney Draw Charles
Holmes UD Patterson
Marciano KO11 Bowe
Liston TKO4 Dempsey
Louis UD Holyfield
Lewis TKO9 Schmeling
Johnson TKO7 Foreman
Tunney Draw Charles
Holmes UD Patterson
Marciano KO11 Bowe
Liston TKO4 Dempsey
Louis UD Holyfield
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Ali vs Frazier.
Frazier has fought Ali 3 times.....He knows how Ali operates. Frazier SD.
Lewis vs Schmeling.
Lewis uses his reach to keep Schmeling at bay....But Schmeling is a atchnically gifted boxer, and catches Lewis twice in 2 different rounds.
Schemling SD.
Foreman vs Johnson.
Johnson comes right for Big George....After a destructive 5 rounds (with both men falling), the referee has to stoip the fight. Foreman wins by referee stopage.
Tunney vs Charles.
Charles is deadly, quick-footed, quick-witted and quick-fisted. Chares wins by UD.
Holmes vs Patterson.
Patterson's quick enough to last the pace, but Holmes always had the upper hand. Holmes wins by UD.
Marciano vs Bowe.
Marciano wins by KO round 12.
Dempsey vs Liston.
Liston knocks Dempsey down in the early rounds...But becomes disillusoined as Dempsey's heart surges him forward. Dempsey wins by KO round 11.
Louis vs Holyfield.
Joe Louis wins UD.
Frazier has fought Ali 3 times.....He knows how Ali operates. Frazier SD.
Lewis vs Schmeling.
Lewis uses his reach to keep Schmeling at bay....But Schmeling is a atchnically gifted boxer, and catches Lewis twice in 2 different rounds.
Schemling SD.
Foreman vs Johnson.
Johnson comes right for Big George....After a destructive 5 rounds (with both men falling), the referee has to stoip the fight. Foreman wins by referee stopage.
Tunney vs Charles.
Charles is deadly, quick-footed, quick-witted and quick-fisted. Chares wins by UD.
Holmes vs Patterson.
Patterson's quick enough to last the pace, but Holmes always had the upper hand. Holmes wins by UD.
Marciano vs Bowe.
Marciano wins by KO round 12.
Dempsey vs Liston.
Liston knocks Dempsey down in the early rounds...But becomes disillusoined as Dempsey's heart surges him forward. Dempsey wins by KO round 11.
Louis vs Holyfield.
Joe Louis wins UD.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
I noticed this before but didn't reply but...frazier ko ali R10
Lewis TKO Schmeling R5
Foreman KO Johnson R7
Tunney vs Charles (Tunney DQ for headbutts)
Holmes KO Patterson R6
Bowe KO Marciano R11
Liston KO Dempsey R9
Holyfield vs Louis (draw)
WTF are you thinking???
How can you sincerly invision Bowe knocking out Marciano? I can maybe see a logic in Bowe winning a decision, but god damn man 
I also notice the Ali-Frazier scores...very interesting...4-4 so far. Very hard call to make, you can really make the case for either man on that one. But for my money, Frazier would have taken it to Ali, though be very very close.
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
Ali UD12 Frazier (had this been a one-off, prime for prime, I would favour Frazier, but Frazier has already been through three wars this year and I think a fourth is one too many)
Lewis TKO5 Schmeling
Johnson UD12 Foreman
Charles SD12 Tunney
Holmes TKO9 Patterson
Bowe SD12 Marciano
Liston KO8 Dempsey
Louis TKO10 Holyfield
Lewis TKO5 Schmeling
Johnson UD12 Foreman
Charles SD12 Tunney
Holmes TKO9 Patterson
Bowe SD12 Marciano
Liston KO8 Dempsey
Louis TKO10 Holyfield
Frazier UD12 Ali
Lewis UD 12 Schemling
Foreman KO 7 Johnson
Charles UD 12 Tunney
Holmes TKO 9 Patterson
Marciano KO 11 Bowe
Liston TKO 10 Dempsey
Louis UD 12 Holyfield
Lewis UD 12 Schemling
Foreman KO 7 Johnson
Charles UD 12 Tunney
Holmes TKO 9 Patterson
Marciano KO 11 Bowe
Liston TKO 10 Dempsey
Louis UD 12 Holyfield
Last edited by Minotauro on 29 May 2007, 05:36, edited 1 time in total.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
Yes, the bout would count as a draw. In that case Ali would progress to the next round due to his higher standing in the group phase. If Frazier wins, Ali is out of the tournament, before the quarter finals! I agree that a draw would be a very fitting result.hmm...5-5 on the Ali-Frazier fight. If the bout is still a tie when the votes get tallied, does that mean they will have a draw? I think a draw, if anything, would be most fitting between these two men in a fourth bout.
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
RESULTS FROM 7 JULY 2008:
Ali SD12 Frazier
These two warriors returned to the ring for the fourth time. Interestingly, the prime Joe Frazier was plucked from the past from just after his victory in the first Ali fight, so he had no recollection of his two losses (he also has refused to watch them on tape). The prime Ali was taken from between the second and third Frazier fights, so had no recollection of the horrors of the Thrilla in Manilla.
Frazier started the fight confidently, frequently catching Ali with his left hook, and bullying him around the ring. Ali continually landed his jab and lead rights, but Frazier simply walked through the majority. In the middle rounds Ali began to take over, landing vastly more punches, swelling up Frazier's face. Frazier was tiring, and Ali seemingly cruising to a decision victory, when Frazier landed and crunching left hook, reminicent of that in their first fight. Ali was up at the count of 7. The final round was a beauty, with both fighters letting their hands go, landing and recieving plenty of leather. The bell rang to a standing ovation that lasted for several minutes. Scorecards read 114:113 Frazier, 114:113 Ali, and 115:112 Ali.
Lewis TKO7 Schmeling
Lewis paved his way to the quarter finals with an impressive stoppage victory. Schmeling took the first round through greater activity, Lewis the second, using his reach effectively. Lewis was easily winning the third when Schmeling landed a counter right to Lewis's mouth, sending him backing into the ropes, clearly shaken. After that Lewis was far more cautious, swelling up Schmeling's face with his jab and straight rights. By round seven it looked as though Lewis was content to cruise to a decision, when he caught Schmeling with a short left hook to the jaw, followed by a haymaker right hook to the jaw, sending Schmeling spinning to the canvas. Schmeling was up at the count of 8, but clearly on unsteady legs, as the referee stopped the fight.
Foreman D12 Johnson
George Foreman advanced to the quarter finals by drawing his fight against Jack Johnson, due to a higher group placing. Johnson was outboxing Foreman for the first two rounds, but was knocked down by a big overhand right in the third. Foreman probably won the next three rounds through greater activity, but Johnson fought back to be clearly in control of the fight. By the 12th round it seemed that Johnson must be in front, and he had Foreman hurt, landing frequently to the head. But Foreman rallied like a champion, bullying Johnson into a corner and knocking him down in the dying seconds with two big uppercuts. Johnson rose at 8, only for the bell to ring. Scorecards read 114:113 Johnson, 115:111 Foreman and 113:113.
Charles SD12 Tunney
With both fighters weighing in just under 200lb, these men served as a lesson to the bloated heavyweights of today. Both fought with tremendous skill throughout the 12 rounds, throwing, receiving and evading a lot of punches. Neither fighter visited the canvas, but both were hurt at various stages. When the final bell rang it was unclear who was the victor; Charles was badly cut, Tunney looked much fresher, but Charles had been the more active throughout the fight. Scorecards read 115:113 Tunney and 115:113 twice to Charles.
Holmes TKO9 Patterson
While Patterson made this fight interesting at times, and certainly took a few of the middle rounds, there was little doubt who was going to win this fight. Holmes dominated with his jab, and knocked Patterson down in the 3rd. Patterson landed a punishing combination that had Holmes on wobbly legs in the 6th round, and won the 7th with greater aggression. Holmes was back on top in the 8th, and sent Patterson back to the canvas with a quick combination early in the 9th. Holmes was then all over Patterson, the referee stopping the fight to prevent Patterson taking any further punishment.
Marciano KO9 Bowe
This was a highly entertaining bout between two fighters with far better offensive than defensive ability. Bowe had a massive height, reach and weight advantage, but it was Marciano who won the first round. After that Bowe began to take over, punishing Marciano from the inside and outside, leaving his face swollen and cut. Bowe continued to take punishment, but was clearly dishing out more than he was taking. By the start of the 9th round, the referee told Marciano's corner that he would stop the fight if the cuts over Rocky's eyes got any worse. This was all the motivation needed, as Rocky landed a crunching right hand to the jaw of the bigger man, sending him crashing to the canvas. Bowe was up at 6 on wobbly legs, but Rocky showed impressive finishing ability, landing several powerful shots to the head and body of Bowe, sending him back to the canvas, not to rise for a minute.
Liston KO9 Dempsey
In this highly attractive matchup, Sonny Liston outboxed then disposed of Jack Dempsey in nine rounds. Dempsey had his moments and won two or three rounds, landing powerful combinations from time to time, but Liston was the more consistent, his jab making the difference in most rounds. Liston knocked Dempsey down early in the ninth with a left hook-straight right. Dempsey was up, seemingly fine, when Liston followed up with a straight right that sent Dempsey through the ropes and out of the ring.
Louis UD12 Holyfield
A brave Evander Holyfield got up from the canvas to make it to make the distance against an impressive Joe Louis. While comparable in size, it was clear from the outset that Louis possessed greater power, accuracy and a higher workrate than Holyfield. Louis was shaken a couple of times in the fight, but never looked in real danger. A sharp combination, finishing with a short right hand sent Holyfield to the canvas in the 11th, but he got up and rallied in a close 12th round, although there was no doubt who had won the fight. Scorecards read 116:111 twice and 117:110, all to Louis.
Next round of fights:
QUARTER FINALS
8 September 2008
Ali vs Lewis
Foreman vs Charles
Holmes vs Marciano
Liston vs Louis
All fighters fought 9 weeks ago, results as above.
Ali SD12 Frazier
These two warriors returned to the ring for the fourth time. Interestingly, the prime Joe Frazier was plucked from the past from just after his victory in the first Ali fight, so he had no recollection of his two losses (he also has refused to watch them on tape). The prime Ali was taken from between the second and third Frazier fights, so had no recollection of the horrors of the Thrilla in Manilla.
Frazier started the fight confidently, frequently catching Ali with his left hook, and bullying him around the ring. Ali continually landed his jab and lead rights, but Frazier simply walked through the majority. In the middle rounds Ali began to take over, landing vastly more punches, swelling up Frazier's face. Frazier was tiring, and Ali seemingly cruising to a decision victory, when Frazier landed and crunching left hook, reminicent of that in their first fight. Ali was up at the count of 7. The final round was a beauty, with both fighters letting their hands go, landing and recieving plenty of leather. The bell rang to a standing ovation that lasted for several minutes. Scorecards read 114:113 Frazier, 114:113 Ali, and 115:112 Ali.
Lewis TKO7 Schmeling
Lewis paved his way to the quarter finals with an impressive stoppage victory. Schmeling took the first round through greater activity, Lewis the second, using his reach effectively. Lewis was easily winning the third when Schmeling landed a counter right to Lewis's mouth, sending him backing into the ropes, clearly shaken. After that Lewis was far more cautious, swelling up Schmeling's face with his jab and straight rights. By round seven it looked as though Lewis was content to cruise to a decision, when he caught Schmeling with a short left hook to the jaw, followed by a haymaker right hook to the jaw, sending Schmeling spinning to the canvas. Schmeling was up at the count of 8, but clearly on unsteady legs, as the referee stopped the fight.
Foreman D12 Johnson
George Foreman advanced to the quarter finals by drawing his fight against Jack Johnson, due to a higher group placing. Johnson was outboxing Foreman for the first two rounds, but was knocked down by a big overhand right in the third. Foreman probably won the next three rounds through greater activity, but Johnson fought back to be clearly in control of the fight. By the 12th round it seemed that Johnson must be in front, and he had Foreman hurt, landing frequently to the head. But Foreman rallied like a champion, bullying Johnson into a corner and knocking him down in the dying seconds with two big uppercuts. Johnson rose at 8, only for the bell to ring. Scorecards read 114:113 Johnson, 115:111 Foreman and 113:113.
Charles SD12 Tunney
With both fighters weighing in just under 200lb, these men served as a lesson to the bloated heavyweights of today. Both fought with tremendous skill throughout the 12 rounds, throwing, receiving and evading a lot of punches. Neither fighter visited the canvas, but both were hurt at various stages. When the final bell rang it was unclear who was the victor; Charles was badly cut, Tunney looked much fresher, but Charles had been the more active throughout the fight. Scorecards read 115:113 Tunney and 115:113 twice to Charles.
Holmes TKO9 Patterson
While Patterson made this fight interesting at times, and certainly took a few of the middle rounds, there was little doubt who was going to win this fight. Holmes dominated with his jab, and knocked Patterson down in the 3rd. Patterson landed a punishing combination that had Holmes on wobbly legs in the 6th round, and won the 7th with greater aggression. Holmes was back on top in the 8th, and sent Patterson back to the canvas with a quick combination early in the 9th. Holmes was then all over Patterson, the referee stopping the fight to prevent Patterson taking any further punishment.
Marciano KO9 Bowe
This was a highly entertaining bout between two fighters with far better offensive than defensive ability. Bowe had a massive height, reach and weight advantage, but it was Marciano who won the first round. After that Bowe began to take over, punishing Marciano from the inside and outside, leaving his face swollen and cut. Bowe continued to take punishment, but was clearly dishing out more than he was taking. By the start of the 9th round, the referee told Marciano's corner that he would stop the fight if the cuts over Rocky's eyes got any worse. This was all the motivation needed, as Rocky landed a crunching right hand to the jaw of the bigger man, sending him crashing to the canvas. Bowe was up at 6 on wobbly legs, but Rocky showed impressive finishing ability, landing several powerful shots to the head and body of Bowe, sending him back to the canvas, not to rise for a minute.
Liston KO9 Dempsey
In this highly attractive matchup, Sonny Liston outboxed then disposed of Jack Dempsey in nine rounds. Dempsey had his moments and won two or three rounds, landing powerful combinations from time to time, but Liston was the more consistent, his jab making the difference in most rounds. Liston knocked Dempsey down early in the ninth with a left hook-straight right. Dempsey was up, seemingly fine, when Liston followed up with a straight right that sent Dempsey through the ropes and out of the ring.
Louis UD12 Holyfield
A brave Evander Holyfield got up from the canvas to make it to make the distance against an impressive Joe Louis. While comparable in size, it was clear from the outset that Louis possessed greater power, accuracy and a higher workrate than Holyfield. Louis was shaken a couple of times in the fight, but never looked in real danger. A sharp combination, finishing with a short right hand sent Holyfield to the canvas in the 11th, but he got up and rallied in a close 12th round, although there was no doubt who had won the fight. Scorecards read 116:111 twice and 117:110, all to Louis.
Next round of fights:
QUARTER FINALS
8 September 2008
Ali vs Lewis
Foreman vs Charles
Holmes vs Marciano
Liston vs Louis
All fighters fought 9 weeks ago, results as above.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Ali W12 Lewis- be somewhat difficult for Ali as Lewis does have a longer reach, and moves quite well for a much bigger man. But Ali throws combinations much faster, is far more elusive. The fight isn't a barn burner, but certainly much better than any of the more recent HW title fights.
Foreman TKO 6th Charles- Charles, despite his skills, just couldn't keep away from the crushing right hand of Foreman. Foreman threw it alot and landed often, dropping Charles three times between rounds 1-5. Just too strong for the former LHW turn HW champion. Charles doesn't come out for the 7th round.
Liston KO 10th Louis- The great Joe Louis was dropped twice by Sonny and it was all he needed. For the first few rounds, both men were rather cautious, but it was Liston's jab that was winning those rounds for him. Louis begins to engage and lands two-three-four punch combinations that have Liston in trouble, but Liston comes back with a pulverising right that makes Louis' legs wobble. Louis is able to shake it off and survive the round, and doesn't try and press Liston---rather trying to box him, but Liston is landing more and more often. In the 10th, Louis tries to measure Liston with a jab and tries to follow it up with a straight right hand, but Liston counters and Louis goes down for the count, all but comatose.
Marciano vs Holmes...
Very intriguing considering Holmes was 48-0 and before his fight with Michael Spinks says in a rage "Marciano couldn't carry my jock strap!" and out of the blue loses the title and ends his seven year reign. Holmes' jab I consider better than Ali's, but I don't think Holmes was quite as tough as Muhammad. Was a great boxer, but was by no means fast, and while he has kayo victories, he lacked a killer attitude in alot of his fights.
Both Holmes and Marciano came unfortunately in eras that were not as good as, let's say the era of Frazier, Foreman, Norton and Ali, but both men were dominate (Holmes with his 20 defenses, Marciano going undefeated as champion at 49-0 and being champion five years with six defenses).
The only thing that makes me wonder if Holmes could beat Marciano easily is that, Marciano could have beaten the very same men that Holmes did just as good as he did. I cant see the Scott Franks, Tex Cobbs and Marvis Fraziers of the world beating Marciano. Was Holmes really so great or was it that he fought in the worst era in history for heavyweights?
You can make the argument...myself I think had Marciano been around the same time as Holmes, he very well could have had the 20 defenses and am sure he would have been more willing than Holmes to unify the titles and be called an undisputed champion.
Nonetheless this is quite the tough call to make. Holmes knew how to climb off the floor to win (like he done against Shavers) and Marciano never stopped throwing punches and coming in. Not since Tyson, would Holmes have fought such a formidable opponent [yes I know Holmes was over the hill, but even I can see a prime Holmes having great problems with Tyson].
I see Marciano winning a 12 round split decision, after managing to drop Holmes in the later rounds.
Foreman TKO 6th Charles- Charles, despite his skills, just couldn't keep away from the crushing right hand of Foreman. Foreman threw it alot and landed often, dropping Charles three times between rounds 1-5. Just too strong for the former LHW turn HW champion. Charles doesn't come out for the 7th round.
Liston KO 10th Louis- The great Joe Louis was dropped twice by Sonny and it was all he needed. For the first few rounds, both men were rather cautious, but it was Liston's jab that was winning those rounds for him. Louis begins to engage and lands two-three-four punch combinations that have Liston in trouble, but Liston comes back with a pulverising right that makes Louis' legs wobble. Louis is able to shake it off and survive the round, and doesn't try and press Liston---rather trying to box him, but Liston is landing more and more often. In the 10th, Louis tries to measure Liston with a jab and tries to follow it up with a straight right hand, but Liston counters and Louis goes down for the count, all but comatose.
Marciano vs Holmes...
Very intriguing considering Holmes was 48-0 and before his fight with Michael Spinks says in a rage "Marciano couldn't carry my jock strap!" and out of the blue loses the title and ends his seven year reign. Holmes' jab I consider better than Ali's, but I don't think Holmes was quite as tough as Muhammad. Was a great boxer, but was by no means fast, and while he has kayo victories, he lacked a killer attitude in alot of his fights.
Both Holmes and Marciano came unfortunately in eras that were not as good as, let's say the era of Frazier, Foreman, Norton and Ali, but both men were dominate (Holmes with his 20 defenses, Marciano going undefeated as champion at 49-0 and being champion five years with six defenses).
The only thing that makes me wonder if Holmes could beat Marciano easily is that, Marciano could have beaten the very same men that Holmes did just as good as he did. I cant see the Scott Franks, Tex Cobbs and Marvis Fraziers of the world beating Marciano. Was Holmes really so great or was it that he fought in the worst era in history for heavyweights?
You can make the argument...myself I think had Marciano been around the same time as Holmes, he very well could have had the 20 defenses and am sure he would have been more willing than Holmes to unify the titles and be called an undisputed champion.
Nonetheless this is quite the tough call to make. Holmes knew how to climb off the floor to win (like he done against Shavers) and Marciano never stopped throwing punches and coming in. Not since Tyson, would Holmes have fought such a formidable opponent [yes I know Holmes was over the hill, but even I can see a prime Holmes having great problems with Tyson].
I see Marciano winning a 12 round split decision, after managing to drop Holmes in the later rounds.
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I Feel Fine
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2097
- Joined: 10 Apr 2007, 16:48
Ali dec. Lewis... Lewis has the size advantage, but Ali at 6'3" with an 80" reach has the length of a Frank Bruno (not as heavy as Bruno, but does have a much better chin) and can touch Lewis more than his other opponents have been able to. The jabbing contest is one of the best in Heavyweight history. Ali has the best jab Lewis has ever encountered, and vice versa. The difference is really Ali's speed, his movement and hand speed give him a slight edge. Lewis has difficulty landing the big right hand, and is stunned at one point in the fight. Close fight, Ali wins a close decision.
Foreman KO 7... Charles' boxing ability allows him to survive into rounds that many others haven't made it to, but Foreman is too big and strong, and has too much power for Charles.
Holmes uses his boxing skills and jab to out box Marciano. Marciano
makes some rounds very close, and gives Holmes lots of troubles. Holmes hurt by the right hand two or three times, but manages to survive. Holmes wins by UD
Liston uses his size, power and longer jab to give Louis lots of problems. Louis' accuracy allows him to land many bombs on Liston. Both men hurt several times in the fight, with Louis down once in the early rounds. Both men are two of the biggest punchers of all time and want knock outs, but both have difficulty as their opponent also has a big punch and a solid chin. The jabbing match up is close, with Liston having the edge because of his reach. Liston lands some solid shots, making Louis fight somewhat cautiously. But Liston is open for counter right hands by Louis that Sonny doesn't see coming, and Sonny takes a lot of damage in this fight. Liston also has trouble with Louis' combinations. Liston wins a majority of the early rounds, they split the middle rounds, and Louis has slight edge in the later rounds. The judges announce a close decision for Liston based on the knock down. Many believe Louis should have gotten the decision. Liston's face has seen better days.
Foreman KO 7... Charles' boxing ability allows him to survive into rounds that many others haven't made it to, but Foreman is too big and strong, and has too much power for Charles.
Holmes uses his boxing skills and jab to out box Marciano. Marciano
makes some rounds very close, and gives Holmes lots of troubles. Holmes hurt by the right hand two or three times, but manages to survive. Holmes wins by UD
Liston uses his size, power and longer jab to give Louis lots of problems. Louis' accuracy allows him to land many bombs on Liston. Both men hurt several times in the fight, with Louis down once in the early rounds. Both men are two of the biggest punchers of all time and want knock outs, but both have difficulty as their opponent also has a big punch and a solid chin. The jabbing match up is close, with Liston having the edge because of his reach. Liston lands some solid shots, making Louis fight somewhat cautiously. But Liston is open for counter right hands by Louis that Sonny doesn't see coming, and Sonny takes a lot of damage in this fight. Liston also has trouble with Louis' combinations. Liston wins a majority of the early rounds, they split the middle rounds, and Louis has slight edge in the later rounds. The judges announce a close decision for Liston based on the knock down. Many believe Louis should have gotten the decision. Liston's face has seen better days.
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11