Heavyweights: Riddick Bowe vs George Foreman

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 25 May 2007, 14:32

The Riddick Bowe that fought magnificently against Evander Holyfield in the first fight in 1992 vs the George Foreman that destroyed Joe Frazier and Ken Norton in 2 rounds...who wins?

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 25 May 2007, 14:34

Foreman KO 2

cultus · Post by **cultus** » 25 May 2007, 16:23

The Great John L wrote:Foreman KO 2

Riddick Bowe was bigger, longer, stronger and much more skilled.. no way Foreman beats him. Too slow and easy to hit AND Riddick had enough power to make Foreman think twice.

by the way .. KO 2 is a absolutely laughable pick.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 25 May 2007, 16:46

Foreman was a destroyer in the early 70s, and Bowes defence was never his strong point...........so Foreman by KO isnt unlikely

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 25 May 2007, 17:35

cultus wrote:
The Great John L wrote:Foreman KO 2
Riddick Bowe was bigger, longer, stronger and much more skilled.. no way Foreman beats him. Too slow and easy to hit AND Riddick had enough power to make Foreman think twice.

by the way .. KO 2 is a absolutely laughable pick.

Joe Frazier and Ken Norton were both better fighters than Bowe, who had a very poor defense. Your entitled to your opinion, but at least George fought more than one world class opponent during his career, unlike the somewhat timid Bowe. Bowe may have lasted longer, but he would have been stomped.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 25 May 2007, 23:30

Here's the way the Univac called it tonight.....Not far from what I would have suspected.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 31 May 2007, 03:09

I like Foreman by stoppage in three to six rounds. Bowe's size and speed would present some problems for George, but ultimately, Bowe was a free-swinger without a very sound defense, and he wasn't on Foreman's level in either power or durability.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 31 May 2007, 13:35

Foreman by SD. If we're going with the Bowe who fought Holyfield, Bowe might not get tired as fast, but he'll get hit and if he can't put down Evander he's not going to put down Big George. George was a natural Heavyweight with a real Heavyweight punch.

Haglerfan · Post by **Haglerfan** » 11 Jun 2007, 17:11

A prime Foreman would destroy Bowe in 5 or less. Put the brain of 40+ George in the body of 25 year old George and no fighter could survive against him.

markl · Post by **markl** » 13 Jun 2007, 17:39

Bowe by mid round stoppage. Foreman is the one guy who is hard to rank because he never had an in ring prime.

I would pick Old George over young George, yet young George would give other greats more trouble.

Bowe was easily a top 10 talent. He had better technique, chin, infighting and stamina then Foreman.

George would have a chance to rub out anybody. But 7 times out of 10 Bowe gets the job done here with superior in fighting.

theone · Post by **theone** » 13 Jun 2007, 17:47

Young Foreman would starch Bowe in less than 5 rounds. Young Foreman would destroy old Foreman even easier. The way he looked after the Steward fight would seem downright pretty in comparison.

Oh yeah, Bowe out points old Foreman fairly easy with the exception of a few scary moments.

markl · Post by **markl** » 13 Jun 2007, 17:51

Bowe did not have a china chin and hit harder then Ron Lyle. The only great fighter Foreman beat was Frazier and he was just taylor made for George.

Riddick was a bigger man and would land more often. George gasses and gets stopped.

Old George had a chin of steel. Yeah, his faced would get battered for 4 or 5 rounds and then young George would be finished.

Like I said he could catch him, but more often then not Bowe would make it through the rough early part and stop George.

The Holyfield Bowe beat would have worn out young george.

theone · Post by **theone** » 13 Jun 2007, 18:09

Bowe did not have a china chin and hit harder then Ron Lyle. The only great fighter Foreman beat was Frazier and he was just taylor made for George.

You dont have to have a china chin to get ko'd by Foreman. And what makes you think he hit harder than Lyle?

Riddick was a bigger man and would land more often. George gasses and gets stopped.

Bowe had all sorts of trouble with the MUCH smaller Holyfield who stood toe to toe with him for extended periods of time during all three of their fights. Foreman hits a hell of alot harder than Holyfield and had just as good a chin.

The Holyfield Bowe beat would have worn out young george.

Bowe was no Ali and didn't fight like Young, the only two fights where Foreman's stamina cost him. Also how well do you think Bowe could've preformed in the temperature both those fights were fought in?

markl · Post by **markl** » 14 Jun 2007, 12:29

Foreman gassed in far more fights then that. He was exhausted against Lyle, peralta. Any fight that went past 4 or 5 rounds.

Bowe would not have beat Ali if that is what you're asking me. Young Foreman's chin isn't close to Evander's. And I don't see the relevance in comparing a clubbing slugger to a technically sound combination puncher.

Bowe was the bigger man in this fight. George wouldn't push him around. And Riddick would outfight him on the inside. Foreman's brute power always gives him a chance. But he has to be the underdog here

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 15 Jun 2007, 14:41

I have supported Bowe a lot on other threads because I think he gets a lot of undue criticism. However, I can't pick him in this fight.

The stamina issue is overblown. Foreman did have stamina problems in the Ali fight, but it was extremely hot and he threw a lot of punches.
Yes he was tired against Lyle, but that was an extremely rare fight with two heavyweights throwing bombs against each other.

The amount of rounds fought can be deceiving. The pace of the fight, the punishment taken and the heat have to be taken into consideration. The 8 rounds Foreman fought against Ali and the 5 against Lyle took more out him than most 12 round fights take out of person.

Foreman didn't get tired against Peralta. He fought at a slower pace and did what he had to do to win even though it wasn't as exciting as many of his other fights.

Bowe was as tough as nails, but he is going to get stopped in this one. There would be probably be some fireworks but Foreman was just too much of a force of nature. Foreman wins this by a Ko in the middle rounds.

For what it's worth, Old George gets destroyed by Bowe. George was smart enough to realize this and wanted no part of Bowe. This fight would of course prove nothing, it would be like Louis-Marciano,Tyson-Holmes etc.

theone · Post by **theone** » 15 Jun 2007, 17:20

Foreman gassed in far more fights then that. He was exhausted against Lyle, peralta. Any fight that went past 4 or 5 rounds.

Like Alp said, i think in the Lyle fight Foreman's condition had more to do with him being dazed from Lyle's flush shots then being gassed. Foreman was still able to turn on the pressure when he had to in that fight. It wouldn't really be right for me to comment on the Peralta fights since I only saw the first one and it was some time ago.

Young Foreman's chin isn't close to Evander's. And I don't see the relevance in comparing a clubbing slugger to a technically sound combination puncher.

I believe Young George's chin was at the very least, as good as Holyfield. The absolutely flush number of shots Lyle landed cleanly could attest to that.

Bowe was the bigger man in this fight. George wouldn't push him around. And Riddick would outfight him on the inside. Foreman's brute power always gives him a chance. But he has to be the underdog here

Bowe was taller and heavier than prime Foreman, but i don't believe he was as strong as him. George I believe would have the slight reach advantage.
Now I've stated in the past that its too much of a stretch to assume that if Marciano, Dempsey or some of the undersized Heavyweights of the past added extra weight they could still perform at optimum efficiency.
I have a hard time picturing someone like Marciano with his type of build and frame being able to successful pack on 15 to 20 pounds without losing effectiveness or accentuating his shortcomings. Holyfield on the other hand had the perfect body type and style to support it.
However i don't think it would be a stretch at all to picture Foreman, for a fight with a guy Bowe's size, packing on extra muscle for the fight.

With all that said, I believe even without weighing more than 220 or 225, that Foreman, with his strength, power, and ramrod jab, (that would trouble Bowe even more than Golota's did) would still be too much for Big Daddy.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 17 Jun 2007, 08:25

That Bowe from 92 was one hell of a fighter. One big big hell of a fighter and would give any champ thru history a great fight. He had speed, stamina, a chin and a heavy enough shot to earn respect. He was very efficient in close for such a big man. Could he take Foreman's clouts and could Foreman take his. Bowe has the advantage in speed and accuracy. So I think Bowe gets to land first but George had a great chin and eventually he too lands as Big Daddy was no defensive wizard. This is a real tough one to pick but I go with a clever powerful Foreman. If he doesn't rush it, I think he can do it. His stamina issues were due to his eagerness to throw every punch with bad intent

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 17 Jun 2007, 10:37

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 17 Jun 2007, 22:45

DaveV17 wrote:At their best, I would pick the faster, better skilled, sharp punching, 6-5, 230 pound Bowe over the slower, wide swinging 6-3, 217 pound Foreman. Bowe might take him early as Foreman was not hard to hit, but anytime after 3-4 rounds Foreman would gas and Bowe could pick him apart both inside and out. Bowe is just a bigger, faster, more skilled fighter.

The problem with Foreman is that a lot of people want to combine the patient, older, relaxed Foreman who did have decent stamina with the wild swinging, tense, young Foreman who did not have good stamina. If the best traits of the young and old Foreman could be combined, he would be an all around fighter. But, Foreman never combined the best traits of his first and second careers while he was fighting.

Besides Holyfield I, Bowe's stamina WAS NOT impressive. Whereas, in Peralta I and several other fights, Foreman kept up a RIDICULOUS pace for a HW and still remained strong in the later rounds. I don't even see Bowe having much of a stamina advantage here. I also don't see Bowe as being any faster or more athletic. Foreman in Norton and Frazier II displayed very good speed and reflexes for such a big guy.

Foreman by KO round 6. Maybe earlier. Bowe's defense was just crappy.

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 18 Jun 2007, 10:59

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 18 Jun 2007, 14:54

Well, that is one spin you can make on Foreman's knockout against Frazier.
Or more accurately, you could say that it was the most devastating humiliation of a great heavyweight champion in the history of the sport.

Foreman beat a "scared" Ken Norton? Another interesting spin.
More accurately, you could also say that Norton was a lot more impressive than any of Bowe's knockouts.

What would Bowe do to make Foreman have a size disadvantage?
Foreman actually had a longer reach and Bowe only had a small advantage in height. Bowe weighed more but certainly wasn't as strong.
Bowe was a hard puncher but he wasn't in Foreman's league.

Neither would have a major advantage defensively, or punching acurracy.
This is simply go to go down to Foreman being able to handle Bowe's power better than Bowe would handler Foreman's.

Bowe isn't going to be able to outbox Foreman for long without getting nailed. When he did, he would be stopped.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 18 Jun 2007, 15:25

I agree that it comes down to who handles the punch better and both had very good chins. Bowe ahd a helluva right cross with speed and snap. Foreman we all know hit like a truck. I think Foreman possibly takes a better shot and ends up nailing Bowe for a TKO....

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 18 Jun 2007, 16:05

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 18 Jun 2007, 16:16

DaveV17 wrote:Ambling Alp, I seriously doubt that Foreman had a reach advantage over Bowe. IMO, reach numbers in boxers mean nothing, but people like to use them. They (reach numbers) even change from fight to fight for the same boxer. Bowe was taller than Foreman and bigger and probably had a longer reach too, but what difference does that make? Foreman swung wide, he left himself open, and Bowe was a very good technician in the ring. I could see Bowe winning over Foreman pretty easily both inside and outside. I would sure bet on Bowe if it was possible for them to fight.

For anyone who believe reach numbers, watch Liston and Cleveland Williams in the first fight. Williams has an obvious reach advantage over Liston and the commentator mentions that Williams has a longer reach. Yet, Liston's reach is listed at 84". Liston was only about 6' tall and his arms didn't hang to the ground so it is doubtful that he had the reach of a 7' man. By the way, I read recently that Ali's reach was measured on television and it was 78". Ali had long arms, he was about 6-3, so that measurement can probably be used to gauge the arm span of other fighters.

Foreman was a shade under 6'4 and Bowe was 6'5. Bowe at his best was around 230, Foreman anywhere from 218-225. This great size advantage you speak of just isn't there, and yes Liston had tremondously long arms for a guy about 6'1. Foreman swung wide but it's not like he did that with every shot . . look at round 1 of Bowe-Holyfield II and you'll see Bowe just as wild.

Norton was scared? He was fighting pretty well until he got his clock cleaned, that's a myth.

You're bringing up the 5 fight exhbition . . .can I then bring up Bowe's fights with Golota?

Foreman was the much stronger, harder hitter, with the better jab and better body attack. You cite the Lyle fight . . .at least Foreman didn't avoid big punchers his whole career. All we got from Bowe was Herbie glass jawed Hide . . .I reckon Bowe would have been visiting the canvas as well vs Ron Lyle, but maybe not gotten up.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 18 Jun 2007, 16:31

My point about Foreman and Bowe is that Bowe really didn't have a size advantage that would help him win the fight. Sure it's possible that the measurements are slightly off; of course maybe Foreman had more than an inch advantage.

Bowe was a talented fighter and would be able to hit Foreman. However, Foreman was an accurate puncher himself and would have little trouble hitting Bowe either. It would simply go down to who could who take whose punch better. The answer is that Foreman could take Bowe's punches far better than Bowe could take Foreman's.

As for Liston, I don't recall an announcer saying that but he was wrong if he did. Liston had extremely long arms for a man of his height.

I don't think that you can automatically say that if a guy is 6'3 he will have a 78 inch reach because Ali did. It will usually be close but not all of the time.

btw, if you aren't going to believe the tape measure, do you believe the weights given from scales, which are obviously less accurate?