Middleweights: Benny Briscoe vs James Toney

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 18 Jun 2007, 08:16

Two of boxing bad boys. Who wins? Bad Benny or Bad Lights Out Toney?

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » 18 Jun 2007, 09:45

Bad Bennie IMO.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 18 Jun 2007, 11:03

Toney on points, if hes in condition for the fight

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 18 Jun 2007, 11:16

While I think Toney was much more skilled than Briscoe, I also think that he wasn’t at his best at 160 because he wasn’t comfortable making that weight. It’s hard to make weight when you naturally want to train at Pizza Hut.

If Toney had to make weight the day of the fight, he would probably get stopped. I think even if they weighed in the day before the fight, Briscoe could have beaten Toney at 160, although he probably couldn’t have stopped the 200 lb Toney that entered the ring.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 18 Jun 2007, 14:07

The press conference for this one might have been fun. Would even James Toney dare to spout his trash talk to Bad Bennie Briscoe?

Part of me thinks stylewise Toney is all wrong for Briscoe. Toney as we know is a very clever fighter with good defence, fast hands and clever with the counter shots and Briscoe wasn't the fastest of fighters.

However at 160lbs Toney was a strange fighter with a history of weight problems. If he entered the ring weight drained against Briscoe he would be in trouble, over 15 rounds could 'Lights Out' survive against the relentless, ultra tough Briscoe walking him down, whilst having his mid-section and kidneys constantly pounded by Briscoes savage left hook?

I doubt it. The Briscoe how gave Monzon a hell of a fight would dish out too much heat over 15 bruising rounds for a weight weakened Toney.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 18 Jun 2007, 16:20

It sounds like Briscoe's "bad" rep went beyond the ring? What was he like out of the ring? Any good anecdotes about him?

Alabama_Man · Post by **Alabama_Man** » 18 Jun 2007, 20:54

I'm assuming this is based on prime conditions not if "Toney is weight drained."

If that's the case Toney would beat Briscoe by a wide spread. Toney is simply better.

theone · Post by **theone** » 18 Jun 2007, 22:03

I'm assuming this is based on prime conditions not if "Toney is weight drained."

Yeah, I always thought thats how you're supposed judge the mythical matchups, both fighters at their optimum conditioning.

If that's the case Toney would beat Briscoe by a wide spread. Toney is simply better.

Agreed. I think people are going a bit overboard with Briscoe here. Yes he was tough, rough and if you fought him more than likely your done. But Bennie was highly susceptible to getting out boxed. he was out boxed by lesser fighters than Toney, whose sturdy chin and great defense would help him weather the Briscoe storm.

Toney UD.

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 19 Jun 2007, 01:18

If both fighters are at their best I pick toney.. by Close UD.. I just think Toneys defense is too good for Briscoe to put any kind of consistent offense together his chin is good enough to take the shots when he has too...

Alabama_Man · Post by **Alabama_Man** » 19 Jun 2007, 02:22

Decagon wrote:My odds:
James Toney -185

Bennie Briscoe +160

Toney by KO, TKO or DQ: +350

Toney by Decision: +120

Briscoe by KO, TKO or DQ: +450

Briscoe by Decision: +210

Over 13.5 Rounds: -210

Under 13.5 Rounds: +190

Draw: +2000
You have to wonder which James Toney will show up but on the other hand, Briscoe wasn't the model of consistency, and he didn't do particularly well against defensive-minded fighters like Toney. I'd probably have money on the over, and Toney by decision.

Horrible odds. This looks like it was generated from a bookie proggie without any human input. Complete shit.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Jun 2007, 06:59

Not enough money in it either way for you to offer up the $100.00?

Maybe you would prefer the odds on Lennox Lewis vs Willie Pep.

Alabama_Man · Post by **Alabama_Man** » 19 Jun 2007, 13:16

BoxBuzz wrote:Not enough money in it either way for you to offer up the $100.00?

Maybe you would prefer the odds on Lennox Lewis vs Willie Pep.

Briscoe was severely overrated.

You probably think he would win 5 rounds against Toney.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 19 Jun 2007, 13:22

theone wrote:Yeah, I always thought thats how you're supposed judge the mythical matchups, both fighters at their optimum conditioning.

The only realistic weight this match could be at is at Middleweight and was Toney ever in optimom condition at this weight?

Unless we are talking about putting a 160lbs Briscoe in with a 200lbs Toney?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Jun 2007, 21:01

This does not stretch the imagination......IMHO.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=

Luigi1985 · Post by **Luigi1985** » 22 Jun 2007, 06:57

Both fighters are IMO a bit overrated, especially Toney. In his prime as a MW, he lost normally to Tiberi, McCallum, Johnson, Sosa, Willis, etc., Bennie with his power and pressure would be able to get an UD against James... btw, if this fight would go 15 rounds, Toney would get KTFO later...

Briscoe UD Toney (7-5)

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 22 Jun 2007, 07:57

BoxBuzz wrote:This does not stretch the imagination......IMHO.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=

Hmmmm. I could accept Toney winning, but dropping Briscoe severalt times and stopping him seems like a stretch.

BB, how about that Charles-Holyfield sim?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 22 Jun 2007, 08:55

The Great John L wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:This does not stretch the imagination......IMHO.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=
Hmmmm. I could accept Toney winning, but dropping Briscoe severalt times and stopping him seems like a stretch.

BB, how about that Charles-Holyfield sim?

Well the sim has Toney as bit bigger fighter at his peak so that's why I can accept the outcome. Middle vs Middle I lean to Bennie or a SD.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 23 Jun 2007, 23:12

Decagon wrote:Is Toney at 190 or something?

Briscoe is listed as middle
Toney as super middle.....not a great deal of difference but enough to give a tangible edge where it's close in most catagories.