to those who think calzaghe is better than hatton

boxerbob · Post by **boxerbob** » 08 Jul 2007, 17:17

please choose another sport as you know nothing about boxing.

calzaghe is so protected its unreal....his title defences have been a joke , there is only 1 name on there and thats lacy.

eubank was shot and weight drained.

calzaghe come to usa and fight the best , dont stay in wales and take on bums

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Jul 2007, 17:24

Unfucking real.

Calzaghe Is leagues better than Hatton.

I'm not saying Hatton Is a bad fighter though. Only great fighters go to world class like Ricky did.

boxerbob · Post by **boxerbob** » 08 Jul 2007, 18:06

to mr twisted....lets look at calzaghes title fights.....

eubank.........past his best and seriously weigt drained
sobot........... your having a laugh here
gimmenez.....way past his best , trialhorse
reid..............past his best but nearly beat calzaghe
thornberry....your having a laugh 2
starie...........your having a laugh 3
sheika..........made out to be promising but very average
woodhall.......past his best
veit..............your having a laugh 4
mcintyre.......your having a laugh 5
brewer..........way way past his best
jiminez..........your having a laugh 6
pudwill............no comment , was he really a boxer yhal 7
mitchel...........decent contender....good fight...horaay at last
mkrtchia.........your having a laugh 8
salem.............your having a laugh 9
veit................fight a guy you beat in 1 round again lol...yhal 10
ashira.............your having a laugh 11
lacy................finally he fights guy in his prime....great performance
bika................your having a laugh 12
manfredo jnr...tv star..your having a laugh 13

13 fights who were not even near world class
5 fighters past thier best

only 3 were in thier prime....sheika who wasnt that good , mitchell was a genuine contender and lacy.

stiil calzaghe wont go to america and fight the best...he is protected in the uk...the above stats prove this

sweetscience · Post by **sweetscience** » 08 Jul 2007, 18:24

bob your comparing him to hatton

can you therefore list hattons oppentants

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Jul 2007, 18:35

boxerbob wrote:please choose another sport as you know nothing about boxing.

calzaghe is so protected its unreal....his title defences have been a joke , there is only 1 name on there and thats lacy.

eubank was shot and weight drained.

calzaghe come to usa and fight the best , dont stay in wales and take on bums

try and get some perspective please.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 08 Jul 2007, 18:41

I think that both you guys should agree that we have two excellent fighters that are somewhat different. Calzaghe is a very talented fighter whose legacy will be complete (but not fulfilled) by beating Kessler. He didn't or hasn't shown (maybe it has more to do with alledgedly's say more than his) the ambiton to be an exceptional fighter by feeling it unnecessary to travel and get the major fights.

Hatton went a different route by beating Tzsyu. That fight alone puts him on the radar. Follow up performances (just like Calzaghe)do not matter that much as long as he produces the W. Beating Castillo in the way he did only cements his credentials. He is now looking for big fights (hopefully they happen) and whether he triumphs, or comes up short, he would have proven more than Calzaghe IMO.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Jul 2007, 20:06

Have you see all those fights to comment boxerbob? I haven't even seen all those fights you mentioned.

I'd say you need to choose another sport if you base fighters so solely on opposition too much. This Is common on boxrec It seems.

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 08 Jul 2007, 20:10

Reid wasn't past his best, what you on about?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Jul 2007, 20:10

Why go to America? Boxing Is shit their except for watching Mexicans and Phillipino Imports.

Their Is no good American Super Middle and Opposition matters over ground.

Hatton's read Into the old attitude that you have to go to America for some reason to prove your self. Glad America aren't keeping a ballsack squeeze on boxing as much as they used too.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 08 Jul 2007, 20:45

Twisted Transistor wrote:Why go to America? Boxing Is shit their except for watching Mexicans and Phillipino Imports.

Their Is no good American Super Middle and Opposition matters over ground.

Hatton's read Into the old attitude that you have to go to America for some reason to prove your self. Glad America aren't keeping a ballsack squeeze on boxing as much as they used too.

Of course my twisted anode. There hasn't been a SMW that makes the weight credible within its own right. MWs have tended to use it as a stepping stone to higher profile and income generating fights or skip the division altogether because that way it is.

JC, of course, doesn't need to do anything but stay where he's at. The Kessler fight will prove beyond any doubt that he a HOFer that gives the division all the validity that it rightly deserves. But my reservation is this; the intervening years between when he became champ and presided over it is detracted by what he could have achieved by snaring the big names and possibly ending any debate before it's inception. In 5/10/15/20 years from now people will be debating how JC would go against RJJ, Hopkins, Tarver or Taylor when the proof should be already be there when it was relevant.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 09 Jul 2007, 00:38

sweetscience wrote:bob your comparing him to hatton

can you therefore list hattons oppentants

exactly.... and is 'youre having a laugh' the best analysis you have? Because If so this may not be the site for you

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Jul 2007, 03:06

Twisted Transistor wrote:Why go to America? Boxing Is shit their except for watching Mexicans and Phillipino Imports.

Their Is no good American Super Middle and Opposition matters over ground.

Hatton's read Into the old attitude that you have to go to America for some reason to prove your self. Glad America aren't keeping a ballsack squeeze on boxing as much as they used too.

I think the biggest problem with Calzaghe has been location. Because although he's won quite a few world class fights, a lot of fights haven't happened, and some fights won't happen because ppl don't want to come over here. At various levels, Hopkins, Echols, Pemberton can be taken as examples.

Had Joe made a name abroad, HBO may have been more willing to dig into their pockets to make the fight instead of wasting their money on Wlad, Marquez-Barrios, Mayorga-Vargas and other bilge.

Of course my twisted anode. There hasn't been a SMW that makes the weight credible within its own right. MWs have tended to use it as a stepping stone to higher profile and income generating fights or skip the division altogether because that way it is.

That's changing now. We have two accomplished champions at the top - Calzaghe & Kessler. We have dangerous contenders like Froch, Inkin. Prospects to keep an eye on, like Pascal. Experienced ex champs Lacy and Beyer. And top class middleweights whose bodies are suited to 168, Pavlik & Taylor.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2007, 04:40

Cannibal wrote:Reid wasn't past his best, what you on about?

Excatly, what a load of old fanny. Reid was at his physical peak at the time.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2007, 05:15

Terry D wrote:
Twisted Transistor wrote:Why go to America? Boxing Is shit their except for watching Mexicans and Phillipino Imports.

Their Is no good American Super Middle and Opposition matters over ground.

Hatton's read Into the old attitude that you have to go to America for some reason to prove your self. Glad America aren't keeping a ballsack squeeze on boxing as much as they used too.
It has tradition and history in its venues Max. I do not speak to a single fighter who would not like to fight at MSG or in Las Vegas.

If the USA has lost its claim to be the centre of boxing why did the Mayweather-De La Hoya fight take place their? Why will the Mexican great (Barrera) take on the Phillipino (Manny) over there? Why will virtually every top-level fight take place on their shores?

People, like yourself, keep saying top-level boxing is finished in the US, so explain why all the big fights and fighters go to there?

You go to fight in the US because the top fights happen there and the top-fighters are attracted to the US.

Plus the wonga.

Whilst European promoters have managed to host some big fights recently, the biggest fights still happen in the US.

If Calzaghe v Kessler comes to Cardiff and gets a crowd of 50,000 +, then that will be the biggest fight outside of the USA for quite some time I should think.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 09 Jul 2007, 05:21

Some of Calazages opponents are underated with them not fighting in the US

Eubank - all time great - HUGE WIN and Calazage dominated

Reid - WBC champ, top 5 in the world

Sheika - top prospect

Woodhall - WBC champ, skilled boxer, top 5 in the world

Brewer - top 5 in the world, dominated

Mitchell - Excellent win, Mitchell was top3 in the world

Lacy - top3 in the world in devastating form, Lacy was making some P4P lists and was completely shut out and imo will be shot from the beating he took, great win

Bika - top prospect who may have beat Beyer if the fight continued

If Calazage beats Kessler he will have proven himself the top super middleweight over the space of 10 years. Whats more he will be the first Lineal True Champ at the weight. This fight is historically significant/ I hope it hasn't come too late for him.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 09 Jul 2007, 07:46

Calzaghe is "leagues better than Hatton"

?

Based on what?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Jul 2007, 18:13

I have to say, I think Hatton's technique is better than Calzaghe. Both have their flaws, but I do think Hatton is the more proven.

I'm still not entirely sold on Calzaghe, sounds crazy I know as he is THE longest reigning champion, but still yet to face an A grade opponent. Loads of B grade opponents, but not an A grade yet. Hatton in his "world class" reign might have fought more C graders than Joe, but he has two A grade opponents and he excelled against both of them.

Joe, to his credit has also excelled against the B graders (Reid, Woodhall, Lacy etc) - but I still think that most of the A graders of his time (well, Hopkins, Jones, etc) would have beaten him. I just think he is too technically flawed.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 10 Jul 2007, 19:53

Calzaghe has gotten loads of stick in the last few years from British fans and I'll tell you what, he'd get even more if he wasn't British. Calzaghe's title reign has been absolutely terrible in terms of his opposition. He's fought some of the biggest stiffs any world champion has ever faced and even when he fought decent opposition it was at the wrong time for the most part.

Woodhall, Reid and Mitchell were good fighters who'd already been beat one or two fights before and lost their titles which people like to forget about. Brewer and Eubank was past their primes. So that only leaves Jeff Lacy as a top quality opponent Calzaghe has beaten and at the right time.

Hatton's career leaves a lot to be desired as well when you consider some of the opponents he could and should have fought by now, but those two bigs wins on his ledger count for a lot. He's also got a few names on his record that are equal to the opposition Calzaghe has feasted on. Not to mention he's gone to America and fought out of the comfort zone.

Hatton is clearly the more accomplished fighter, although it's plain to see that both of them have been protected fighters. In fact that's the case for almost all British fighters and anyone who says otherwise is just in denial.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 11 Jul 2007, 03:26

It's quite simple..... talent wise Calzaghe is the better of the two. Achievement wise Hatton is the better of the two by a long way.

That just about sums it up. No need for a complex analysis.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 11 Jul 2007, 04:20

Joe's problem is he has allowed the big fights to slip away. If ppl don't want to fight him then he should have done something to make them happen. I don't belive that means he isn't good enough. It doesn't. It just eans he's sold himself a bit short.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 11 Jul 2007, 04:51

It appears that this forum has reached a general consensus (one or two posters aside) on this subject, which of course is always good to see.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 11 Jul 2007, 05:02

nickd wrote:It's quite simple..... talent wise Calzaghe is the better of the two. Achievement wise Hatton is the better of the two by a long way.

That just about sums it up. No need for a complex analysis.

A long way because of Tszyu?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 11 Jul 2007, 05:11

I've seen Tszyu Vs Hatton and Tszyu Vs Judah.

I was asking Nick If he's saying Hatton achievement wise Is better by a long way because of one win?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 11 Jul 2007, 05:25

I've seen Lacy Vs Calzaghe and only clips on youtube of Lacy.

I like to think the Lacy win was better though because of the boxing lesson he gave while Hatton went through a war to win.

I understand Tszyu's name Is bigger and held In higher regard though.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 11 Jul 2007, 05:35

Twisted Transistor wrote:I've seen Tszyu Vs Hatton and Tszyu Vs Judah.

I was asking Nick If he's saying Hatton achievement wise Is better by a long way because of one win?

We can and should appreciate both our guys. They are very different stylewise and personality wise, however.

But the consensus is that whilst Calzaghe was good enough and has reigned for long enough, he just hasn't put on the fights that would determine one way or another where he stands alongside the P4P guys, during his reign. Hence the debate about how he may have went against those same fighters, where the proof should already be there for posterity.

Hatton beat a generally regarded top 3 P4P fighter and has followed it up with a resounding win against another P4Per. They may have been on the slide but no one can ignore the nature of those wins. If, as expected, he fights one or two of the P4Pers at WW he will have proven more than Calzaghe in a shorter career. I think this sums up most peoples opinion when comparing JC and RH.

For me I just think it's great we have two fighters of this quality. There are mouthwatering fights awaiting Hatton and I think JC v Kessler is mouthwatering also.

God itt makes you proud to be a British fight fan (said in the best Al Murray Pub Landlord voice, whilst wiping a tear).

to those who think calzaghe is better than hatton

to those who think calzaghe is better than hatton

Re: to those who think calzaghe is better than hatton