Frankly Speaking.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 20 Jun 2007, 10:24

Most of those guys wouldn't be able to fight under the auspices of amateur boxing as they are over 35!

Kevin Evans also beat Darren Morgan 2 years on the trot and also beat John Smith one year but it is a fair point, as he beat novices too.

However on club shows fighters are matched pretty well, any normal coach would not accept a mismatch, it's not like you are being paid for it.

It is only in the championships that there are sometimes mismatches as fighters are chucked in for the experience but they are often pulled out very quickly if they are fighting a quality fighter or don't take the contest at all.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Jun 2007, 11:08

Coco wrote:Most of those guys wouldn't be able to fight under the auspices of amateur boxing as they are over 35!

Kevin Evans also beat Darren Morgan 2 years on the trot and also beat John Smith one year but it is a fair point, as he beat novices too.

However on club shows fighters are matched pretty well, any normal coach would not accept a mismatch, it's not like you are being paid for it.

It is only in the championships that there are sometimes mismatches as fighters are chucked in for the experience but they are often pulled out very quickly if they are fighting a quality fighter or don't take the contest at all.

Oh yes, I agree with most of what you say. I am sure most coaches would have said that Cracknell was not ready. However, there are differering degrees of ready and coaches can fabrigate especially if there is a home show or a fighter lacking in confidence is concerned. Its not often you see the opposition coach come to the gym and see the opponent train. One guy who was training with me was training once a week for 2-3 years in the gym and training hard at home. He was sparring well with a Welsh ABA runner up but due to commitments elsewhere struggled to get a debut amateur fight. Now, I don't know how the fight went (he won, but I didn't see if it was a mismatch) - but I know he fought a fellow debutant and there is NO WAY the guy I knew should have been classed as a Novice.

Although yes, a ref or coach will soon stop the fight if a mismatch takes place... but they do happen and its pretty common in my limited experience.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 20 Jun 2007, 12:44

jamesmcdonnell wrote:So what if Warren started in unlicensed shows? Unlicensed just means not sanctioned by the BBBofC.

As I recall Warren was blackballed by the BBBofC who at that time had rather cosy arrangements with certain other promoters of the time. Said promoters did everything they could to ensure that Warren could not get a promoters license, and so Warren put on unlicensed shows and eventually the BBBofC were forced to accept his calls for a license.

I'm no Warren cheerleader, but from people I know who follow the unlicensed scene, there are plenty of well organised promotions, with proper ambulance crews on call etc.

If someone cannot get a license from the BBBofC, you cannot blame them in those days getting in via the back door.

Considering some of the diabolical mismatches the BBBofC have allowed in recent times, I don't really see them as being whiter than white.

exactly - there are doctors and all the trappings at unlicensed shows... I have attended several.... the difference between Warrens and Mortlocks shows and this 'charity' fight is very wide indeed...

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 20 Jun 2007, 17:51

Here's Cracknell going through a different type of pain -- this time with his old mucker Pinsent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbuESIPF ... ed&search=

Bit off topic, but it's worth a watch for anyone who's ever seen these Gym rowing machine halls of fame.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 21 Jun 2007, 05:33

jamesmcdonnell wrote:So what if Warren started in unlicensed shows? Unlicensed just means not sanctioned by the BBBofC.

As I recall Warren was blackballed by the BBBofC who at that time had rather cosy arrangements with certain other promoters of the time. Said promoters did everything they could to ensure that Warren could not get a promoters license, and so Warren put on unlicensed shows and eventually the BBBofC were forced to accept his calls for a license.

I'm no Warren cheerleader, but from people I know who follow the unlicensed scene, there are plenty of well organised promotions, with proper ambulance crews on call etc.

If someone cannot get a license from the BBBofC, you cannot blame them in those days getting in via the back door.

Considering some of the diabolical mismatches the BBBofC have allowed in recent times, I don't really see them as being whiter than white.

Tell me something I didn't know James.

People like Warren who actively seeked to promote unlicencesd shouldn't knock Cracknell getting an ass whopping on an unlicensed show.

It's a simple point - By the way your signed Frank Warrén photo is in the post

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 21 Jun 2007, 09:53

The fact is that Cracknell, I believe, wasn't on an unlicensed show, I believe it was endorsed by the ABA. Cracknell wouldn't have been manhandled up, without any Paramedic in sight and not taken to Hospital if he had been on an 'unlicensed' show.

The 'holier than thou' ABA allow this to go on and ultimately the higher profile Professional side of the sport sweeps up the mess afterwards.

I am sure the 'Sparks' Charity could have had funds raised for them by some sort of Celebrity Rowing event as oppose to seeing someone very nearly badly hurt.

The other Guy was a reasonably competant fightyer, at that level, whereas Cracknell was clueless and was up shit creek without a paddle from the off, if you excuse the pun.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Jun 2007, 09:58

Twinkle Toes wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:So what if Warren started in unlicensed shows? Unlicensed just means not sanctioned by the BBBofC.

As I recall Warren was blackballed by the BBBofC who at that time had rather cosy arrangements with certain other promoters of the time. Said promoters did everything they could to ensure that Warren could not get a promoters license, and so Warren put on unlicensed shows and eventually the BBBofC were forced to accept his calls for a license.

I'm no Warren cheerleader, but from people I know who follow the unlicensed scene, there are plenty of well organised promotions, with proper ambulance crews on call etc.

If someone cannot get a license from the BBBofC, you cannot blame them in those days getting in via the back door.

Considering some of the diabolical mismatches the BBBofC have allowed in recent times, I don't really see them as being whiter than white.
Tell me something I didn't know James.

People like Warren who actively seeked to promote unlicencesd shouldn't knock Cracknell getting an ass whopping on an unlicensed show.

It's a simple point - By the way your signed Frank Warrén photo is in the post

It is a simple point yes, but an incorrect one. The issue is not licensed or unlicensed, it's safe, or not safe. Having two big lumps with minimal boxing experience lumping the shit out of each other at a charity boxing match, is not safe. Especially if one of them is killing themselves to make weight, in what is, after all, a heavyweight contest!

BTW, boxingchat, can you get my signed photo made out to "My old mucker...James, all the best Frank?"