Best Commentators

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 06 Jul 2007, 14:40

I'm sure this has been done before, but who are the best boxing TV lads?

I'm talking presenters, blow-by-blow commentators, colour commentators and studio analysts.

I was thinking of Jim Rosenthal and how long he's been in the sport and what a pro he is, while at the same time there was all the furore about Merchant potentially leaving HBO.

I must say that since the retirement of Cosell -- who I don't remember but have heard enough of to be in the 50 percent the love him rather than the 50 who hate him -- and Carpenter and Gutteridge this side of the Atlantic, I'm not sure there are any clear leaders.

I suppose the contenders for the Presenter role are Lampley, Rosenthal and Dempsey; for the b-b-b commentators it would be Lampley, Bob Sheridan, Darke, Rawling, Kellerman and Steve Holdsworth; the colour guys would be Watt, Mackenzie, Emanuel Steward, Lennox Lewis, Barry Mcguigan, Mccrory and Merchant; and the studio guys -- I only really know this from the UK -- Nelson, McCrory, McGuigan, Watt, et al.

From a personal point of view, I prefer an understated commentator who adds to the picture rather than describes what is there, while occassionally breaking out into excitement. That kind of excludes Kellerman, Sheridan -- although the Colonel does have the perfect commentator's voice -- and Holdsworth, of which the latter two have rather a rambling style and are used to working alone. My pick here would be Darke, who is superb.

For the colour guys, I think that Merchant is superb, but his style is all about coming in once or twice a round with pinpoint, erudite and eloquent insight. I personally think that Watt is outstanding. He knows his stuff and his Scottish accent and little catchphrases work brilliantly in that role -- although I know there are plenty who disagree.

Mcguigan gets my vote for the analysts, because he has a rich vocabulary, adds enthusiasm and knows the game.

So who gets your vote.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 06 Jul 2007, 14:46

In Britain it is a bit hit or miss.
Darke, McCrory, Rosential, Watt are excellent
Duke gets a lot of stick but I think he's great.
Jim Neilly and Adam Smith are so bad it's embarrassing.
McGuigan says what his paymasters tell him too, which is a shame cause he does know his stuff and is articulate.
Holdsworth on the other hand tells it how it is.
I like Ed Robinson too.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 06 Jul 2007, 17:02

On this side of the pond, Darke with McCrory very good, but Darke with Watt is the 'A' team, the best. Darke is superb and Watt is insightful, articulate and succinct with his comments. He doesn't stumble over his words, nor does he waste them. In the studio, Johnny Nelson and Nicky Piper do a good job. McGuigan was good, but I thought he was dreadful on Setanta recently and toes the company line too much on ITV. John Rawling can be very good, as he was for the Hatton fight on Setanta and, formerly, on the Beeb. As for Duke.... nice guy, but......
Across the pond, the late Don Dunphy was perhaps the best b-b-b man they had. Lampley is good and Larry is a great colour man. I enjoy his post-fight interviews as well.
Back to the UK, I think Richie Woodhall is very underrated and would like to see him more regularly as either colour commentator or studio analyst.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 06 Jul 2007, 17:07

Forgot to include presenters. For me, Dempsey is the main man.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Jul 2007, 18:48

An international dream team, all time.

Presenter: Paul Dempsey is good, but for me it would have to be a tie between Des Lynam and Dickie Davies. Both could still do that job well, Dickie is a sharp as a Button when I last saw him on the box last year.

Commentator: Harry Carpenter, Gill Clancy and Jim Watt.

Interviewer: Larry Merchant... Jim Rosenthal on standby (maybe doing the loser in the dressing room).

Post fight analysis: Watt and McGuigan.

No where near the team: Holdsworth, Duke, Bunce, Colin Hart.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 06 Jul 2007, 19:30

I agree about Holdsworth, Duke and Hart, but Bunce I like a lot. He's as much a fan as he is a journalist. His enthusiasm is infectious. It's just a matter of how best to utilise his strengths. I thought his post-fight interview with Hatton was good. Maybe that should be his role, together with some pre-recorded preamble to the fights, visits to training camps etc.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Jul 2007, 19:50

chesh wrote:I agree about Holdsworth, Duke and Hart, but Bunce I like a lot. He's as much a fan as he is a journalist. His enthusiasm is infectious. It's just a matter of how best to utilise his strengths. I thought his post-fight interview with Hatton was good. Maybe that should be his role, together with some pre-recorded preamble to the fights, visits to training camps etc.

Actually yeah, he was very good with the pre recorded stuff on the Beeb. even if at times it seemed to be more about him than the boxer. The stuff with the Cuban boxing was top draw, his Kirklaind Laing interview was very good (excellent idea) although sometimes it did annoy when he put his "hard man" voice on. I'll give him his dues there - I generally looked forward to those segments, better than what most put on in the UK or stateside.

He just cannot shut up when live, and he does come up with some bollocks at times "We all wanna see Hatton have a big cut" - I mean what was that all about. I don't want to see anyone suffering a cut, even a fighter I am not a fan of. The thread that was going "live" with the bill expressed my view on it. Personally, I thought McGuigan's view on Zuniga vs Echols was more accurate. Zuniga isn't a puncher, and while Echols was shot - he was always in it IMO. There always seemed a chance he could land one. His performance reminded me of Hussein Osman vs Rayn Walls. Looked all over the place, but always seemed to have a chance.

The only time I was impressed with Bunce was when he was with Sky. Seemed to be a bit less about his ego then and he made a good point when he devised an excellent P4P list around 2001. He was the only pundit to suggest that even the likes of Tsyu and Hopkins, who were low on the list at the time, could mix with anyone at the weight in any era. I agreed, I think the other pundits disagreed.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 06 Jul 2007, 19:52

Ex-boxer plus journalist-fan is a great combination in the studio.

Dream Team in Britain? Rosenthal presenting with McGuigan and Bunce in the studio next to him, Darke commentating with Watt as that colour man. And if he's fucked off by HBO, what's to stop us shipping Mr Merchant across for the really big fights? He can sit alongside the regula commentators and pontificate to his heart's content.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Jul 2007, 19:55

Perhaps I am the only one, but I always liked Kevin Garside in the studio.

Is Bob Mee ugly? He is unlucky not to be in my dream team (apart from on the stats).. so is Al Bernstein who has held PPV single handily in the past and made them enjoyable - Perhaps Al could be in the studio in the UK if Watt is in the states commentating.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 06 Jul 2007, 20:06

stujones wrote:Perhaps I am the only one, but I always liked Kevin Garside in the studio.

Is Bob Mee ugly? He is unlucky not to be in my dream team (apart from on the stats).. so is Al Bernstein who has held PPV single handily in the past and made them enjoyable - Perhaps Al could be in the studio in the UK if Watt is in the states commentating.

Al Bernstein. Good call. Superb man' knows his stuff.

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 06 Jul 2007, 20:10

stujones wrote:Jim Rosenthal (maybe doing the loser in the dressing room).

Talk about making a bad night worse!

Ok. I'm going to bed

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Jul 2007, 07:05

stujones wrote:
chesh wrote:I agree about Holdsworth, Duke and Hart, but Bunce I like a lot. He's as much a fan as he is a journalist. His enthusiasm is infectious. It's just a matter of how best to utilise his strengths. I thought his post-fight interview with Hatton was good. Maybe that should be his role, together with some pre-recorded preamble to the fights, visits to training camps etc.
Actually yeah, he was very good with the pre recorded stuff on the Beeb. even if at times it seemed to be more about him than the boxer. The stuff with the Cuban boxing was top draw, his Kirklaind Laing interview was very good (excellent idea) although sometimes it did annoy when he put his "hard man" voice on. I'll give him his dues there - I generally looked forward to those segments, better than what most put on in the UK or stateside.

He just cannot shut up when live, and he does come up with some bollocks at times "We all wanna see Hatton have a big cut" - I mean what was that all about. I don't want to see anyone suffering a cut, even a fighter I am not a fan of. The thread that was going "live" with the bill expressed my view on it. Personally, I thought McGuigan's view on Zuniga vs Echols was more accurate. Zuniga isn't a puncher, and while Echols was shot - he was always in it IMO. There always seemed a chance he could land one. His performance reminded me of Hussein Osman vs Rayn Walls. Looked all over the place, but always seemed to have a chance.

The only time I was impressed with Bunce was when he was with Sky. Seemed to be a bit less about his ego then and he made a good point when he devised an excellent P4P list around 2001. He was the only pundit to suggest that even the likes of Tsyu and Hopkins, who were low on the list at the time, could mix with anyone at the weight in any era. I agreed, I think the other pundits disagreed.

well, the ref agreed with the view held by the commentators and Echols was so poor over the first 6 rds it seemed he couldn't even defend himself...btw, you disagree with Barry - he said Zuniga WAS a puncher. sitting there sneering, he quoted Zuniga's record (hence Bunce replied, "I'll not criticise (M Hatton opponent) in case the boys in the studio pull up his record"

Bunce has got some wit & personality. Something badly lacking on that Setanta studio.

It seemed the only thing problematic with Bunce was that he seemed to be there to give between the rounds comments, just when you want to hear the corners. That seems more to a production error.

Poor Richie Woodhall - no one even remembers he was there!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Jul 2007, 08:23

The ref was so concerned that even when Echols went down, he let him continued. Yeah really concerned. The opportunity was handed to him on a plate if he was really close to stopping it.

Whatever McGuigan said, (dull fight, dull show aint watched it since). It was correct. Darke and Watt have a statistian on hand to give them such information also. You don't see them making an error like that - even if Watt doesn't think he is a puncher - he will say something like "he's scored alot of KO wins, but I cannae see why".... not "Zuniga is no puncher" with this air of arrogance that he's seen all of Zuniga's fights (which obviously he aint).

Sure, perhaps Setanta didn't have statistian on hand ringside. However, the fight had been set a fair few days in advance - its not hard for a journo to get hold of his record, instead of looking an idiot - which IMO is what Barry made him look. Whether, McGuigan went about it the right way is another matter (and I actually agree with you there). The Facts are that on paper Zuniga could punch and it needed to be said.... Bunce was fooling the public in thinking we had a non puncher hurting Echols. Its the way Bunce says it also that annoys me, like he has seen every fight of every fighter - so what he says is the truth... when in this case it clearly wasn't.

As for his comments that "no judge will score that round 10-8" regarding the round Matthew Hatton was put down (too justify his redicolous scoring of the fight), again I disagree and Watt would have put it like "well, I scored it 10-9 but I can see why some judges might score it 10-8, especially in the states".

I think Bunce and Holdsworth are very similar, both knowledgable - but both give an arrogance that they know everything there needs to know about any fight, any occasion and any fighter. Since Bob Mee has been on board at Eurosport, Holdsworth has really been shown up as a guy who does very little research and I've even questionned his reading of a fight. When Bunce was the "main man" at the Beeb - he had a free reign and there was only really Inverdale (who knew nout) to question him from the studio. When there are more knowledgable people around (or people who can give personalities info) then Bunce's research (or lack of) gets shown up.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 07 Jul 2007, 08:46

its bunces "hard man" voice that i dislike too stu. no other pundit uses that tone. plus bunce has made astronomical gaffs that have really made me question him at times.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Jul 2007, 08:54

harrygreb wrote:its bunces "hard man" voice that i dislike too stu. no other pundit uses that tone. plus bunce has made astronomical gaffs that have really made me question him at times.

Especially when a few weeks either before of after (cannot remember when) you could practically smell the shit coming from his pants through the TV following the Harrison vs Ellis post fight brawl.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 07 Jul 2007, 09:13

I've always liked the American teams better than the British one's. From watching old fights, I think Gil Clancy was the nuts. Manny Steward is also very good. Merchant & Lampley are top notch as well. Then you've got the Showtime crew of Bernstein & Albert who are every bit as good as the HBO team, maybe even better. Al Bernstein has the perfect commentators voice. Just consistent right the way through every broadcast.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Jul 2007, 11:35

stujones wrote:The ref was so concerned that even when Echols went down, he let him continued. Yeah really concerned. The opportunity was handed to him on a plate if he was really close to stopping it.

Whatever McGuigan said, (dull fight, dull show aint watched it since). It was correct. Darke and Watt have a statistian on hand to give them such information also. You don't see them making an error like that - even if Watt doesn't think he is a puncher - he will say something like "he's scored alot of KO wins, but I cannae see why".... not "Zuniga is no puncher" with this air of arrogance that he's seen all of Zuniga's fights (which obviously he aint).

Sure, perhaps Setanta didn't have statistian on hand ringside. However, the fight had been set a fair few days in advance - its not hard for a journo to get hold of his record, instead of looking an idiot - which IMO is what Barry made him look. Whether, McGuigan went about it the right way is another matter (and I actually agree with you there). The Facts are that on paper Zuniga could punch and it needed to be said.... Bunce was fooling the public in thinking we had a non puncher hurting Echols. Its the way Bunce says it also that annoys me, like he has seen every fight of every fighter - so what he says is the truth... when in this case it clearly wasn't.

As for his comments that "no judge will score that round 10-8" regarding the round Matthew Hatton was put down (too justify his redicolous scoring of the fight), again I disagree and Watt would have put it like "well, I scored it 10-9 but I can see why some judges might score it 10-8, especially in the states".

I think Bunce and Holdsworth are very similar, both knowledgable - but both give an arrogance that they know everything there needs to know about any fight, any occasion and any fighter. Since Bob Mee has been on board at Eurosport, Holdsworth has really been shown up as a guy who does very little research and I've even questionned his reading of a fight. When Bunce was the "main man" at the Beeb - he had a free reign and there was only really Inverdale (who knew nout) to question him from the studio. When there are more knowledgable people around (or people who can give personalities info) then Bunce's research (or lack of) gets shown up.

i personally feel the absolute opposite to you on about every point. Nothing about Barry looked good that night. If anyone came across as arrogant, it was him. It was like his mind was on something else. I believe Setanta put together a team with a lot of tensions riding between them. Instead of making it exciting, they clashed a bit too much over the 1st hour.

Looks like we're arguing over pennies on Zuniga. He's not a good puncher. At a much lower level he can punch (and he gave a raw Pavlik a little shock...) but if he was a real banger he would've put that shot to shit Echols away. Echols' legs were never under him all night.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 07 Jul 2007, 12:09

Bottom of my list would be McGuigan and Rosenthal.

My other passion is F1 and seeing Rosenthal fumble his way through that year after year was farcical - He's plain ignorant.

It's been documented by people more in the know than I will ever be that McGuigan is not up on the current boxing scene anywhere near as much as he would have some you lot believe - He's a yes man too, which kinda defeats the purpose of him analysing anything.

People like Bob Mee, Ian Darke and Paul Dempsey are the guys I like to listen too - In particular Bob Mee who is very very good.

If we have to have an Ex-Boxer in there, then Watt probably fits the bill, but his tendency to repeat over and over the same thing is a huge flaw in his commentating style.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 07 Jul 2007, 12:19

Dempsey shouts his presentations. Come to think of it, I can't remember a time when TV channel had a truely brilliant presenter in the way football and cricket have had. Anybody?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 Jul 2007, 13:21

Jim Watt is the man!!!!

funso banjo baby · Post by **funso banjo baby** » 08 Jul 2007, 08:18

harry carpenter 'GET IN THERE FRANK !!!' nuff said

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 08 Jul 2007, 08:19

Hart is the worst by far, closely followed by Neilly..

Watt is the best, I think Darke is brilliant, as are McCrory and Piper (on occasion)

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 08 Jul 2007, 09:08

Surprised about the number of votes coming for McCrory. I think he's awful.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 08 Jul 2007, 12:54

Bob Mee is very good, he never gets flustered, which is impressive when you are working with Steve Holdsworth.
I'm sure they are watching different fights from each other sometimes.

chinny · Post by **chinny** » 09 Jul 2007, 08:15

I used to like Gary Norman as a presenter years ago on Sky before he was replaced by Dempsey. Baffled about how many others rate Rosenthal I think he’s awful. Saying that, with so many adverts on ITV it doesn’t really matter.
Dempsey is the man as presenter, it’s a real shame he’s over on setanta with nothing to cover. His replacement Dave Clarke is enthusiastic but clearly doesn’t know enough about the game – he’s better suited to reading out loud on the sport news channel.
Johnny Nelson is my favourite analyst because he has an opinion and he’s not afraid to rock the boat.
Think the abuse Adam Smith has had on this thread is a bit unfair – though not as easy on the ear as Darke I rate him – thought his commentary for Corralles Castillo I was excellent.