The Forgotten Decade

[Ambling Alp]

It always seemed to me that the 1960's gets overlooked, with the exception of the heavyweight division.
There were so many great and very good fighters that you hardly hear about. I ranked my Top 10 (not including heavyweights), though there are so many close calls that it could easily be changed.

I only counted what a fighter actually achieved in the 1960's.
I have to leave out guys like Gene Fullmer and Pascual Perez out since their great fights from the 1950's don't count. As well as guys like Bob Foster and Jose Napoles whose fights from the 1970's don't count.

Anyway here is the Top 10:
1. Eder Jofre
2. Emile Griffith
3. Vincente Saldivar
4. Dick Tiger
5. Fighting Harada
6. Nino Benvenuti
7. Carlos Ortiz
8. Nicolino Loche
9. Luis Rodriguez
10. Flash Elorde

Honorable Mention: Sugar Ramos,Jose Torres, and Curtis Cokes.

I am sure that I am leaving out someone obvious but can't think of who.
Anyway, I thought it would be a fun change of pace to discuss guys that don't get often get a lot of attention.

Who is too high, too low, or got completely overlooked?

[Seamus]

I think I'd have Argentinian Flyweight Horacio Accavallo in the top 10. I'd probably have him ahead of Saldivar and Elorde.

[Jaclem]

... i've never seen jofre fight so i won't comment, although his record does speak for itself.

split decisions and all (i think he held the record for those ...maybe over all, maybe just in title fights) but i'd put griffith at the top of an impressive list. also glad to see rodriguez making the list. if griffith hadn't been around i think luis might be rated higher among boxing followers. as it is, he did take the title from emile once, and many, including me, thought he was robbed in another one in their trio.

[dr_devious]

Id probably put Locche a bit higher up the list. Id also have Jose Napoles on the list as arguably he was at his peak in the 60s

[elmersalsa]

My top 10 of the 1960s, taking away Muhammad Ali and the heavyweights.

1. Eder Jofre
2. Emile Griffith
3. Dick Tiger
4. Fighting Harada
5. Carlos Ortiz...Fantastic fighter when in shape
6. Vicente Saldivar
7. Flash Elorde
8. Luis Manuel Rodriguez...Beat the top welters and middleweights of the era.
9. Nino Benvenutti...Won three world titles in the decade
10. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles...ducked throughout the 60s

Honorable Mention: Bob Foster, Ruben Olivares, Nicolino Locche, Ismael Laguna

[silkov]

Harada was pretty awesome in the 1960s. I wouldn't put him below anyone other than Jofre or Griffith.

How can you put Harada below Jofre when he beat him twice??... :x ...and this wasnt an old Jofre but a prime Jofre!! :x

[silkov]

It really annoys me how Harada never gets the credit for his wins over Jofre... people are always saying how great Jofre was and I'm not disputing that but Harada beat him twice!... not once, but twice!... in his prime!... lets give the guy (Harada) his due!...
remember we'd be talking of Harada as a 3 weight world champ if Willie Pep had taken his glasses to the first Harada vs Famechon fight!!... even the Aussies were outraged by the 'decision' and they were Famechons countrymen!!! 8)

[Arbachakov]

Jofre was past his prime and having trouble making the weight by the time of the Harada bouts.

I could see an argument for Harada over him anyway though, as he was a superb fighter.

[Arbachakov]

Jofre only lost to Harada. Harada lost to Esparza, Kingpetch, Medel, Rose, Colter and Famechon. Jofre's only losses were close decisions, and unlike Harada, he was never stopped.

Good points.

[silkov]

Jofre only lost to Harada. Harada lost to Esparza, Kingpetch, Medel, Rose, Colter and Famechon. Jofre's only losses were close decisions, and unlike Harada, he was never stopped.

So? Harada lost some fights?... he still beat Jofre twice... if you knew much about Harada you'd know that most of his defeats, perhaps all of them actually, were down to weight problems, certainly his defeats to Kingpetch and Rose (both close fights) were down partly to weight making.... he had to lose 20 pounds in the closeing days before the Rose fight alone. Against Medel he fought the wrong fight and was koed but Medel was an animal who could have been champion, in their rematch Harada fought a different fight and completely outboxed Medel.
Harada should be a 3 weight world champion, Fly, Bantam and Feather... how many other fighters have done that?... and he wasnt a 'big' fighter either.

[silkov]

... and Jofre's losses to Harada weren't due to weight problems?

No they werent, Harada had the style to beat Jofre... I'm not saying that Jofre wasnt a great champ but just pointing out that Harada is very underrated and it seems strange to rate Jofre higher than a guy who beat him twice... how many people rate Ezzard Charles over Marcinao??... even though Charles was well past his best when he fought Rocky while Jofre was still in his prime when he fought Harada.

[HomicideHenry]

The 1960's is a very much under-rated decade for the HW's, though it was full of alot of obvious talent such as:

-Eddie Machen
-Ingemar Johansson
-Henry Cooper
-George Chuvalo
-Harold Johnson
-Floyd Patterson
-Sonny Liston
-Muhammad Ali
-Cleveland Williams
-Ernie Terrell
-Zora Folley
-Archie Moore
-Doug Jones

and many others...

certainly better than the late 50's (the era of Marciano) and certainly better than the present day era and of the 1980's.

[Ambling Alp]

If one guy beats another twice, he probably was the better fighter. However, not always. The winner shouldn't automatically be ranked higher. How close the two fights were and even more importantly the rest of their careers have to be considered.
However, if the rest of their career is about even, then the winner of the head to head fights should be rated higher.

In the case of Harada and Jofre, it's a tough call. I rate Jofre higher because as good as the rest of Harada's career was, Jofre's was better, though not by a lot. Add the fact that their two head to head fights were very close, Jofre should get the edge.

[Ambling Alp]

I don't like taking out the heavyweights, so here's my list:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Eder Jofre
3. Sonny Liston
4. Emile Griffith
5. Fighting Harada
6. Dick Tiger
7. Bob Foster
8. Luis Rodriguez
9. Nicolino Locche
10. Jose Napoles
11. Vicente Saldivar
12. Floyd Patterson
13. Carlos Ortiz
14. Pone Kingpetch
15. Duilo Loi
16. Flash Elorde
17. Joe Brown
18. Nino Benvinuti
19. Harold Johnson
20. Paul Pender

All I can say is, "wow." I know there are huge problems with this list, but those are some top names.

Wow is right. There really were some great fighters in this decade. Of course there is in every decade, but it seems that besides the heavyweights, these guys don't get their due.

I probably should have included Napoles in my original list. I always thought of him as a 1970's fighter, but he was great in the 1960's as well.

I'm not sure about Foster for the 1960's. He struggled in the early 1960's before reaching his best in the late 1960's.

I probably should have counted Duilo Loi as well. I had thought of him as a 1950's fighter, but he was still great in the 1960's.

Again there were some great fighters in this decade that we so seldom discuss. We probably spend more time on Nino Valdes or Bob Satterfield or Jerry Quarry than truly great fighters like Benvenuti,Salidvar,Elorde,Rodriguez and Tiger combined.

[I Feel Fine]

I don't know much about Jofre either, and I unfortunately have never seen his fights. But I know many rank him as the best Bantamweight ever, and from what I've read he lost to Harada mainly because of weight drain, and the fights were close... I think the rematch was a split decision. Then he moved up in weight, and I assume that helped him recover (sort of like Hopkins moving up in weight to fight Tarver) and he was able to win the Featherweight title. I wish I could see some of his fights, I should probably check youtube or something.

A lot of great fighters though. Foster could be thrown in the discussion, he had scored his biggest win in the 60's over Tiger, and defended his title a couple of times. Griffith was at his best in the 60's, had some close fights and some losses but overall was probably top 2-3 P4P in that decade. Tiger himself was also a top fighter in the 60's, and a two division champion who, again like Hopkins, moved straight to Light Heavyweight to win the title, after having lost his Middleweight title controversially to Griffith. There was also Napoles, who was an excellent fighter, I've seen his first fight with Cokes, very good, action packed fight... solid fighters.

I've often wondered that myself, why 60's boxing isn't talked about much (outside of the Heavyweight division, which was also pretty good with Ali, Liston and Patterson and some decent contenders, and also with some great emerging contenders in the late 60's). Same thing with 70's boxing, really. A lot of great champions in these eras who get underlooked, probably because of the Heavyweight division at the time and probably because of other eras like the 50's and 80's with the Robinson's and Leonard's and Hagler's etc. But there were a lot of great fighters inbetween.

As for the ratings, I dunno. I don't think I could make a list a better than the ones listed. They look pretty good.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

It always seemed to me that the 1960's gets overlooked, with the exception of the heavyweight division.
There were so many great and very good fighters that you hardly hear about. I ranked my Top 10 (not including heavyweights), though there are so many close calls that it could easily be changed.

I only counted what a fighter actually achieved in the 1960's.
I have to leave out guys like Gene Fullmer and Pascual Perez out since their great fights from the 1950's don't count. As well as guys like Bob Foster and Jose Napoles whose fights from the 1970's don't count.

Anyway here is the Top 10:
1. Eder Jofre
2. Emile Griffith
3. Vincente Saldivar
4. Dick Tiger
5. Fighting Harada
6. Nino Benvenuti
7. Carlos Ortiz
8. Nicolino Loche
9. Luis Rodriguez
10. Flash Elorde

Honorable Mention: Sugar Ramos,Jose Torres, and Curtis Cokes.

I am sure that I am leaving out someone obvious but can't think of who.
Anyway, I thought it would be a fun change of pace to discuss guys that don't get often get a lot of attention.

Who is too high, too low, or got completely overlooked?

tiger should be over emile griffith, especially since tiger was robbed vs emile

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

The 1960's is a very much under-rated decade for the HW's, though it was full of alot of obvious talent such as:

-Eddie Machen
-Ingemar Johansson
-Henry Cooper
-George Chuvalo
-Harold Johnson
-Floyd Patterson
-Sonny Liston
-Muhammad Ali
-Cleveland Williams
-Ernie Terrell
-Zora Folley
-Archie Moore
-Doug Jones

and many others...

certainly better than the late 50's (the era of Marciano) and certainly better than the present day era and of the 1980's.

actually folley, williams, machen, liston, moore, johnson all hit there peaks in the 1950s

[HomicideHenry]

True Brock, but what I was meaning was that Machen, Johnson, Moore, Folley, Williams, Liston, and others, were all dangerous opponents and highly regarded in the early to mid 60's still; hell wasn't Sonny Liston himself in a HW tournament to determine the vacant HW champion after Ali was banned from boxing? Wasn't Moore still generally considered one of the best LHW's and HW's up until he retired?

Irregardless of opinion, these men were still ranked rather exceptional and were considered tough assignments for up and comers.

[Ezzard]

tiger should be over emile griffith, especially since tiger was robbed vs emile

Brock, I agree with Dec that Griffith achieved more. Also, he was a welter who moved up.

[Seamus]

I only got as far as my top 5 of the 1960's

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Nino Benvenuti
3.Emile Griffith
4.Carlos Ortiz
5.Fighting Harada

I rate Eder Jofre above 4 of those guys but this is about the 60's only. Incidentally, it only dawned on me a few days ago that Jofre had more wins in the 50's and the 70's than the 60's.

[Ambling Alp]

That is a great catch about Jofre. You could win some bets with that. Most people think of him as a 1960's fighter since most of his major fights were in the 1960's.

It was interesting that you had Benvenuti at #2. For some reason, a lot of people don't think that highly of him.

[Seamus]

Alp

Well Benvenuti went 80-3-1 in the 60's, won the JMW and MW titles, took 2 out of 3 from Emile Griffith, 2 out of 2 from a very good Sandro Mazzinghi, and knocked out the outstanding Luis Rodriguez with one punch. In addition, had it not been for an absolute robbery in Seoul South Korea vs Ki-Soo Kim , Benvenuti would have began his career at 73-0. Benvenuti dropped Kim in the 14th had him in serious trouble and would very likely have finished him in the final round, when someone broke one of the ropes and Kim ended up getting a 15 minute rest for the final round. He then got a SD win in a fight Benvenuti had dominated.

[Ambling Alp]

I totally agree with you that Benvenuti was a great fighter. He was a very talented and smart fighter, and as you mentioned had some great wins.

I don't understand why you hardly ever see people discuss him. On the last two Boxrec Rec Hall of Fame ballots, Ezzard & I were the only two people that voted for him.

[Seamus]

Benvenuti is one fighter I'm definitely considering for the next round, but as always it isn't about who to put on, but who to leave off.