Junior Witter, where next??

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 11:49

Nearly 10 years ago a young Junior Witter was beating Jan Bergman over Six rounds, he seemed destined for stardom...but 10 years later what was he really done??

The case for the Defence would say that he has done things via the traditional route, British, European and World...

But if you look closely his career is a complete non-entitly!! Who has he beaten..At European title level the best name on the record would be Koletnik...thats hardly Earth shattering....other than that the names on the record are applaling

At World level the best name on the Record would be Ndou..a man who loses every time he steps up in class and who will lose his paper title next time out! Other than that a shot to shit Corley and a crap Mexican..its just seems same old same old!!

Now this guy isnt going to get Harris it seems, more wasted time...where does he go from here??

Instead of trying to back door his way to a title should he have fought other top contenders 6 years ago, lost a few, won a few instead of calling out Hatton non-stop..

Cos like it or not..Ricky is a HBO superstar fighting a legend and Witter is sat with his thumb up his ass..sometimes you just have to swallow your pride and get on with it

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 12 Jun 2007, 11:54

A deliberate polemic, rocket?

Witter would fight plenty of people but he's hindered by three main things:

1. He's very good.
2. He doesn't sell many tickets/generate much cash.
3. His style is perceived as not being TV friendly.

I know most belts are shite but he has gone the old fashioned route, as you say, and got to the top.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:10

At least he can always say he was world champ, which didn't look like he would be a couple of years ago...

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:14

Witter didn't really have the choice to fight the top contenders. He may get Vivian Harris, if not he needs to keep fighting, Henessey are doing him no favours keeping him innactive.

The Harris fight isn't certain so it may still happen. I think they would be talking about other fights if it was definately OFF.

How about Witter-Ndou 2 for unification? Or Magillagi if he beats Ndou. Or maybe Freitas would be worth riding along with. Beating Urango may be a good idea. DHOPs wouldn't fight Witter, which is a shame.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:15

Oh Ian, your so cynical.......

You say hes got to the top but what does the top really mean???

The guy may hold a belt but if any other champion said they were gonna fight him HBO would laugh themselves to death and that would be that!!

Does anyone consider him a World Champ..does anyone consider Ndou a Champ...?

They are all swimming in Ricky Hattons pool..calling Witter a world champ is like saying Francesco Damiani(who was also talented) was a world champ when he held the WBO belt at the same time as Mike Tyson...

The question should be hows he gonna change that perception?...or will all his fans just whine and bitch for the next year saying Hatton should/should have fought him until the day he loses his belt??

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:18

thepocketrocket wrote: The question should be hows he gonna change that perception?...or will all his fans just whine and bitch for the next year saying Hatton should/should have fought him until the day he loses his belt??

Your right Hatton shouldn't face the top contenders. Its also a great thing RJJ and DM never met, its even better that Lewis-Bowe never happened

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:20

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote: The question should be hows he gonna change that perception?...or will all his fans just whine and bitch for the next year saying Hatton should/should have fought him until the day he loses his belt??
Your right Hatton shouldn't face the top contenders. Its also a great thing RJJ and DM never met, its even better that Lewis-Bowe never happened

Top contenders?? I will take Castillo ahead of Witter though im sure some on here would disagree

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:51

thepocketrocket wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote: The question should be hows he gonna change that perception?...or will all his fans just whine and bitch for the next year saying Hatton should/should have fought him until the day he loses his belt??
Your right Hatton shouldn't face the top contenders. Its also a great thing RJJ and DM never met, its even better that Lewis-Bowe never happened
Top contenders?? I will take Castillo ahead of Witter though im sure some on here would disagree

Castillo will be the first top contender hes fought since 2005. Castillo is an unknown, I thought Ngoudjo beat him last time, so Castillo does look like a shopworn fighter.

I'm definately looking forward to Hatton-Castillo but would prefer Hatton-Witter.

Hatton doing a great job as being a business man but in terms of reigning as a champion and building his legacy hes not doing that much outside of the Tyszu fight - going off your logic that Witter hasnt done anything at all. Witter and Hattons resume look pretty level outside of the Tyszu win - which is massive, but its been 2 years now

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:58

As for what Witter should do - rack up as many WBC defenses as possible, fight 5 times a year, call out all the top fighters and keep training hard. Fighting once every 6 months isn't the best plan

I wish Witter would get back with allegedly, he'd get more fights, more exposure and Warren would make him a priority now. Henessey are doing a poor job - outside of getting him the WBC title, which was a good job

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:00

It's odd really for Witter - I don't know what's going on with Harris, but it will be a shame for Witter if that falls through.

I still maintain that Witter did himself no favours by leaving SN - I mean he had been manouvered into fighting Pinto at one point, until he pulled a sicky - A fight in hindsight he would have won comfortably.

It wasn't ideal having to re-establish himself at that point in his career.

It's all very well saying he went the traditional route, but I can't help but feel it is more of a necessity with Hennessey fighters rather than a choice to travel this route.

N'dou is still Witters best performance in my opinion, and that about sums his career up at this moment in time.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:04

Castillo shopworn?? He always looks piss poor in non-title fights and comes out for the big ones...this sounds like a standard get out clause for if Hatton wins or struggles...

What we do know about Castillo is that he pushed Mayweather Twice(arguably beating him) dominated the Lightweight division and gave us the fight of the Century against Corrales....I doubt that One poor performance can be a justification to dismiss his resume...

Oh, and Witter has never beaten anyone like Magee(at that respective time)or Collazo...he, maybe if he did take a step up to fight a Welter BELT HOLDER he may be more worth of his night in the Sun??

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:11

thepocketrocket wrote:Castillo shopworn?? He always looks piss poor in non-title fights and comes out for the big ones...this sounds like a standard get out clause for if Hatton wins or struggles...

What we do know about Castillo is that he pushed Mayweather Twice(arguably beating him) dominated the Lightweight division and gave us the fight of the Century against Corrales....I doubt that One poor performance can be a justification to dismiss his resume...

Oh, and Witter has never beaten anyone like Magee(at that respective time)or Collazo...he, maybe if he did take a step up to fight a Welter BELT HOLDER he may be more worth of his night in the Sun??

We don't know how much Castillo has left, not too many people are impressed with Castillo-Hatton because Castillos been out of the ring for so long and he hasn't fought a top10 opponent for nearly 2 years (Corrales), plus hes untested at 140, plus like I said an unknown African may have beat him last time out - it was close.

No doubt that on his day Castillo is an excellent fighter but has his day past?

Corley is better than Maggee and Collazo is a bit better but allot of people thought Collazo beat Hatton. Collazo didn't look too hot against Mosley

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:13

It is odd theres been no statement about Witter-Harris. Who knows whats happening, if Harris had ducked out, you'd exect they'd make a statement.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:49

thepocketrocket wrote:calling Witter a world champ is like saying Francesco Damiani(who was also talented) was a world champ when he held the WBO belt at the same time as Mike Tyson...

Now don't get me wrong, rocket, I like the cut of your jib since you have returned...you seem to have matured and are rucking in a more measured fashion. Your English has also improved out of all recognition (seriously).

But this is your old style crazy talk!

There is little comparison here - the WBO was a fledgling belt whereas the WBC (I know, I know, they're all shit) is established and regarded as the best by many.

Plus, when Damiani's spectacular reign as the first WBO champ overlapped with Tyson's reign, the latter was undisputed champ and far more dominant than Hatton has been.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:50

3. His style is perceived as not being TV friendly.

Because people don't appreciate art and brains. 8)

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:51

Katon! wrote:
3. His style is perceived as not being TV friendly.
Because people don't appreciate art and brains. 8)

You have a point, for sure. I like him. Then again, I liked the latter day Johnny Nelson too.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:53

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote:calling Witter a world champ is like saying Francesco Damiani(who was also talented) was a world champ when he held the WBO belt at the same time as Mike Tyson...

Now don't get me wrong, rocket, I like the cut of your jib since you have returned...you seem to have matured and are rucking in a more measured fashion. Your English has also improved out of all recognition (seriously).

Does that mean you liked my Boxing News piece?..thanks Ian..(i think

)

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:56

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Katon! wrote:
3. His style is perceived as not being TV friendly.
Because people don't appreciate art and brains. 8)
You have a point, for sure. I like him. Then again, I liked the latter day Johnny Nelson too.

Watching Witter fight at Ally Pally is an almost surreal experience, to say he is world champ - the main event can look somewhat like the walk out fight!

THe Hennessey undercard is bulging with ticket sellers from the South East, whilst Witter is cheered on by a single coach load of Wincobank regulars.

It is weird.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:57

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote:calling Witter a world champ is like saying Francesco Damiani(who was also talented) was a world champ when he held the WBO belt at the same time as Mike Tyson...
Now don't get me wrong, rocket, I like the cut of your jib since you have returned...you seem to have matured and are rucking in a more measured fashion. Your English has also improved out of all recognition (seriously).

But this is your old style crazy talk!

There is little comparison here - the WBO was a fledgling belt whereas the WBC (I know, I know, they're all shit) is established and regarded as the best by many.

Plus, when Damiani's spectacular reign as the first WBO champ overlapped with Tyson's reign, the latter was undisputed champ and far more dominant than Hatton has been.

Seriously though, I know its not exactly the same but its about the general perception of the belt holders..everyone KNOWS Hatton is LW champ, he beat the man in the division..anyone claiming to be a champ at the same weight has no legitimacy...

Maybe better to say its like claiming Collazo is a legitimitate as Margarito??

Scooby Doo · Post by **Scooby Doo** » 12 Jun 2007, 13:58

Witter brings nothing. That will change ever so slightly if he is absolutely sensational against Vivian Harris, but he has to be FANTASTIC then it will take another fight after that before the right people will sit up and take notice.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 14:05

thepocketrocket wrote: Maybe better to say its like claiming Collazo is a legitimitate as Margarito??

Collazo was as legitamate as Margarito at 147, so if you want to say Witter/Hatton is as comparable to that - fair enough

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Jun 2007, 14:10

The Ingle style is very flawed. Unless your reflexes are great. It's so geared around fighting at your own pace and arrogant types take it up to make themselves look cool and befuddle limited sorts in the gym. It all looks so egotistical and it pisses off fans. It just looks like no one wants his belt except maybe Ajose Olusegun and he's too raw at the moment despite his huge talent.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 14:22

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote: Maybe better to say its like claiming Collazo is a legitimitate as Margarito??
Collazo was as legitamate as Margarito at 147, so if you want to say Witter/Hatton is as comparable to that - fair enough

Read it...im calling Collazo a belt holder like Witter, Collazos legitimacy as a world champ is comparable to Witters at LW...Collazo is better for Hatton though as he is a WELTER champ, a step up

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 15:03

thepocketrocket wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote: Maybe better to say its like claiming Collazo is a legitimitate as Margarito??
Collazo was as legitamate as Margarito at 147, so if you want to say Witter/Hatton is as comparable to that - fair enough
Read it...im calling Collazo a belt holder like Witter, Collazos legitimacy as a world champ is comparable to Witters at LW...Collazo is better for Hatton though as he is a WELTER champ, a step up

At least Witter won the legit WBC belt in the ring, Collazo was only given the real WBA belt because Baldomir didn't pay his fees. And the fact Hatton ran from a rematch and ran back down to Light-Welter says something

No ones claiming Witters undisputed, but hes the WBC champ, which is an acheivement few British boxers ever achieve. Beating Corley, Kotelnik, Ndou to get there, who were all top 10 ranked fighters is no small task. And Morua might not be great but he beat Maussa

states · Post by **states** » 12 Jun 2007, 15:04

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Corley is better than Maggee

Corley may be a better 'name' than Magee, but I think I'd back the Magee that fought Hatton to beat the Corley that fought Witter.

As for Witter himself, he really needs this Harris fight to happen. No names are going to face him voluntarily. I said a while back that i wouldn't be surprised to see Harris cry off the fight when he found out how little it was going to pay him. Harris labours under the impression that he's worth considerably more than he is.