The ATG Light-Heavyweight Tournament

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 26 Jun 2007, 00:45

BTW, all votes on this 'round' will be tallied also on Sunday.

Thanks Buzz, seems like Joey Maxim just barely edges the Irishman to go on into the next rounds; McTigue falls into the "F" category...

Votes so far on this 'round'...

4-3 Spinks over Tunney

6-1 Fitzsimmons over Mills, in the ATG battle of the Britons!

5-2 Jones over Foster

6-1 Conn over O'Brien

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 26 Jun 2007, 04:25

Tunney SD 15 Spinks

Very close and controversial.

Fitzsimmons KO 11 Mills

Fitz just a greater fighter and vicious puncher

Foster KO 11 Jones

Just about the worst style match up for Jones.

Conn WUD 15 O'Brien

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 26 Jun 2007, 09:08

Spinks Dec Tunney (Too bad this fight was so early. Two of the best lightheavyweights ever)

Fitzsimmons KO11 Mills
Foster KO8 Jones
Conn Dec O'Brien

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 26 Jun 2007, 09:16

It does seem strange that Spinks and Tunney are matched so early on. Either one could make the final.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 27 Jun 2007, 02:15

Votes so far...

5-4 Spinks over Tunney

8-1 Fitzsimmons over Mills

5-4 Jones over Foster

8-1 Conn over O'Brien

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My own personal predictions?

Spinks may have an impressive resume, but as a HW he was no better, in my mind, than Gene Tunney, who never lost the HW crown. Both men defeated old, over the hill guys in Dempsey and Holmes to get the HW crown, but at LHW they were marvelous---and in my opinion Tunney could have easily beaten the likes of Siki, McTigue, Berlenbach, etc had he not went to HW. Who wins? In my opinion, if you factor in both men at their primes, Spinks maybe the more harder hitter, but Tunney was the better man defensively---I think Tunney wins a split decision over Spinks.

Bob Fitzsimmons was arguably the greatest pound per pound fighter, being dominant into his 50's and being boxing's first triple crown campion, knocking out men as much as 100 pounds heavier than his own self. Mills is easily one of Britain's finer champions and reigned for a decent amount of time; but I see Fitzsimmons taking it to Mills and breaking down his defenses and stopping him in around 6 or 8 rounds.

Jones, for all intents and purposes, was one of the better men of our generation, but outside of facing John Ruiz, in arguably his only real risk in a career spanning over a decade, rarely fought anyone dangerous or who had a chance; Foster on the other hand, was the LHW divisions hardest puncher (outside of Spinks and arguably Irish Bob Murphy) and made a helluva lot of defenses over decent opposition. I see Foster winning a close decision over Jones, a knock down making a difference in a fight that had Jones being coy and content in back peddaling away from Foster.

Philadelphia Jack O'Brien is rather under-rated and sadly rarely mentioned, but he defeated some of the best MW's, LHW's and HW's of his time. How can you dismiss a man who went the distance in a NC against the legendary Jack Johnson or fought Tommy Burns three times going the distance or never lost his LHW title? Billy Conn for all intents and purposes is easily one of the top five LHW fighters of all time, though the bulk of his career was made at MW and WW and LW; best known for his first fight with Joe Louis, Conn was a tacticians dream, beating the likes of Budd Knox and other HW contenders...this be a close fight in my mind, a draw more than likely---but if I was to give it to any one man, I give it to O'Brien by split decision.

That makes the votes...

5-5 a DRAW between Tunney and Spinks

9-1 Fitzsimmons over Mills

5-5 a DRAW between Foster and Jones

8-2 Conn over O'Brien

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 27 Jun 2007, 04:25

Foster outpointing Jones? That's the most impossible result that can happen in this bout.

Minotauro · Post by **Minotauro** » 27 Jun 2007, 07:16

Gene Tunney UD12 Michael Spinks

Bob Fitzsimmons TKO11 Freddie Mills

Bob Foster KO9 Roy Jones, Jr

Billy Conn UD12 Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 27 Jun 2007, 07:17

If Antonio Tarver could do it twice, but was only given one decision win in a trilogy, I can see Foster pounding on Jones enough to hurt him, stall him, make him run away rather than be offensive. Plus I said a knockdown made the difference in the 'fight'. Foster being the aggressor through out, plus a KD makes him a decision winner in my mind. More than likely split decision.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 27 Jun 2007, 11:23

I'm surprised only 2 of us have picked O'Brien to beat Conn. I didn't expect a majority to pick him, but still thought he'd be picked by more. O'Brien was a fast, excellent technician and defensive fighter who gave a good account of himself against some much larger fighters.

As for the rest, I think RJJ would have his moments against Foster, but sooner or later he'd get hit with Bob's big right.

Tunney v Spinks look's awfully close, but in a real bout I think Tunney is just to slick a boxer. Michael Spinks was one of the best conditioned fighters of his day, and at LHW it was near impossible to hurt him, not to mention he was a pretty good puncher. If he had a weakness though it was his defense. He got outboxed by Eddie Davis over 12 rounds, was outboxed by Eddie Mustafa Muhammad for the first 6, and was beaten to the punch at times by Murray Sutherland. Tunney wouldn't be able to hurt Spinks, but in my opinion he wouldn't succomb to Spinks great conditioning either.

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 27 Jun 2007, 22:46

Yeah, right. How about we take Bob's loss to Ahumada and use that version of Foster to evaluate how this fight would go? I.e. Jones by 15-0 unanimous decision. This is completely foolish to take 34-35 years old Jones for this matchup.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 27 Jun 2007, 22:54

Foster broke his hand early in the bout with Ahumada and was practically a one armed fighter for most of the fight. Even then Ahumada fought cautiously instead of going all out on the attack. I guess he just had respect for Foster's power.

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 27 Jun 2007, 23:06

Jones fought 12 rounds with injured hand against the best middleweight of the last 20 years, and won between 8 and 12 rounds.
Excuses, excuses.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 28 Jun 2007, 01:02

I think the votes are now...

6-5 Foster over Jones

9-1 Fitzsimmons over Mills

6-5 Tunney over Spinks

9-2 Conn over O'Brien

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 30 Jun 2007, 09:46

This kind of thing can be fun. I would suggest that when announcing the next round, set a specific date and time when the voting will be over.
Also, the "draw" could be more fair. Spinks (who you could argue as the best lightheavyweight ever, certainly top 5) is out right away because he had to face Tunney in the first round. On the other hand, Maxim moves on because he only had to fight McTigue.
The "Top Dogs" i.e. Charles,Moore,Tunney,Foster,Spinks shouldn't be facing each other until the final rounds when they are the only ones left.

I hope people will vote with their brain and not with their heart.
Still, it's pretty fun and I hope people don't go crazy when they get outvoted and their favorites lose.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 30 Jun 2007, 20:43

Btw, this is the second round; and so far 16 names out of 20 ATG LHW's are in 'bouts'. And I said that every Sunday, the votes will be tallied and the winners move on to the next 'round', while the losers are placed into a specific category; the last round losers were placed into the "F" group, the next 'losers' will be placed into the "E" group, and etc.

And in the case of a 'draw', BoxBuzz will do a computer simulation, to 'break' the tie breaker, and that therefore will decide who moves on in the tournament (Maxim beat McTigue in the computer simulation via split decision, so Maxim went on in the tournament).

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 03 Jul 2007, 10:21

I guess I am confused.
Is this a single elimination tournament? If a guy loses and is moved to another group, is he still in the tournament?

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 16 Jul 2007, 14:11

Sorry I have been on hiatus, hopefully can get this tournament finished.

And, no Alp, when someone loses and is placed into a group, that is where they will stay; it is more or less like a ranking system of who is better than whom and what level of 'greatness' they are. But they are no longer in the tournament.

Foster, Fitzsimmons, Tunney, and Conn move on into the tournament; while Mills, Jones, Spinks, and O'Brien are now placed into the 'E' category.

The next round match-ups are:

Maxim vs. Foster

Tunney vs. Moore

Fitzsimmons vs. Conn

Charles vs. Rosenbloom

markl · Post by **markl** » 16 Jul 2007, 17:57

Foster ko 11
Tunney sd
Conn ud
Charles ud

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 16 Jul 2007, 19:47

Bob Foster WUD 15 Jimmy Bivins
Gene Tunney WUD 15 Archie Moore
Bob Fitzsimmons WUD 15 Billy Conn
Ezzard Charles WUD 15 Maxie Rosenbloom

Minotauro · Post by **Minotauro** » 17 Jul 2007, 13:02

Bivins UD 12 Foster

Moore UD 12 Tunney

Conn UD 12 Fitzsimmons

Charles UD 12 Rosenbloom

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 17 Jul 2007, 14:26

lol, i made a mistake peoples, it isn't Jimmy Bivins in the tournament, but Joey Maxim 8) sorry for the mistake.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 17 Jul 2007, 15:06

Bob Foster UD 15 Joey Maxim

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 17 Jul 2007, 16:48

HomicideHenry wrote:Sorry I have been on hiatus, hopefully can get this tournament finished.

And, no Alp, when someone loses and is placed into a group, that is where they will stay; it is more or less like a ranking system of who is better than whom and what level of 'greatness' they are. But they are no longer in the tournament.

Foster, Fitzsimmons, Tunney, and Conn move on into the tournament; while Mills, Jones, Spinks, and O'Brien are now placed into the 'E' category.

The next round match-ups are:

Bivins vs. Foster

Tunney vs. Moore

Fitzsimmons vs. Conn

Charles vs. Rosenbloom

Foster decisions Maxim, Moore decisions Tunney, I guess Conn beats Fitzsimmons by decision but I wouldn't be surprised either way, Charles decisions Rosenbloom.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 17 Jul 2007, 17:19

4-1 Foster over Maxim (one guy just voted on the foster-maxim fight so that makes it 5 votes)

2-2 DRAW between Moore and Tunney

3-1 Conn over Fitzsimmons

4-0 Charles over Rosenbloom

************************************************************

My personal predictions is that:

Foster knocks out Maxim in the later rounds, possibly the 12th

Tunney and Moore is extremely close, i'd vote a draw on that one

As much as I like Billy Conn, Fitzsimmons is easily the more successful fighter being on of the top 5 p4p greats of all time (in my opinion) and was far more successful than Conn at MW, LHW and HW---I go with Fitzsimmons to win by a knock out, somewhere around 12-13th round.

And I go with Charles winning a close but clear cut decision over Rosenbloom.

bringing the votes to...

5-1 Foster over Maxim
3-3 Moore against Tunney
3-2 Conn over Fitzsimmons
5-0 Charles over Rosenbloom

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 18 Jul 2007, 04:11

Foster UD
Moore SD
Conn UD
Charles UD