More troubling is Shawn Porter losing 21-10 to Alfonso Blanco of Venezuela at the Pan Am Qualifiers. Blanco is probably pretty good, but that is still a discouraging result. And that weight class is going to very, very tough. Besides Korobov, you have the 2004 Val Barker winner Bakhtiyar Artayev (up from 152), Emilio Correa of Cuba, and Elshod Rasulov from Uzbekistan (who is only 21). Plus defending bronze medalist Suriya Prasinthimphai of Thailand and Mohammed Hikal of Egypt. It's a stacked weight, and will be very hard to navigate.
I think the quality of the opposition will be key to see who can medal. Even though Raynell and Hylon Williams have no open class intl experience, things are pretty open at that weight right now. Tischenko has moved up to 132 and Cuba's awesome fighter at the weight, Yuriorkis Gamboa, defected and went pro - leaving the chance for a lot of countries to compete. The Williams' are not the best the US has, but I like their chances better than other fighters in some more competitive weights.
Gary Russell has to face the randomness of the Olympic draw. If he gets drawn in the same medal group as Rigondeaux, he won't get anything. A little luck, and I think he could pull a silver. Warren is pretty immune to that though - he has the ability to beat anyone, IMO. And there's the wildcard of the potential new scoring system, which will be better for US fighters, because it can't be worse for them than the current system.
I'm working on my own intl ratings, since I was complaining about ABABoxing's, and I'll post them here if anyone is interested.
WHO ARE THE FAVORITES FOR THE OLYMPIC TEAM NOW
Didn't the latest info state that it won't be implemented until after Beijing?And there's the wildcard of the potential new scoring system,
I really, really wish AIBA would start ranking again. However.....what is your criteria going to be, Emile? What are you going to use for ranking tournaments? And are you going to work on a points system, i.e., 100 for a gold medal at a major tournament, etc., etc.? IMO, because of the fluidity of amateur boxing, I don't think it's fair to take into account who beat who into a ranking system.I'm working on my own intl ratings, since I was complaining about ABABoxing's, and I'll post them here if anyone is interested.
I hadn't seen that latest news Mel, thanks. On one hand, I'm glad they're not using a new system at the Olympics, on the other hand - it would have helped the US team.
The rankings on ABAboxing are based on tournament medals. I'm more interested in making one based on records against common opponents. Nothing mathematical, just my impressions based on who's beaten who. For me this is a more accurate and fair way to rank, since the draw matters so much for tournament medals. But I'm not doing this professionally or anything, so don't expect mucn :) .
The rankings on ABAboxing are based on tournament medals. I'm more interested in making one based on records against common opponents. Nothing mathematical, just my impressions based on who's beaten who. For me this is a more accurate and fair way to rank, since the draw matters so much for tournament medals. But I'm not doing this professionally or anything, so don't expect mucn :) .
Until some people are forced to remain quiet. I wish more people would get involved.boxmel wrote:Yeah - I know.But I'm not doing this professionally or anything, so don't expect muchEither is ABA doing the rankings "professionally," however it makes for good discussions and that's what this forum is all about.
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ABA Boxing
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 772
- Joined: 16 Sep 2004, 13:37
It makes it very hard to do it that way. What will happen if say someone like Alexey Tischenko has a bad tournament and loses to some unknown boxer, are you going to give that boxer the number 1 spot?emile wrote:I hadn't seen that latest news Mel, thanks. On one hand, I'm glad they're not using a new system at the Olympics, on the other hand - it would have helped the US team.
The rankings on ABAboxing are based on tournament medals. I'm more interested in making one based on records against common opponents. Nothing mathematical, just my impressions based on who's beaten who. For me this is a more accurate and fair way to rank, since the draw matters so much for tournament medals. But I'm not doing this professionally or anything, so don't expect mucn :) .
Now it dosent realy matter how you do them, as you will never get everyone to agree on them, same as the 100's of different pro rankings.
I guess we will see alot more USA boxers, which will impress this forum! I will be very interested in seeing these rankings, Good luck
Mel are the USA rankings on USAboxing official? Rau'shee Warren ranked 3 in the US, I have him 7 in the World and emile will have him atleast number 3 in the World?
Yes those rankings are official. USAB gives ranking points for various national and international competitions. If a boxer stays busy and is chosen for the international competitions, that boxer will be ranked high. Rau'shee Warren did not compete in the National Golden Gloves so he only competed in the MW Trials in the first part of the year. His ranking will go up as he won the US Championships. I am not sure why the current rankings include points for the Nat'l GG and Western Trials but not the US Championships. All 3 tourneys occurred during the second quarter (April - June 2007).ABA Boxing wrote:It makes it very hard to do it that way. What will happen if say someone like Alexey Tischenko has a bad tournament and loses to some unknown boxer, are you going to give that boxer the number 1 spot?emile wrote:I hadn't seen that latest news Mel, thanks. On one hand, I'm glad they're not using a new system at the Olympics, on the other hand - it would have helped the US team.
The rankings on ABAboxing are based on tournament medals. I'm more interested in making one based on records against common opponents. Nothing mathematical, just my impressions based on who's beaten who. For me this is a more accurate and fair way to rank, since the draw matters so much for tournament medals. But I'm not doing this professionally or anything, so don't expect mucn :) .
Now it dosent realy matter how you do them, as you will never get everyone to agree on them, same as the 100's of different pro rankings.
I guess we will see alot more USA boxers, which will impress this forum! I will be very interested in seeing these rankings, Good luck
Mel are the USA rankings on USAboxing official? Rau'shee Warren ranked 3 in the US, I have him 7 in the World and emile will have him atleast number 3 in the World?
I'm not sure what you mean by "official." They are the official USA Boxing national rankings. They are using the below points system to determine national standings for this year:Mel are the USA rankings on USAboxing official? Rau'shee Warren ranked 3 in the US, I have him 7 in the World and emile will have him atleast number 3 in the World?
(All first quarter points are based on the Pan American Games Qualifier I and II. First quarter runs January 1 - March 31.)
USA BOXING RANKING SYSTEM
U.S.Championships
Champion: 150 pts
Silver: 120 pts
Bronze: 100 pts
Quarterfinalist: 75 points
Midwestern, Eastern and Western Trials, National Golden Gloves and PAL
Champion: 100
Silver: 75
Bronze: 50
Quarterfinalist: 25
International competitions
The National Director of Coaching shall determine the performance value of each event based upon his assessment of the strength of the competition.
Each competition shall be ranked as follows:
Top tier events*: 50 points for attending and 50 points per win
Second tier events: 40 points for attending and 40 points per win
Third tier events: 30 points for attending and 30 points per win
Fourth tier events: 20 points for attending 20 points per win
*Top Tier events will consist of selected international competitions including but not limited to: World Championships, World Cup, Pan American Games, Olympic qualifiers and Olympic Games.
It is difficult to do rankings this way, because I agree you can't necessarily bump one fighter over another on the basis of a single head-to-head victory, as we do with the pro rankings. My aim is to just go through all the results since the last Olympics and try to spot trends of comparative results and make a subjective determination. And you won't find my rankings with a lot more Americans - I think I will only have three ranked, because I don't think you can justify any more than that based on results.
I am certainly no expert, so my rankings should be taken with a grain of salt (I do fight the urge to raise fighters from smaller countries higher than they should be), and an understanding that they are subjective. However, the ABA style rankings also have to be qualified, because we all now that one fighter can miss a medal simply because of a draw, and fare much better against the winner than the silver medalist. And certainly, not all tournaments are created equally.
I have provisional rankings for 106 (48kg) and 112 (51kg). This is time consuming, so I may not get done before the World Championships :) . I'll post them here with an inclusion of how I think the US entrant is likely to fare - again remembering that this has nothing to do with styles or potential, just results.
I am certainly no expert, so my rankings should be taken with a grain of salt (I do fight the urge to raise fighters from smaller countries higher than they should be), and an understanding that they are subjective. However, the ABA style rankings also have to be qualified, because we all now that one fighter can miss a medal simply because of a draw, and fare much better against the winner than the silver medalist. And certainly, not all tournaments are created equally.
I have provisional rankings for 106 (48kg) and 112 (51kg). This is time consuming, so I may not get done before the World Championships :) . I'll post them here with an inclusion of how I think the US entrant is likely to fare - again remembering that this has nothing to do with styles or potential, just results.
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squarering
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 362
- Joined: 21 May 2007, 00:41
I love it when people get all caught up in the rankings, which in the end are nothing more than indicators of who might have a better chance at success. In many cases it is a matter of who has attended the most tournaments giving points, or chosen to travel to international events. I think we could all agree that they can be off. In his first olympics Michael Johnson , the sprinter was ranked so far down that he was considered the 60th fastest runner in the world. He pulled his hanstring in his first race and was out. In his second olympics he was ranked a little better but not much and got food poisoning at the games, lost 15 lbs and did nothing. In his third Olympics no one gave a hoot about this two time loser. If you bet on him by his ranking, you would not have bet on him at all. So he pulled 2 gold medals and set a world record that may not be touched for years. He blew the compitition away by meters in the 100. So much for ratings. In Atlanta, Tarver was suppose to be "the man" but you can't factor in how they conduct themselves, what they do when they get to the games and how they think. I would much rather pick a young hard working underdog and root hard for him. It's sooo good when they come through.
Re: WHO ARE THE FAVORITES FOR THE OLYMPIC TEAM NOW
the team national of puerto rico come in pan american games, in rio janeiro, brazil.scalifan wrote:a lot of the weight classes look very stacked. is there any suprises we should look out for??
at list is: macwilliam arroyo, abner cotto, jose pedraza, gerardo bisbal, carlos negron, jonathan gonzales,miguel marrero, carlos ortiz
Since we are talking about the Pan ams, is the USA team going to have a training camp for it, and what about the Olympic Trials are they going to be ready by then,also is the olympic team going to have a trainig camp for the world championships is USAB selecting other people to help the 
team prepare for the tournament.
team prepare for the tournament.Good Q's Hugo. Have any of the boxers or coaches been given any of the answers to these Q's?Hugo wrote:Since we are talking about the Pan ams, is the USA team going to have a training camp for it, and what about the Olympic Trials are they going to be ready by then,also is the olympic team going to have a trainig camp for the world championships is USAB selecting other people to help the
boxmel wrote:I'm sure USAB will have/is having a camp for the Pan Ams and will have a camp for the Worlds - that's SOP. USAB will select elite coaches who can take the time to be in the camps. Pan Am team will have approximately 3 weeks to rest before the Trials/Box-offs.
hello boxmel, I do not go for the Pan-American ones but I have a brother in the team that if he is going to go for brazil and he is going to bring a winning medal in its neck.
THE BOXERS ARE AT A TRAINING CAMP NOW FOR THE PAN AMS, THEY HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE JUNE 24TH.Hugo wrote:Since we are talking about the Pan ams, is the USA team going to have a training camp for it, and what about the Olympic Trials are they going to be ready by then,also is the olympic team going to have a trainig camp for the world championships is USAB selecting other people to help the
Oops, I wasn't clear. I know Nick and Junior are going, I meant who from Boxrec would be at the trials possibly. I figured you would Mel for the scoring system, just wondering if anyone else is heading down.boxmel wrote:Duran Caffero at 125 Lbs. and Nicholas Swan at 178 Lbs. from Montana. If you do go, make sure we get to meet.
Make sure we meet if you go to Houston. You can see a picture of me on my web site.