boxers who should have fought for the world title.

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 04 Jul 2007, 21:39

Andy Nance and Johnny Clark got me thinking, how many fighters
on the planet should have got a shot at the world title but didn't.
Here are three who retired while rated in the top 5 in the world

Agustin Senin, EBU bantamweight champion - Spain - 42-0-1 (21 KOs)

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=79869

Charkey Ramon, Commonwealth light middleweight champion - Australia -33-1-1 (21 KOs)

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=32032

Kiyoshi Tanabe, defeated reigning WBA world flyweight champion Horacio Accavallo in a non title fight in Tokyo in 1967 and retired after the fight with a record of 21-0-1 (5 KOs) Why the hell did he do that?

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=082013

Are there anymore of these 'uncrowned' champions?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Jul 2007, 22:00

Specer Oliver - In the top ten in most organisations an EBU champ going from strength to strength.

Kirk Laing should have had a shot after the Duran upset.

Johnny Armour was a long time undefeated EBU champion.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 04 Jul 2007, 22:48

Charley Burley deserved a shot.
He was a great fighter.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 04 Jul 2007, 23:29

stujones wrote:Specer Oliver - In the top ten in most organisations an EBU champ going from strength to strength.

Kirk Laing should have had a shot after the Duran upset.

Johnny Armour was a long time undefeated EBU champion.

According to Duff, Laing disappeared for several months after the Duran win. Mickey claims he had some good bouts offered to him on Laing's behalf but had no way of contacting him.

When he finally re-surfaced events had moved on. Laing needed money quickly and took a fight with the naturally bigger Fred Hutchings who was on a bit of a roll and Kirkland got a spanking.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 05 Jul 2007, 05:47

Laszlo Papp , undeafeted Pro, 3 time olympic champ. Enforced retirement by the Hungarian Government , when he was due to have a Title fight next.

The champ at the time was Joey Giardello, who was a good come foward boxer, but Papp would have stood a good chance of winning with his superior boxing skills.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=034798

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 05 Jul 2007, 06:07

Collins2000 wrote:
stujones wrote:Specer Oliver - In the top ten in most organisations an EBU champ going from strength to strength.

Kirk Laing should have had a shot after the Duran upset.

Johnny Armour was a long time undefeated EBU champion.
According to Duff, Laing disappeared for several months after the Duran win. Mickey claims he had some good bouts offered to him on Laing's behalf but had no way of contacting him.

When he finally re-surfaced events had moved on. Laing needed money quickly and took a fight with the naturally bigger Fred Hutchings who was on a bit of a roll and Kirkland got a spanking.

Yes, I've got the same story but from a different source. Kirkland would always dissapear after he got a nice payday, and resurface when he was completely skint.

I also heard that when Kirkland would do a runner, he was one of the only boxers who would get on the scales and come back lighter than when he was in training.

Kirkland it appears was sadly, fatally flawed.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 05 Jul 2007, 06:31

Charley Burley may have been the most avoided fighter of all time he tried to get a title shot from Welterweight to Light-Heavyweight but nobody would face him, he was too good for his own good. Even Ray Robinson was in no rush to fight him.

Remember we are talking about a guy who gave a prime Archie Moore a Boxing lesson.!!!!!!!

Eddie Booker was also another oustanding Middleweight who was avoided by the Champions of the time.

Going back even further in time the great Sam Langford who is still regarded may many as one of the greatest fighters of all time never got a shot at a World Title

Check out these guys records guys, they put to shame many fighters who were World Champions.

Others include Lloyd Marshall, Jack Chase, Sam McVey, Peter Jackson, Joe Jennette, Harry Mills, Jim Driscoll.

Boxing is full of GREAT fighters who never got a shot at the title for various reasons.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 05 Jul 2007, 06:51

Old bones Ian wrote:Laszlo Papp , undeafeted Pro, 3 time olympic champ. Enforced retirement by the Hungarian Government , when he was due to have a Title fight next.

The champ at the time was Joey Giardello, who was a good come foward boxer, but Papp would have stood a good chance of winning with his superior boxing skills.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=034798

Wasn't Papp's problem that he lived In a communist country?

BM said something about he wasn't allowed to make money In half In hour that It would take a humble worker 300 years to make.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jul 2007, 06:54

Sam Langford and Lazlo Papp are the two obvious ones globally IMO.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 05 Jul 2007, 07:37

Harry Wills beat black heavyweight from around 1913-1926, beat the great Sam Langford around 17 times, cleared out the whole division and was Dempseys number 1 contender from 1919-1926 unless I'm mistaken.

Sam McVey, Jeannete, Sam Langford all deserved title shots just before this period.

Modern guys - Ike Ibeauchi - would have been a danger to anyone.

Scrap · Post by **Scrap** » 05 Jul 2007, 10:33

When asked by a promoter if he would fight Burley, Robinsons reply was I thought you were my freind. When Ray was getting £ 12,500 a fight to fight Burley he wanted £50,000, killing the fight. He was never more than a welter always giving weight away.Archie Moore when asked who the best fighter he had fought said. I answer Marciano thats what people want to hear I was 40 and still gave him a good fight. The best fighter I boxed was Charly Burley he gave me a Boxing lesson.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 05 Jul 2007, 11:44

Another UK fighter that I am suprised nobody has mentioned is The Merthyr Marvel Eddie Thomas. He may not have been a great fighter but he was better than many a UK fighter that did get a World title shot. By all accounts Eddie Thomas had one of the finest left jabs around.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 05 Jul 2007, 12:02

Scrap wrote:When asked by a promoter if he would fight Burley, Robinsons reply was I thought you were my freind. When Ray was getting £ 12,500 a fight to fight Burley he wanted £50,000, killing the fight. He was never more than a welter always giving weight away.Archie Moore when asked who the best fighter he had fought said. I answer Marciano thats what people want to hear I was 40 and still gave him a good fight. The best fighter I boxed was Charly Burley he gave me a Boxing lesson.

The great Archie Moore (and he was great) never managed to beat the much avoided Eddie Booker either, Booker was a good puncher who cracked Moores ribs, and this was a peak Archie Moore not the old man that fought Marciano. I seem to recall Booker eventually quit Boxing due to eye problems.

Fritzie Zivic one of the roughest and toughest Welterweight Champions ever actually purchased Charley Burleys contract to avoid giving him a title shot.

Burley was also refused fights by the likes of Jake LaMotto, Tony Zale and Billy Conn amongst others, now that's being avoided!!!!

Other factors that hampered Burleys career were that he refused to deal with the Mob, take a dive etc. He also suffered with bad hands, and many claimed his style of Boxing was not 'crown pleasing' enough.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 05 Jul 2007, 13:47

i don't know much about Burley, but why was he never taken on by a promoter that could get him the title shot? If he was wouldn't he have won a title and got the promoter lots of good paydays?

Scrap · Post by **Scrap** » 05 Jul 2007, 14:32

The main promoter was the mob, they had everything sewn up. Everybody thinks robinson wasnt, his manager was a numbers man with the mob. Theres were some great fighters about at the time who never got a look in because of it. Plus they had the press in there pocket.

1southpaw · Post by **1southpaw** » 05 Jul 2007, 16:09

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:
stujones wrote:Specer Oliver - In the top ten in most organisations an EBU champ going from strength to strength.

Kirk Laing should have had a shot after the Duran upset.

Johnny Armour was a long time undefeated EBU champion.
According to Duff, Laing disappeared for several months after the Duran win. Mickey claims he had some good bouts offered to him on Laing's behalf but had no way of contacting him.

When he finally re-surfaced events had moved on. Laing needed money quickly and took a fight with the naturally bigger Fred Hutchings who was on a bit of a roll and Kirkland got a spanking.
Yes, I've got the same story but from a different source. Kirkland would always dissapear after he got a nice payday, and resurface when he was completely skint.

I also heard that when Kirkland would do a runner, he was one of the only boxers who would get on the scales and come back lighter than when he was in training.

Kirkland it appears was sadly, fatally flawed.

from what i heard the reason laing would come in lighter after going missing was because of all the drugs he was taking at the time

Arbachakov · Post by **Arbachakov** » 05 Jul 2007, 16:13

Laing could possibly have upset McCrory at the time.

If he had got the shot against Curry he would have been destroyed.Lucky for him that one never happened.