Jimmy Young: Denied The Title, Where Should He Rank?

[KOJOE90]

[granberry]

OK...I'll be a mythbuster here. The power it takes to bust an eardrum is .......not much my friends. All that needs to happen is that a punch or a slap simply happen in conjunction with a slighty tight seal around the ear canal. You can pop your own granberry, (should you wish to verify my statement) with little effort...though it can be quite painful. The drum skin it self is rather delicate. A bit of compression on a sealed ear canal and a good quick punch or slap against it and Voila! This will effect your hearing....so I suggest against trying it.

So what have we learned here? ...I would say what we have learned is though Jimmy Young may have been the heavy handed puncher that granberry insinuates with his implied "insider knowledge", the eardrum damage to Ali does nothing to support this particular theory.

Class dismissed.

granberry I want you to step up to the front of the class and write 50 times on the blackboard the following sentence....

"Joe Frazier was not the best singer in the Rat Pack and Jimmy Young was no KO artist."

SILLY and SUPERFICIAL--That's buzz.

Tell us again about Joe Frazier's singing, buzz.

That's as close as poor buzz will ever get to "boxing".

[BoxBuzz]

OK...I'll be a mythbuster here. The power it takes to bust an eardrum is .......not much my friends. All that needs to happen is that a punch or a slap simply happen in conjunction with a slighty tight seal around the ear canal. You can pop your own granberry, (should you wish to verify my statement) with little effort...though it can be quite painful. The drum skin it self is rather delicate. A bit of compression on a sealed ear canal and a good quick punch or slap against it and Voila! This will effect your hearing....so I suggest against trying it.

So what have we learned here? ...I would say what we have learned is though Jimmy Young may have been the heavy handed puncher that granberry insinuates with his implied "insider knowledge", the eardrum damage to Ali does nothing to support this particular theory.

Class dismissed.

granberry I want you to step up to the front of the class and write 50 times on the blackboard the following sentence....

"Joe Frazier was not the best singer in the Rat Pack and Jimmy Young was no KO artist."

SILLY and SUPERFICIAL--That's buzz.

Tell us again about Joe Frazier's singing, buzz.

That's as close as poor buzz will ever get to "boxing".

It's OK granber's I don't mind responding to your SILLY and SUPERFICIAL contribution's so don't go feeling self concious on me.

[Jaclem]

..when box buzz gets serious about a topic on which he is knowledgable, take it as a teaching post and learn from it.

re: ear slapping.....i learned in my teens that slightly cupping your hands and whacking a guy on the ears.....strictly in self defense, of course....is...let is say...very effective. and i was a flyweight well into my thirties.....and most of the whackees to whom i was the whacker were in the heavier ranks...i am referring to street and bar collisions....not official boxing weights...

[granberry]

..when box buzz gets serious about a topic on which he is knowledgable, take it as a teaching post and learn from it.

re: ear slapping.....i learned in my teens that slightly cupping your hands and whacking a guy on the ears.....strictly in self defense, of course....is...let is say...very effective. and i was a flyweight well into my thirties.....and most of the whackees to whom i was the whacker were in the heavier ranks...i am referring to street and bar collisions....not official boxing weights...

Poor buzz must have gotten wacked in the ears too many times.

But he still thinks he hears Joe Frazier singing.

Ali was a mess after the Jimmy Young fight.

He sat at the big press table after the fight with his hand against the side of his face, like a woman trying to console herself.

When Young came in and sat beside him, Ali would not look at Young.

He kept his head averted.

Young turned his seat sideways so that he was facing directly at Ali.

Ali finally looked over in Young's direction, and Young laughed in his face, holding his face a few inches from Ali's.

Ali turned his head away, and never looked in Young's direction again.

Poor Ali got a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons from Young

and an ass-whipping for fifteen continuous rounds.

Tell us about Joe Frazier's singing again, buzz.

[Collins2000]

..when box buzz gets serious about a topic on which he is knowledgable, take it as a teaching post and learn from it.

re: ear slapping.....i learned in my teens that slightly cupping your hands and whacking a guy on the ears.....strictly in self defense, of course....is...let is say...very effective. and i was a flyweight well into my thirties.....and most of the whackees to whom i was the whacker were in the heavier ranks...i am referring to street and bar collisions....not official boxing weights...

Poor buzz must have gotten wacked in the ears too many times.

But he still thinks he hears Joe Frazier singing.

Ali was a mess after the Jimmy Young fight.

He sat at the big press table after the fight with his hand against the side of his face, like a woman trying to console herself.

When Young came in and sat beside him, Ali would not look at Young.

He kept his head averted.

Young turned his seat sideways so that he was facing directly at Ali.

Ali finally looked over in Young's direction, and Young laughed in his face, holding his face a few inches from Ali's.

Ali turned his head away, and never looked in Young's direction again.

Poor Ali got a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons from Young

and an ass-whipping for fifteen continuous rounds.

Tell us about Joe Frazier's singing again, buzz.

It's a pity Jimmy Young didn't show the same aggression in the ring with Ali where it really mattered. He could have won that fight if he hadn't kept popping his head out of the ropes. Imagine if Ali had done that; dear old Crankberry would be whining about it still. Methinks The Crankster ought to wheel himself in front of his telly and watch some of these fights.

[granberry]

..when box buzz gets serious about a topic on which he is knowledgable, take it as a teaching post and learn from it.

re: ear slapping.....i learned in my teens that slightly cupping your hands and whacking a guy on the ears.....strictly in self defense, of course....is...let is say...very effective. and i was a flyweight well into my thirties.....and most of the whackees to whom i was the whacker were in the heavier ranks...i am referring to street and bar collisions....not official boxing weights...

Poor buzz must have gotten wacked in the ears too many times.

But he still thinks he hears Joe Frazier singing.

Ali was a mess after the Jimmy Young fight.

He sat at the big press table after the fight with his hand against the side of his face, like a woman trying to console herself.

When Young came in and sat beside him, Ali would not look at Young.

He kept his head averted.

Young turned his seat sideways so that he was facing directly at Ali.

Ali finally looked over in Young's direction, and Young laughed in his face, holding his face a few inches from Ali's.

Ali turned his head away, and never looked in Young's direction again.

Poor Ali got a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons from Young

and an ass-whipping for fifteen continuous rounds.

Tell us about Joe Frazier's singing again, buzz.

It's a pity Jimmy Young didn't show the same aggression in the ring with Ali where it really mattered. He could have won that fight if he hadn't kept popping his head out of the ropes. Imagine if Ali had done that; dear old Crankberry would be whining about it still. Methinks The Crankster ought to wheel himself in front of his telly and watch some of these fights.

Lester Bromberg, longtime Ring magazine writer going back to its inception,

scored the fight 11 rounds to 4 for Young.

What fight was Lester Bromberg watching?

Lester Bromberg called the decision in the Young-Ali fight "a travesty of a decision."

[Chuck1052]

In fairness to Lester Bromberg, the scoring of the ring officials
in the bout between Muhammad Ali and Jimmy Young WAS
terrible.

- Chuck Johnston

[granberry]

In fairness to Lester Bromberg, the scoring of the ring officials
in the bout between Muhammad Ali and Jimmy Young WAS
terrible.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck

you are reading too quickly.

Lester Bromberg had 50 years of experience with boxing.

He was one of the great writers for the RING magazine before Nat Fleischer died and the the Ring turned to crap.

Bromberg pointed out that in the first round Young landed several jabs, one sharp right hand, and over twenty clean body shots

while Ali landed zero punches---

and the judges gave that round to Ali.

The scoring in that fight was a Don King special.

It didn't matter what happened in the ring.

Ali was the "winner" as long he wasn't officially declared dead in the ring before the end of the 15th round.

No supposed "champion" was ever more embarrassed and exposed than Ali was in the 15 round boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons he took from Jimmy Young.

[Chuck1052]

granberry- I was reacting to Lester Bromberg's scoring of
the bout in heavily in favor of Jimmy Young while pointing
out that the officials' scores heavily in favor of Muhammad Ali
were outrageous. But I will also add that I failed to read
everything on this thread.

I saw the bout between Ali and Young on television. In the
bout, Young's ability to counterpunch and slip punches was
impressive. I also remember one entire round in which Ali
held his arms up to shield his face while Young was throwing
and landing punches, mostly to Ali's body. Yes, I noticed the
fact that the scoring of that round was very flawed.

Young was very impressive in his second bout with Ron Lyle,
which was shown on national television. While on the inside,
Young was beating Lyle to the punch consistently, winning
the bout handily.

- Chuck Johnston

[I Feel Fine]

Ali was 34 and 235 pounds. End of story.

I give Young credit and I thought he won the fight, but lets not get crazy.

[Collins2000]

Ali was 34 and 235 pounds. End of story.

I give Young credit and I thought he won the fight, but lets not get crazy.

It's too late for Crankberry

[granberry]

granberry- I was reacting to Lester Bromberg's scoring of
the bout in heavily in favor of Jimmy Young while pointing
out that the officials' scores heavily in favor of Muhammad Ali
were outrageous. But I will also add that I failed to read
everything on this thread.

I saw the bout between Ali and Young on television. In the
bout, Young's ability to counterpunch and slip punches was
impressive. I also remember one entire round in which Ali
held his arms up to shield his face while Young was throwing
and landing punches, mostly to Ali's body. Yes, I noticed the
fact that the scoring of that round was very flawed.

Young was very impressive in his second bout with Ron Lyle,
which was shown on national television. While on the inside,
Young was beating Lyle to the punch consistently, winning
the bout handily.

- Chuck Johnston

And then Young beat Foreman.

But Ali refused to give Young a rematch.

[granberry]

Young's win over Foreman is about as impressive as Ali's win over Young.

That's up to your usual level of perception, decagon.

Tell us again how Sam Langford didn't deserve a chance at Jack Johnson's heavyweight title.

Then tell us again how running for his life and grabbing and holding on for 15 rounds against a drugged young novice (Leon Spinks)

was one of the "defining" moments of Ali's career.

[KOJOE90]

Some interesting quotes you may enjoy.

Jimmy Young when asked why he kept ducking through the ropes against Ali.

"Confusion"

Dick Young of the New York Daily News, with regards to Ali vs Young.

"I had Young winning big, 11 rounds to 4, and he got robbed big"

Jimmy Young on George Foreman

"Do you know who my easiest fight was? George Forman, he was so big that you could see all his punches coming, which gave me so much time"

Jimmy Young on Larry Holmes.

"Holmes was a King fighter, King would not let me fight him"

Jimmy Young on Jerry Quarry.

"Quarry was the only guy I think would have given me a real hard time. That's the only guy I didn't really want to fight"

Jimmy Young on who hit him the hardest.

"Earnie Shavers!"

[The Great John L]

Some great quotes, thanks. I especially find the one about Quarry interesting, although I don't remember that one.

I think Jerry could have been pretty tough for Foreman as well, if that fight could have been made.

[granberry]

Some interesting quotes you may enjoy.

Jimmy Young when asked why he kept ducking through the ropes against Ali.

"Confusion"

Horsesh*t.

Jimmy Young was taunting Ali.

Young taunted Ali at the weigh in over the fact Ali leaned his entire body from the knees up out of the ring during MOST of his fight with Foreman.

Young got Ali to lose his composure 15 seconds into their fight.

Young hit Ali with a clean left jab in the middle of the face and then laughed at Ali.

Ali lost control of himself completely and went stumbling forward at Young and threw a wild circular left swing

and his momentum from throwing the wild slap (which missed by a foot) almost carried Ali out of the ring.

Even clueless Howard Cosell, the ultimate Ali shill, remarked

that that wasn't very good beginning for Ali.

The fight was already over from that moment, since a fighter who loses control of himself emotionally is a loser.

Jimmy Young exposed Ali for all time as the mediocrity he was.

For FIFTEEN continuous rounds.

And there is nothing the Ali Industry can do about that.

[KOJOE90]

Horsesh*t.

Not sure if this was aimed at me or the quote itself. But just for clarification I was just quoting directly from a 2003 Jimmy Young interview printed in Boxing News.

[granberry]

Horsesh*t.

Not sure if this was aimed at me or the quote itself. But just for clarification I was just quoting directly from a 2003 Jimmy Young interview printed in Boxing News.

I was standing next to Ali and Young at the weigh in while Young taunted Ali and Bundini about Ali's leaning out of the ring in his Foreman fight.

When they tried on the gloves at the weigh in, Young went over and beat poor Bundini on the top of his head with the heel of the glove he had on--HARD ! and repeatedly.

Bundini, who was not exactly what would be called brave or manly,

wailed in a high-pitched voice, "We're gonna call off the fight. We're gonna call off the fight.."

Poor Bundini and Ali.

Jimmy Young treated them rudely.

[KOJOE90]

Jimmy Young treated them rudely.

I am suprised at that, everything I have ever heard or read about the late Jimmy Young was that he was a kind, sweet and gentle man.

Or come (pre)fight time did he develop a more 'mean' atitude or maybe just extreme confidence?

[granberry]

Jimmy Young treated them rudely.

I am suprised at that, everything I have ever heard or read about the late Jimmy Young was that he was a kind, sweet and gentle man.

Or come (pre)fight time did he develop a more 'mean' atitude or maybe just extreme confidence?

It's better to see IN PERSON, with your own eyes.

"Quotes" in a pathetic boxing magazine published in the year 2003 about a fight that took place in 1976 can be worth less than the paper they are written on.

Young also beat Angelo Dundee on the top of the head in the same fashion that he did Bundini.

Dundee didn't say anything. He just stood there and endured it.

But he didn't look very happy.

Young had them rattled.

Bundini's attempts at voodoo didn't work with Young.

Young especially enjoyed taunting and scaring Bundini,

who would collapse immediately in the face of any opposition.

Ken Norton arrived shortly before the Young-Ali fight and worked out with Bossman Jones as his sparring partner.

Bundini came in and started to yell his tired talking points at Norton.

Several (rough) people there in the audience (with no connection to Norton) told Bundini to shut up, and he did, and left with his tail between his legs.

Bundini was a weakling who got a thrill out of connecting himself like a parasite with others like Ali.

If you ever caught Bundini alone, without anyone around to protect him,

and he realized that,

he made himself scarce and wailed while he did that.

[I Feel Fine]

Ali was 34 and 235 pounds. End of story.

I give Young credit and I thought he won the fight, but lets not get crazy.

It's too late for Crankberry

[granberry]

Ali was 34 and 235 pounds. End of story.

I give Young credit and I thought he won the fight, but lets not get crazy.

It's too late for Crankberry

IFeelLikeAFairy,

Young exposed Ali for all time as the mediocrity he was.

The only recourse the Ali industry has is to pretend the fight never happened.

[BoxBuzz]

Referee: Tom Kelly 72-65 | Judge: Larry Barrett 70-68 | Judge: Terry Moore 71-64 ~ Winner Ali in a Unanimous decision...perhaps not the best decision ever but there it is granberry.....still the same today as it ever was.

granberry...I should introduce you to the strawman...but I forgot his address.

I know you want us to judge many fighters on their worst moments...If you dislike a fighter you seem to make much of what might be considered their low points. Is this how you also judge those you think highly of?

It seems you have great respect for Jimmy Young....Can you tell us about OcasioX2, Dokes and Cooney? OH and Page Tubbs and Tucker feasted on him as well not to mention Tiger Williams and the Acorn. His whole resume outside of great wins with Lyle and Foreman is about his close but no cigar fight with an overweight and perhaps a bit overconfident Ali. ( I guess Trevor Berbick can be called a legend in your mind for actually having TRULY defeated Ali.)

By the way for everyone reading this I want to say that I honestly think Jimmy had a stellar career even with the losses. He always gave a good showing was a great boxer and had a damn good chin as well. He was remarkable.

Oh and what the hell happend with Jumbo and Joe? Don't get me wrong I think Joe is without a doubt one of the all time greats but I suppose we have to reassess if we go by your "rule of thumb". Joe's distinguished career must have been a fluke to only pull a draw off with ol' Jumbo. According to your way of thinking I guess Floyd just exposed Joe for what he was, a Mediocre...average sort of fighter.

I shouldn't bring this down to your level but I think we need to all see that in this case the emperor (granberry) has no clothes. Even though I have great respect for the fact that you had a front row seat to history which I would give my glass eye for. Yeah Yeah I would love to have been in your shoes during those days. But it don't mean I have to rubber stamp your eccentric babblings.

I know I know.....I should stick to speaking about how Joe sang......funny thing is Joe didnt' sing quite as well as Ali either. But I sure liked him and it is one of highlights of my life to have met him. I even enjoyed listening to him and his band. I really don't feel I have to villify one of these guys to make the other guy look better. They were both absolutely legendary fighters. With "force of nature" will power that is almost exctinct in the current boxing era.


Now granberry read this article and learn....it will tell you very well where Ali's weaknesses were and why he still is likely the best of the best. But read it WITHOUT your prejudice that you hold so close and value so highly. For others it should prove a good source of balanced information to be compared with the complete jabberwocky and gobbledeegook that the cranky coot graberry chooses to spew.


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[Chuck1052]

A few years ago, I read the Boxing News piece on Jimmy
Young. It appears that Young had a tremendous memory
when it came to the minute details of his boxing career.
But..it is my understanding that his memory of most
recent events was faulty in the last years of his life.

- Chuck Johnston