Did Nigel Benn Ruin British Boxing

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 20 Jun 2007, 14:45

Contravercial I know but I was recently watching an old fight of Benn's in which the commontator critisised the BBBoC for not sanctioning WBO fights in the UK.

Did Benn and Eubank fighting for that title start the slide toward meaningless fights for nothing titles.

Dirk Kelly · Post by **Dirk Kelly** » 20 Jun 2007, 14:52

I wouldn't have thought you could blame them, the pair of them gave us some brilliant scraps over the years and at least domistically fought everyone.

Perhaps the blame lies with promoters, managers and I suppose the certain type of fighter who uses the WBO belt to rack up defence after defence against weak opposition.

Then perhaps we have to blame ourselves - how many of us tuned in to watch or pay to go see Enzo vs. Gunn which was a total mis match and as you say a meaningless title fight.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 20 Jun 2007, 15:10

I watched Gunn Enzo because I will watch any boxing I can but I am not of the illusion that it is a title fight. My problem really was that the interests of the sport and its credibility which it would appear at the time the BBBoC tried to defend were subjigated for the promotion of one british boxer (well two including eubank) but had that not happened maybe there wouldn't be title alfabet soupe as British fighters are among the worst for holding on to them.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 20 Jun 2007, 15:48

Benn was one of the best British fighters of all time. He was fearless.

He was happy to go to America and beat two of their best, De Witt and Barkley.

He was fantastic for British boxing, and if you look at three of our best fighters of modern times - Naz, JC and Eubank - they go hand in hand with the WBO.

The WBU is another matter.....

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 20 Jun 2007, 15:55

THe problem is that we never saw the potencial of some of these fighters particularly JC because he was never fighting for a title which made him take meaningful defences.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 20 Jun 2007, 16:02

That's a fair point, but when you look at the other champs in the super middleweight division over the last 5-10 years, none of them did either.

Mundine, Ottke, Beyer, Catley, Reid, Woodhall, Kessler et al.......any of these Hall of Famers? Nope.....

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 20 Jun 2007, 16:46

Thomas Hearns had a lot to do with the WBO getting started also. His fight with James Kinchen for the WBO Super Middle 'Title' got publicity here because he was going for a 'title' in a fifth weight division and was live on ITV. Not long after, British promoters saw that they con the public into thinking they were watching a real title fight without having to expose their fighter to actually facing a top 3 opponent.

Since then in British boxing on the world scene It's been largely bogus champions with hand picked defences and soft mandatories ever since , with some honourable exceptions. I've got a lot more respect for David Haye who is actually challenging the best at his weight than I have for Enzo(who I do like), who is a paper champion.

I've got a question for you guys,outside of Hamed and Calzaghe, have there ever been any British WBO Champions who were the best in the world at their weight? I can't think of any.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 20 Jun 2007, 17:59

There are a variety of reasons for boxing's sharp decline -- and they are the same on both sides of the Atlantic.

Key to the this decline is all alphabet organisations, not just the WBO -- although they are clearly the worst of the big four.

Until these corrupt, lecherous parasites are driven from our sport, it will find a recovery impossible.

STP · Post by **STP** » 20 Jun 2007, 19:01

Don't be silly.

Nigel says "if you want a proper world title, you fight for the WBC, WBA or IBF". He was the one saying Eubank held the paper crown and that he went and got himself a 'proper' title to demand the most money in the rematch and come out second because King and American TV were only interested in the BC.

It was Arum who got Benn his WBO fight. Arum was the only guy in boxing trying to big up the WBO. Mendy and Benn saw it as a tool to get to Hearns, Leonard etc. He was originally supposed to be fighting Duran for the WBC, but Roberto didn't meet the deadline and was stripped.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 20 Jun 2007, 20:37

OMG!! The question should be 'Did Nigel Benn SAVE British boxing'! When Nige fought for that belt it was an unknown, but was originally made to be thee title due to the arguments over the other three.. but then all the WBO belts ended up britain (due to Eubank hogging it and Warren getting one for Mcmillan) and america gave up on them..

Flump wrote: I've got a question for you guys,outside of Hamed and Calzaghe, have there ever been any British WBO Champions who were the best in the world at their weight?

Eubank was the no.1. super middle in The Ring (champion spot vacant) until James Toneys breathtakingly brilliant performance against Barkley..

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 21 Jun 2007, 04:39

verballistic wrote:
Flump wrote:Thomas Hearns had a lot to do with the WBO getting started also. His fight with James Kinchen for the WBO Super Middle 'Title' got publicity here because he was going for a 'title' in a fifth weight division and was live on ITV. Not long after, British promoters saw that they con the public into thinking they were watching a real title fight without having to expose their fighter to actually facing a top 3 opponent.

Since then in British boxing on the world scene It's been largely bogus champions with hand picked defences and soft mandatories ever since , with some honourable exceptions. I've got a lot more respect for David Haye who is actually challenging the best at his weight than I have for Enzo(who I do like), who is a paper champion.

I've got a question for you guys,outside of Hamed and Calzaghe, have there ever been any British WBO Champions who were the best in the world at their weight? I can't think of any.
tommy hearns "5th title" vs kinchen wasnt that highly regarded in the usa, since most hearns fans knew it was nothing special...the most enduring value of the hitman's labored, disputed win over B-fighter kinchen was that it gave ray leonard the inaccurate picture that hearns was completely shot!! hearns had been lobbying for a rematch since his 1981 loss to SRL, but it was not until hearns looked spent vs kinchen that SRL gave tommy the coveted rematch and allowed tommy to gain his "revenge"---tho the "official" decision was a draw the public knew hearns won the rematch and even leonard later admitted that tommy should have gotten the decision!! for those who question the fact that SRL delayed the hearns rematch for 8 years, exhibit B is roberto duran...altho robert gave SRL an IMMEDIATE rematch 4 months after duran beat him, SRL waited 10+ years to give duran the rubber match, by which time he was LONG PAST WASHED-UP!!

I have to say Verbal that I totally agree on Leonard's reasons for finally granting rematches. I thought Hearns was finished and that Leonard would just mop him up, that history would show another victory for Ray and the real story would be lost. It was a really great surprise when Tommy turned up and showed he still had enough to win the fight on many cards.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 21 Jun 2007, 04:50

The alphabet floodgates would have opened at some point sooner or later, regardless of who the beltholders were. In fact, I'd argue it was Johnny Nelson and his first WBF belt which really kicked down the door. To me, the WBO is not the best world title but it does at least (usually) suggest at least fringe world class combatants. The WBF and its peers which followed after the BBBC allowed them in are more often than not a long way from world class and it is these organisations which really did the damage in the late 90s/early 00s.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 21 Jun 2007, 04:58

Who is to blame though:

The bodies for exploiting the niche.

The promoters for exploiting the fans.

The networks for showcasing third grade product.

The fans for buying tickets to world-title fights they know are spurious.

The fighters for taking easy money over stiffer comp.

The BBBofC for permitting the entry of these new bodies.

The BBBofC for allowing promoters to be managers, facilitating soft matchmaking and poor under-cards.

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 21 Jun 2007, 05:20

it is to ricky hatton's credit that since ditching the laughable WBU belt years ago he has fought ONLY FOR TITLES OF WBC, IBF, WBA AND I THINK HISTORY WILL JUDGE HIM THE BETTER FOR IT!!

[/b]

Err....what title is he fighting for this weekend after ditching the IBF (Twice) and WBA?

In fact, Ricky Hatton could go down as the only fighter in history to never actually defend a so-called 'World title' other than the WBU of course which made him very rich.

He dodges mandatory chellengers like a soldier dodges bullets. Perhaps History WILL judge him on that. There is a reason he likes WBU and IBO titles MONEY AND NO MANDATORIES. Good Job Tszyu didn't share the same agenda.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 21 Jun 2007, 06:03

boxingchat wrote:He dodges mandatory chellengers like a soldier dodges bullets.

I'm sure I speak for every single member of the boxing community when I say I'd much rather he was fighting Lovemore Ndou than Jose Luis Castillo on Saturday.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 21 Jun 2007, 06:07

Once again I'm getting these thoughts of pot and kettle when you start talking mandatories.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 21 Jun 2007, 06:10

Not to mention Rees' well deserved shot at WBA Champion Soulemanye M'Baye.

J · Post by J » 21 Jun 2007, 06:49

boxingchat wrote:it is to ricky hatton's credit that since ditching the laughable WBU belt years ago he has fought ONLY FOR TITLES OF WBC, IBF, WBA AND I THINK HISTORY WILL JUDGE HIM THE BETTER FOR IT!! [/b]

Err....what title is he fighting for this weekend after ditching the IBF (Twice) and WBA?

In fact, Ricky Hatton could go down as the only fighter in history to never actually defend a so-called 'World title' other than the WBU of course which made him very rich.

He dodges mandatory chellengers like a soldier dodges bullets. Perhaps History WILL judge him on that. There is a reason he likes WBU and IBO titles MONEY AND NO MANDATORIES. Good Job Tszyu didn't share the same agenda.

DEAR OH DEAR MORE SHIT FROM THE KING OF FISTIC FAECES.

he defended his IBF title he won agianst Zoo against Maussa you plonker.

If yuo are gonna cast aspertions at least make sure they are factual .

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Jun 2007, 07:39

So I guess the same applies to Calzaghe who ditched his IBF belt, after years of defending his WBO title whenever he could be bothered.

funso banjo baby · Post by **funso banjo baby** » 21 Jun 2007, 08:56

its up to the public to decide which fight is worth paying to see simple as that

and Benn was a force of nature (to nick someone's saying) who we would have watched fight anywhere...with anyone..at anytime

we all piled into a tent in finsbury park, for crying out loud

GOlden days

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 21 Jun 2007, 12:40

J wrote:
boxingchat wrote:it is to ricky hatton's credit that since ditching the laughable WBU belt years ago he has fought ONLY FOR TITLES OF WBC, IBF, WBA AND I THINK HISTORY WILL JUDGE HIM THE BETTER FOR IT!! [/b]

Err....what title is he fighting for this weekend after ditching the IBF (Twice) and WBA?

In fact, Ricky Hatton could go down as the only fighter in history to never actually defend a so-called 'World title' other than the WBU of course which made him very rich.

He dodges mandatory chellengers like a soldier dodges bullets. Perhaps History WILL judge him on that. There is a reason he likes WBU and IBO titles MONEY AND NO MANDATORIES. Good Job Tszyu didn't share the same agenda.
DEAR OH DEAR MORE SHIT FROM THE KING OF FISTIC FAECES.

he defended his IBF title he won agianst Zoo against Maussa you plonker.

If yuo are gonna cast aspertions at least make sure they are factual .

Do you mean 'against Tszyu' You're right and then he vacated it along with the WBA he won from Maussa so you get my point.

Still the IBO title will get him in the Hall of Fame won't it? The IBO remember was founded from the former partner in the WBU?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Jun 2007, 12:52

Well, as you yourself have quoth ad nauseum BC, 'fighter make the belts, not the other way around.'

You cannae have it both ways mate. Admittedly Hatton ain't looked great since beating Tszyu, but if he beats Castillo, then it's hard to fault him.