U.S. Championships

emile · Post by **emile** » 05 Jun 2007, 09:49

Dargan was quoted in an AP story as saying that he wasn't in his best shape, and it apparently showed in the fight.

No doubt that a handful of the US Qualifiers are going to be in for a rude surprise in Chicago at the World's. We'll just have to hope that they learn something and come back strong for Beijing.

It does seem like the selection process for international tournaments has not paid off. A number of fighters who have not progressed in this round of competition have a fair amount of intl experience, and a bunch of the up and comers have no experience at all. Do you think USA Boxing needs to do a better job of identifying talent? Is this a consistent problem?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Jun 2007, 11:21

I am really disappointed that Dargan didn't come to the Championships "in the best shape." Maybe burnout.....definitely lack of focus. Not like Dargan.

Emile, I think the lack of international competitions (due to lack of money) this past year has really hurt our athletes. Usually the boxers are selected for dual meets and tournaments based on the current rankings, so at least the top 5, and sometimes more, are given an opportunity. I think our selection process (rankings) are fair and do identify the best. But, as I have said before, the best in the U.S. doesn't always equate to the best anywhere else.

I think the World Championships will expose any weakness our boxers have and I doubt that can be turned around in time for the Olympics. I think USAB needs to get its act together and put the athletes first - something that hasn't happened in many years.

ARamos3 · Post by **ARamos3** » 05 Jun 2007, 13:43

It's just good coaching. These top amateurs are exposed throughout the years prior to the olympics and unless you're superior you'll have some major upsets at the trials each time.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Jun 2007, 14:12

Hi Art - yes, good coaching is definitely a foundation that builds a good athlete. But I still say that the lack of international competition this past year has hurt the athletes. Javier Molina has no international experience, nor does Rico Ramos, or any of the boxers coming out of the JOs who are in the Championships quarterfinals, or most of the other boxers who have made it to the quarters.

Just my opinion of course.

ARamos3 · Post by **ARamos3** » 05 Jun 2007, 14:30

Like I've stated before these JO boxers are beating the older boxers cause of their training. Most of the JO Boxers still live at home or don't have to make a living and provide for a family. Alot of these older guys have families to support which I'm sure effects their training. Then you also have the "burning out" factor. Either way, it's starting to show more and more that Amateur boxing is a young mans sport.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Jun 2007, 14:50

Art, I totally agree with everything you've said. However, I still firmly believe that the best the US has to offer, young or not, won't do much on the international scene unless they get international experience.

I do have to say I fully expected to see Dargan and Hector in the finals. Oh well.

emile · Post by **emile** » 05 Jun 2007, 17:37

June 5 - Afternoon Men's Quarterfinal and Women's Semifinal Bouts

101 lbs/Female: Sadie Roberts, Hudson, Iowa, dec. Adri Harding, San Diego, Calif., 19-12
106 lbs/48 kg: Daniel Lozano, Bowling Green, Fla., dec. Roberto Ceron, Doraville, Ga., 14-10
106 lbs/48 kg: Keola McKee, Waailuku, Hawaii., dec. Malcom Franklin, Pomona, Calif., 24-18
106 lbs/48 kg: Diego Hurtado, Reno, Nev., dec. Gabino Saenz, Indio, Calif., 9-8
106 lbs/48 kg: Luis Yanez, Duncanville, Texas, dec. Jerail Singleton, St. Louis, Mo., 23-11
110 lbs/Female: Sky Bell, Moclips, Wash., dec. Rochelle Gilken, Philadelphia, Pa., 24-6
110 lbs/Female: Cheryl Houlihan, Norton, Mass., stopped Khara Keegan, Ariz., RSCO-2 (1:15)
119 lbs/Female: Christina Cruz, New York, N.Y., dec. Adelaid Ruiz, Lynwood, Calif., 12-11
119 lbs/Female: Teresa O'Toole, Northridge, Calif., dec. Magdalene Kearse, Atlanta, Ga., 23-5
119 lbs/54 kg: Gary Russell, Jr., Capitol Heights, Md., dec. Jessy Cruz, Miami, Fla., 37-14
119 lbs/54 kg: Ronny Rios, Santa Ana, Calif., dec. Roberto Marroquin, Dallas, Texas, 18-13
119 lbs/54 kg: Sammy DiPace, Las Cruses, N.M., dec. Sergio Perales, Los Fresnos, Texas, 20-8
119 lbs/54 kg: David Clark, San Diego, Calif., dec. Alexis Ramos, Ft. Carson, Colo., 14-10
132 lbs/60 kg: Terence Crawford, Omaha, Neb., dec. Miguel Gonzalez, Cleveland, Ohio, 25-24
132 lbs/60 kg: Jerry Belemontes, Corpus Christi, Texas, dec. Sadam Ali, New York, N.Y., 13-12
132 lbs/60 kg: Diego Magdaleno, Las Vegas, Nev., stopped James Villa, Ft. Carson, Colo., RSCO-2 (1:13)
132 lbs/60 kg: Mason Menard, Rayne, La., dec. Antton Slaughter, Columbus, Ohio, 16-16 (39-41)
132 lbs/Female: Caroline Barry, Colorado Springs, Colo., dec. Katy Klinefelter, Iowas City, Iowa, 20-10
132 lbs/Female: Maimunah Holland, South Nyack, N.Y., dec. Althea Martin, Atlantic City, N.J., 41-25
145 lbs/Female: Lisa Kuronya, Portland, Maine, dec. Nicole Woods, Stone Mountain, Ga., 32-20
145 lbs/Female: Brittany Inkrote, Red Lion, Pa., stopped Tiffany Buchholz, Monros, Wisc., RSCO-3 (:27)
152 lbs/69 kg: Mahlon Kerwick, Fort Carson, Colo., dec. Boyd Melson, Ft. Carson, Colo., 11-5
152 lbs/69 kg: Demetrius Andre, Providence, R.I., dec. Dominique Dolton, Detroit, Mich., 27-13
152 lbs/69 kg: Keith Thurman, St. Petersburg, Fla., dec. Anthony Campbell, Covington, Tenn., 16-7
152 lbs/69 kg: Charles Hatley, Dallas, Texas, stopped David Lopez, Parma, Idaho, RSCO-2 (:38)
165 lbs/Female: Franchon Crews, Baltimore, Md. stopped Jenniger Egan, Mahopac, N.Y., RSC-1 (:52)
178 lbs/ 81 kg: Christopher Downs, Ft. Carson, Colo., stopped, Jeffrey Spencer, Ft. Carson, Colo., RET-3 (1:02)
178 lbs/81 kg: Yathomas Riley, San Diego, Calif., dec. DeRae Crane, Davenport Iowa, 18-12
178 lbs/81 kg: Cymone Kearney, Oakland, Calif., stopped Nicholas Swan, Great Falls, Mont., RSC-1 (:51)
178 lbs/81 kg: Siju Shabazz, Las Cruces, N.M., dec. Angel Concepcion, East Orange, N.J., 27-26
201+ lbs/91+ : Michael Hunter, Las Vegas, Nev., stopped, Josh Parsons, Barbousville, W.V., RSC-2 (:32)
201+/91+ kg: Mike Wilson, Central Point, Ore., dec. nate James, Malden, Mass., 12-7
201+/91+ kg: William Moore, Ft. Carson, Colo., dec. Kindo Bethel, Albany, N.Y., 12-12 (26-26) (5-0)
201+/91+ kg: Lenroy Thompson, Port St. Lucie, dec. Andrew Shepherd, Ft. Carson, Colo., 19-12

emile · Post by **emile** » 05 Jun 2007, 18:44

These results make me even more confident about my earlier suggestion that the Armed Forces winner should not be getting a bye into the Trials. It seems reasonable that that would guarantee them a place at the US Championships, but it is completely obvious that that title is nowhere near as difficult to win as the PAL or GGs. Every single winner, except for Chris Downs, was beaten this morning. By selectively seeding them, they are making it harder for some of the best boxers to make it to the Trials.

Dennis pointed out that some of the Trials boxers were going to be weaker than some of those left home. Case in point, Nicholas Swan of Great Falls, MT - who benefitted from Bear Richardson not making weight and beat a fighter from Seattle. Today he was pounded by Cymone Kearney, and he's so low profile I couldn't find a single article about him in his hometown paper, which is hardly the New York Times. I wish him luck and congratulate him on his success, but he looks to be in for a double pounding at the Trials.

And Charles Hatley is beating people with extreme prejudice - will this be the tourney that he breaks through? 152 is looking very solid to me.

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boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Jun 2007, 18:46

And then there's the NMU at large team.

emile · Post by **emile** » 05 Jun 2007, 18:51

NMU did get five boxers into the Trials, so that's not too bad - but you'd think they'd do better. You have to admire a guy like Escalante though, who went from living in Hawaii to studying collision repair in the Upper Peninsula :) (McKee too)

So what do the winners of the US Championships earn exactly? Do they get a seed at the Trials? I assume that the winners of the Box-offs will go to the Worlds.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:06

zhdamistro wrote:hey dennis how did dominic wade look against edwin rodriguez. do you think he has a shot against fernando guerrero? i know he beat him in the Golden gloves but heard it was disputed.

I didn't see the bout as I was getting Jordan ready for his bout. I did see Guerrero and he looked very good. I think Fernando will win, but I've been wrong before.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:17

Said Emile,

So what do the winners of the US Championships earn exactly? Do they get a seed at the Trials? I assume that the winners of the Box-offs will go to the Worlds.

Winners of the Championships get to be gold medalists.

There is no seeding in the Trials. Our Olympic team will be the participants at the Worlds.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:23

boxmel wrote:Dennis,
had Mike winning by 10 points (16-6). I try to count only punches that I believe at least 3 of the judges, if not all of them, would have seen.
Did you run around the ring to catch all five judges points of view? How do you know which three judges pushed the button for which boxer?

I'm truly sorry Dargan lost. Will be interesting to see how he does in the Pan Ams. Javier's coach told me several months ago that Javi could be Dargan. And he was right. I'm concerned that Javier has no international experience. Our best, who make up our Olympic Team, may do nothing in Beijing.

Mel - I sure did. I'm fast and catch all points of view at once! There are clear punches that land that a judge would have to be blind not to see from any angle. I said I TRY to score only those that I BELIEVE at LEAST 3 judges would be able to see clearly. I really thought Mike won by more than 4 points.

FYI - ring 3 broke twice yesterday. During the 4th round of the last super-heavy bout (last bout of the noon session) the 3rd rope broke and they had to move everyone to the middle ring (#2) since that ring was finished with its bouts. Then in the beginning of the 9th bout, Jordan and Quantis were standing in the ring waiting to be announced when the top rope broke. Both boxers had to sit down on stools and wait for 5-10 minutes before it was determined that it could not be fixed at that time. The had to get out of the ring and wait for another 2 bouts to be contested in ring 2 and then they were moved to ring 2. Ring 3 had also had some computer problems on Sunday afternoon and Sunday evening. Ring 1 also had computer problems during the Sunday noon session.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:26

boxmel wrote:I'm truly sorry Dargan lost. Will be interesting to see how he does in the Pan Ams. Javier's coach told me several months ago that Javi could be Dargan. And he was right. I'm concerned that Javier has no international experience. Our best, who make up our Olympic Team, may do nothing in Beijing.

Mel - don't underestimate our guys. I think a few could do OK in the Olympics. The hardest thing is to get fair judging when people from many, many countries do not like the U.S. and its athletes.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:29

boxmel wrote:I can only speculate on Dargan's loss to Mike Dallas at the 2006 PAL and his recent loss to Molina. I didn't see either bouts, although yesterday's was close, per the report on USAB web site.

We need to give our top boxers meaningful international competition - often. The team will be picked in August and then prepare for the Worlds in October. After that are the two Americas qualifiers, if needed. Most of our boxers will be unprepared for the biggest international competitions in the world - the World Championships and the Olympics.

Mel - what do you propose? I would like to see more boxers getting international experience, but USAB does not seem to have the funding to send more boxers overseas or host more international competitions.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:31

Equipment breaking is inexcusable. I can't remember that happening in all the years I've worked the Championships.

The computers are another story - they are all old and breaking down. Yeah, I'm seeing the number of bouts that are going to paper scoring. I did my best last year to drum up interest by the powers that be so they would get a decent system before the qualifiers. No such luck. It would be really nice if they started putting the athletes first, wouldn't it! The Brazilian system is inexpensive, user-friendly, and good. We could have had this all in place last year.

I honestly have no clue why the numbero of points means so much! A win is a win no matter what.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:35

Emile - I believe Raynell Williams is 18. He boxed in the 2004 J.O. tourney. He should have boxed in the '05 tourney but entered the GG at 16 and was then disqualified at the National Golden Gloves because he was too young. Sergio Perales' people knew Raynell was too young since they had boxed each other in the '04 J.O. finals. They were scheduled to box at the '05 Nat'l GG in a preliminary round and then Perales won by disqualification.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:37

Yes, unfair officiating at the major international tournaments can be a problem, but it isn't the only problem. Our boxers don't know what to expect internationally - the refereeing is different; the boxer's styles are different that what they are used to. They need experience.

If USAB would stop focusing inward and exacerbating its egos, and focus on the athletes - we are here because of the athletes, aren't we? USOC money is used for international trips, except we almost lost that last year until the governance reform was mandated. Our athletes lost an entire year of experience thanks to the bickering of the adults. Grrrrrrr.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:48

boxmel wrote:Said Emile,
So what do the winners of the US Championships earn exactly? Do they get a seed at the Trials? I assume that the winners of the Box-offs will go to the Worlds.

Winners of the Championships get to be gold medalists. There is no seeding in the Trials. Our Olympic team will be the participants at the Worlds.

Mel - we were told that there would be seeding at the trials. The top 4 from the US Championships will be seeded in separate parts of the bracket.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 05 Jun 2007, 19:55

Emile - I agree with you about the Armed Services champions. I figured Downs would win and I thought Boyd Melson might too. That was about it. Melson got beat by another Army guy. Lets go back to the old way with a few modifications. A boxer should have to win a national Qualifier that is open to all boxers. Lets go with US Championships (1st and 2nd place), Nat'l GG, Nat'l PAL, Eastern Trials, Midwestern Trials, Western Trials and perhaps one at large boxer in each weight class. That would be 8 top boxers.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Jun 2007, 20:45

Dennis - couldn't remember about the top 4 from the Championships being seeded at the Trials - probably should have said that to start with.

I was somewhat surprised that Boyd lost. Mahlon Kerwick boxed for the Army some years ago, and then got out. Interesting to see he is back in again. I look forward to seeing him at the Trials.

holeymoley99 · Post by **holeymoley99** » 05 Jun 2007, 21:27

I thought Melson would beat Kerwick but Mahlon has been around forever (2000 Olympic trials,came up 1 bout short of the 2004 trials). I expect Boyd to bounce back strong but the weight class is pretty loaded with talent.

emile · Post by **emile** » 05 Jun 2007, 22:40

June 5 - Evening Men's Quarterfinal and Women's Semifinal Bouts

106 lbs/Female: Marlene Esparza, Houston, Texas, won on walkover over Victoria Romero, Colorado, W/O
112 lbs/51 kg: Timothy Ibarra, Brighton, Colo., won on retirement over Qa'id Muhammad, Atlantic City, N.J., RET-1 (:03)
112 lbs/51 kg: Bruno Escalante, Waimanalo, Hawaii, dec. Vincent Montoya, Cheyenne, Wy., 19-11
112 lbs/51 kg: Aaron Alafa, Visalia, Calif., dec. Juan Leija, Alvin, Texas, 32-14
112 lbs/51 kg: John Franklin, Ft. Carson, Colo., dec. David Gaspar, Wilmington, Calif., 14-13
114 lbs/Female: Sacred Downing, Trenton, N.J., dec. Tyreisha Douglas, Washington, DC, 22-11
114 lbs/Female: Johanna Mendez, Houston, Texas, dec. Isabel Salinas, San Leandro, Calif., 37-17
125 lbs/Female: Ana Julaton, San Francisco, Calif., dec. Quadriyyah Marshall, Newark, N.J., 11-8
125 lbs/57 kg: Hylon Williams, Houston, Texas, dec. Duran Caffero, Helena, Mont., 19-14
125 lbs/57 kg: Raynell Williams, Cleveland, Ohio, dec. Troy Wohosky, Medford, Ore., 25-3
125 lbs/57 kg: Shemuel Pagan, Brooklyn, N.Y., dec. Robert Rodriguez, Evans, Colo., 35-30
125 lbs/57 kg: Rico Ramos, Los Angeles, Calif., stopped Rosey Summerville, San Antonio, Texas, RSCH-2 (:16)
125 lbs/Female: Stephanie Eggink, Washington, dec. Jennifer Han, El Paso, Texas, 23-18
138 lbs/Female: Queen Underwood, Federal Way, stopped Ishika Lay, Atlantic Beach, Fla., RSC-2 (1:38)
138 lbs/Female: Christina Reddick, Oklahoma, dec. Christina Swanson, Daina, Fla., 27-24
141 lbs/64 kg: Danny Garcia, Philadelphia, Pa., dec. Andre Sherard, Milwaukee, Wisc., 18-13
141 lbs/64 kg: Dan O'Connor, Framingham, Mass., dec. Michael Dallas, Bakersfield, Calif., 14-8
141 lbs/64 kg: Brad Solomon, Douglasville, Ga., dec Samuel Martinez, Jacksonville, N.C., 23-6
142 lbs/64 kg: Javier Molina, Commerce, Calif., dec. Jermey Bryan, Clifton, N.J., 19-12
154 lbs/Female: Jackie Davis, Willinboro, N.J., dec. Margaret Morgan, Manchester, N.H., 29-5
165 lbs/75 kg: Shawn Estrada, Downey, Calif., stopped Angel Santos, Newark, N.J., RCO-3 (1:46)
165 lbs/75 kg: Fernando Guerero, Salisbury, Md., won on medical disqualification over Dominic Wade, Largo, Md., DQ
165 lbs/75 kg: Jonathon Nelson, Little Rock, Ark., dec. Zachaeus Hardwick, Ft. Carson, Colo., RSC-1 (1:07)
165 lbs/75 kg: Shawn Porter, Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, dec. Daniel Jacobs, Brooklyn, N.Y., 26-16
176 lbs/Female: Jaclyn Nichols, Peshtigo, Wisc., dec. Angela Sperry, Helena, Mont., 21-8
176 lbs/Female: Tyler Lord Wilder, E. Lansing, Mich., won on disqualification over Chatiqua Hemmingway, Pittsburgh, Pa., DQ-4 (:42)
201 lbs/91 kg: Adam Willett, Belport, N.Y., dec. Anthony Tettis, Ridgeway, Pa., 17-12
201 lbs/91 kg: James Zimmerman, san Jose, Calif., stopped Alecco Lawton, Orlando, Fla., RSC-3 (1:36)
201 lbs/91 kg: Joe Guzman, Ft. Carson, Colo., dec. David Carey, Anchorage, Ak., 17-15
201 lbs/91 kg: Deontay Wilder, Tuscaloosa, Ala., dec. Quantis Graves, Cutoff, La., 20-10

emile · Post by **emile** » 05 Jun 2007, 22:44

I have to assume that it was just a misprint and Escalante actually beat Rau'Shee Warren

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 05 Jun 2007, 22:46

emile wrote:These results make me even more confident about my earlier suggestion that the Armed Forces winner should not be getting a bye into the Trials. It seems reasonable that that would guarantee them a place at the US Championships, but it is completely obvious that that title is nowhere near as difficult to win as the PAL or GGs. Every single winner, except for Chris Downs, was beaten this morning. By selectively seeding them, they are making it harder for some of the best boxers to make it to the Trials.

Dennis pointed out that some of the Trials boxers were going to be weaker than some of those left home. Case in point, Nicholas Swan of Great Falls, MT - who benefitted from Bear Richardson not making weight and beat a fighter from Seattle. Today he was pounded by Cymone Kearney, and he's so low profile I couldn't find a single article about him in his hometown paper, which is hardly the New York Times. I wish him luck and congratulate him on his success, but he looks to be in for a double pounding at the Trials.

And Charles Hatley is beating people with extreme prejudice - will this be the tourney that he breaks through? 152 is looking very solid to me.

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I'd like to respond to your point about Nick Swan. Nick is NOT a Light Heavyweight. Today he only weighed about 167 pounds. He's 5'11. And this is his first year boxing again in 2 years. He's quick and has good reflexes, but has a bad habit of dropping his left hand when he moves-as I said, he's slick and has good reflexes, and so can get away with that. He wasn't originally our regional representative at 178, he was runner up, but the guy who beat him dropped to 165 and was representing the USAF I believe. As for not finding an article about him-Nick only moved back to Great Falls from Los Angeles in about Feburary I would guess and started boxing again, like I mentioned. During those 2 years he was in LA he wasn't boxing because he couldn't afford it. Another issue is that boxing isn't a huge sport here in Montana (hence the reason USA Boxing treats boxers from MT with utter disrespect). If you want the best boxer from MT at the moment, it's Junior Caferro, who's fighting Hylon Williams tonight. He's beaten Hylon before 2 years ago, and Junior is apparently very sharp right now, he's motivated because aside from the PAL in October of 06 he's had a bad run of luck in tournaments the past year. I won't be surprised to see him in the semi finals, and because of the brackets he's gotten and the results of other matches, even see him in the finals. His big trouble is Rico Ramos, and Rico is in a completely seperate bracket from him.

I'm not sure if anyone has heard either, but the DQ result in Vincent Montoya's fight has been overturned (112lbs) and he'll be fighting again.