Junior Witter, where next??

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:10

The Witter/Harris fight will happen, because Harris is in a similar position to Witter, he's not a draw. He needs that belt. If Witter gets by Harris, I suppose he'll just have to keep holding out for the Hatton fight, because the light welterweight division has gone to shit. Welterweight is where the action is now and Witter were to move up he'd be back to square one.

I'm personally not bothered about the Hatton/Witter fight to be honest though, so it won't bother me if it doesn't happen. People want Hatton to fight Witter, because Witter is British. If he wasn't, no one here would be calling for that fight. I think it's also a terrible style match up with the amount of holding they both do.

twenty six · Post by **twenty six** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:22

I am biased, I can't get away from it.
I've spent many hours watching the talents nurture over many years at Wincobank.
At the same time, I've been lucky to meet Ricky and watch him train over the years, and I've only missed one of his pro fights.
I've been saying it all these years - the lads at Wincobank know it, and Ricky knows it.
Junior Witter would give Ricky fits. At the time of them both being with FW, Wazza knew it as well.
The fight was never destined to happen, as Wazza would never risk his cash cow to a boxer who regrettfully has no following and cannot bring much to the table.
His style is perfect to beat Ricky, and Witter's power is underestimated.
He is firmly entrenched in the "who wants him, who needs him" camp.
I thought that would change when he won the WBC title.
It's all well and good blaming Junior for the quality of the opposition but sometimes there needs to be a reality check, and realise the kid is being avoided. Kid ? wrong word now he's over 30 and sadly I don't think we're going to see him get the chance against a top liner.
I really don't understand what's going on with his current Promotor, but suspect Mighty Mick is having the same issues as previous Promotors - mainly lack of marketability.
If Junior Witter had the following to match his ability, a bit of charisma, and a Promotor wiling to go the extra mile, he would be huge.
Sadly the ability box is the only one with a tick.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:32

I think the fight would have been competetive for 5 rounds and Ricky would have taken over..but agreed, it was never going to happen, especially as Junior at the time was looking to make himself unpopular, it just made no business sense...plus his performance against Judah was SOOOO negative no TV station would touch him

All joking aside I havnt started this thread to slag Junior off, im just frustrated at how his career has turned out(so far) hey, even if some Brits dont like Junior, im sure they would want to see him in big fights where he could get KTFO! Sadly nothing happens I fear we will never know how good he COULD have been..

I maintain....the worst thing he did was pull that performance against Judah but even then he should have been fed to a young prospect for no money(as a sweetner for TV), he wins he gets a BIG FIGHT..lose he gets a big fight cos hes beatable..neither ever happened

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:32

Witter is definitely an effective and sometimes classy fighter, but let's be real here, his style more often than not is frustrating and even god awful to watch. He only fights in spurts, does far to much posturing, and leaps into his opponents with punches, which in turn causes him to do almost as much holding as the man people want him to fight and the one and only John Ruiz.

That's why he hasn't got a following. If he was exciting the British fans would be all over him.

Brendan Ingle's style is very effective, but the only fighter who has ever managed to draw the fans in with it is Naz.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:41

thepocketrocket wrote:Castillo shopworn?? He always looks piss poor in non-title fights and comes out for the big ones...this sounds like a standard get out clause for if Hatton wins or struggles...

What we do know about Castillo is that he pushed Mayweather Twice(arguably beating him) dominated the Lightweight division and gave us the fight of the Century against Corrales....I doubt that One poor performance can be a justification to dismiss his resume...

Oh, and Witter has never beaten anyone like Magee(at that respective time)or Collazo...he, maybe if he did take a step up to fight a Welter BELT HOLDER he may be more worth of his night in the Sun??

interestingly enough, your initials in the medical fraternity mean to shove something up someones arse, and your posts have so many hidden agendas that that is what you should do with your points mentioned..

you are so pro hatton that ive a funny feeling you are spuds glove puppet, does he log in using your name?

witter is unorthodox, unusual, difficult to beat and has done things via the true route.

witter wants to fight hatton, unfortunately hatton will not play.

tell me something, apart from KT..who has hatton beaten that is better than kotelnik and n'dou.........fornicate me you are stuck arnt you, there is no one !!

castillo is a legend, but a legend from a few years ago, who is hattons next opponent, terry marsh ?

regards comrade

rhino....

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:44

Excuse me, where did that come from??? I aint even replyin to your points...

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:51

hey why not you menopausal midget, listen, ive been off the board for a while with personal issues, but im back and im on your case...

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 12 Jun 2007, 17:52

thepocketrocket wrote:Excuse me, where did that come from??? I aint even replyin to your points...

why not? go on, justify my points...please..

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 18:04

errm, welcome back Rhino, you been bailed then??

Well Magee circa 2002 was better than Ndou or Koletnik..watch the Urkal fight, neither would have pushed Urkal so close...Tackie at the time was a massive fight who only lost to the elite and Hatton put on a masterclass, he would have beaten Mbaye and Koletnik NO DOUBT

Collazo had beaten Rivera who went on to beat Alejandro Gonzalez, plus he was a Welter...Ndou and Koletnik are no better than Vince Phillips who had just pushed Mitchell all the way...

Hattons resume is superior, even hardcore Witter fans may admit that(maybe not)

Plus when do you 'stop' being a legend?? Its not like hes on the slide, Ngoudjo went and beat Bailey at the weekend..Castillo is a legend, this ainst like Chavez being killed by KT or Duran being humiliated by William Joppy..

Hatton is at the top of the tree, hows Witter gonna join him??

Scooby Doo · Post by **Scooby Doo** » 12 Jun 2007, 18:14

one simple question, name one single fight where Junior Witter has looked world class please I am only asking for one.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 12 Jun 2007, 18:34

you have a point, witter has struggled to impress, but has been plodding along, his wins against kotellnik and n' dou look better as the months go by....

hatton of late has failed to impress, against mausa he ko'd the gollum impersinator with a hook that even had me ducking watching tv, and he beat the orangutan last time out in a fornicating stinker......

talk about a hug fest !!

Scooby Doo · Post by **Scooby Doo** » 12 Jun 2007, 18:40

You will have a lot of people agreeing with you but that Gollum impersonator as you put beat Vivian Harris. Took his chance whilst it was there and made a few quid.

If Hatton did not fight him who do you suggest would have with of course the coveted WBA bauble on the line at the time.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 12 Jun 2007, 18:49

Yes my canine friend, and I imagine if he did Maussa would become an unorthodox monster who beat down Vivian Harris..a good world class win

states · Post by **states** » 12 Jun 2007, 22:36

Here's a question: In the internet age, can anyone think of a British fighter whose internet support is as far out of synch with his actual support as Witter?

I'm 29 now, I've been a boxing fan since the early to mid-eighties, and I've followed boxing online for the last 6 or 7 years. The online years have been the weird ones for boxing: It's been a declining sport, yet I've discussed boxing more than ever thanks to the internet.

In the time I've been talking boxing Online, the one constant seems to have been (at least amongst the Brits) Hatton-Witter. Yet Junior still can't sell a ticket. I know he's been boring in-ring at times, and he's never been a 'man of the people' like Hatton. But amongst the hardcore (i.e., geeks like us) fans, Witter has always been well-represented. So why can he not sell as many tickets as Sam Webb? Is it just that the only people who can appreciate Witter are the type of people who post on here? If Junior's fan base, percentage-wise was represented in the real world as it was on the interweb, he could sell out venues easily.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 13 Jun 2007, 02:26

Scooby Doo wrote:You will have a lot of people agreeing with you but that Gollum impersonator as you put beat Vivian Harris. Took his chance whilst it was there and made a few quid.

If Hatton did not fight him who do you suggest would have with of course the coveted WBA bauble on the line at the time.

lets not go down this road again....hatton has 'binned' all of the titles he has won ! where is a champions pride and a champions mentality...take on all comers etc..

truth..... hatton is interested in 'pretty green' and not legacy !!

1southpaw · Post by **1southpaw** » 13 Jun 2007, 02:27

if hatton wants to fight in manchester city,s ground as he says he does then the only fighter to fill it would be witter because whenever anyone talks about hatton(in britian) witter always pops up so why dont they just get it on

twenty six · Post by **twenty six** » 13 Jun 2007, 04:27

States,
I honestly don't believe Junior's internet support is as great as you think.
Added to that, there are many many posters who don't attend boxing live.
It's not a cheap hobby if you attend regularly as I do, and so its inevitable that attendees wil be more selective unless they are hardcore supporters.
Anyway the truth is Hatton was beaten by Thaxton and Ramsay - both fights should have been stopped on cuts and in the case of Johnno Junior gave him fits in training

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 13 Jun 2007, 05:18

thepocketrocket wrote:
Does that mean you liked my Boxing News piece?

Yes, was pretty good - I liked the conclusion about carrying a whole town with him. Nice touch.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 13 Jun 2007, 05:22

Thanks mate, much appreciated

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 13 Jun 2007, 09:03

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Katon! wrote:
3. His style is perceived as not being TV friendly.
Because people don't appreciate art and brains. 8)
You have a point, for sure. I like him. Then again, I liked the latter day Johnny Nelson too.

Counter Punching like boxers are under appreciated these days.

Too many prefer brainless wars.

The styles of the Ingle's and Calzaghe's should be taught to boxers more than basic covering up tight then just basic punching.

Thats why Graham Earl has too many wars, his defence Is too reliant on covering up.

British boxers are not taught to move enough, slip or counter too much. Most of them just cover up tight and throw a jab or hook or two.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jun 2007, 09:29

The problem with styles like Witter's and Calzaghes, is they rely on speed and reflexes, something not every fighter has. They are also quite demanding physically as they rely on movement rather than an orthodox guard.

At the end of the day, learning to fight out of a tight guard whilst still being able to continue punching is the most efficient way to fight, and when the reflexes start to go, an orthodox defence will still be executable.

Calzaghe's own offence is his defence to a large extent, he throws so many shots it is hard for his opponents to get off, and his movement makes it hard to draw a bead on him.

Witter's workrate however is pretty low these days, and he is winning fights by frustrating his opponents rather than overwhelming them.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 13 Jun 2007, 09:47

I agree.

Speed and reflexes can be built up though with the right training though.

At the end of the day, learning to fight out of a tight guard whilst still being able to continue punching is the most efficient way to fight, and when the reflexes start to go, an orthodox defence will still be executable.

It's efficient but fighting that way for some It will make you like a statue and take too many unnecessary punches.

It has to be taught though but after a while boxers should try to evolve the style Into their own unique style.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jun 2007, 10:08

Every fighter has an innate amount of speed and reflexes, these can be trained, but cannot turn a rocky marciano type into an Ali.

Training is about teaching a fighter to use their strengths. Timing can replace speed, and even if your opponent is quicker, you can time them and hit and hurt them.

Also, having a tight guard does not mean having to fight like a statue, but again, part of that is down to the fighter and how fluid they are, which to a degree is innate too. Look at the likes of Barrera, or more to the point Mayweather, both these men can stand in range and fight whilst also blocking and parrying incoming shots. The trouble is, few fighters seem to have the technique to do that today.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 13 Jun 2007, 11:56

Also, having a tight guard does not mean having to fight like a statue

Thats why I said for some.

Every fighter has an innate amount of speed and reflexes, these can be trained, but cannot turn a rocky marciano type into an Ali.

Training is about teaching a fighter to use their strengths. Timing can replace speed, and even if your opponent is quicker, you can time them and hit and hurt them.

True due to genetics a Marciano wouldn't become an Ali and plus their Individuals, speed and relflexes can be Improved still.

I agree to teach the fighter to use their strengths but to also for the fighter to evolve their style through themselves as well.

Calzaghe's style started from a bad wrist Injury he got as an amatuer.

G-man · Post by **G-man** » 13 Jun 2007, 12:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The problem with styles like Witter's and Calzaghes, is they rely on speed and reflexes, something not every fighter has. They are also quite demanding physically as they rely on movement rather than an orthodox guard.

At the end of the day, learning to fight out of a tight guard whilst still being able to continue punching is the most efficient way to fight, and when the reflexes start to go, an orthodox defence will still be executable.

Calzaghe's own offence is his defence to a large extent, he throws so many shots it is hard for his opponents to get off, and his movement makes it hard to draw a bead on him.

Witter's workrate however is pretty low these days, and he is winning fights by frustrating his opponents rather than overwhelming them.

Calzaghe can at least force a fight though - Witter is clueless at pressing a fight or opening someone up who doesn't 'walk' onto his shots - see Kotelnik and to a lesser extent Lynes.