Johannsen-Kirikosyan, who wins??

[jamesmcdonnell]

Don't write Carl off just yet.

All this talk about levels in right, of course, but just because he got mashed up here doesn't mean he couldn't be European level.

The truth is he had a lot of personal things going on, hadn't been training properly and had poor conditioning.

If he'd lived the life for three months up to the fight and got in with the Ingles every day, he'd have done a lot better.

He was a shadow of his true ability in there.

Not arguing with you here Ian, but what were these personal problems? Hadn't he said it would be different this time, after saying that last time out it was due to the death of his girlfriend and other matters.

I do think Carl could do better than he did, I've always liked Carl's style, he definetly didn't perform to his best, but I do think Leva has the beating of him.

Are you saying he didn't train correctly for this fight. The question is, why not? He knew this was a make or break fight for him, a win would have put him into world rankings possibly, and a loss would more than likely have written off any aspirations beyond domestic level, certainly his own promoter seemed to think so. Though perhaps Maloney knew Carl hadn't done the work in the gym and was pissed off?

Would be interested to hear what you have to say, as I am presuming that following the interview you did with Carl prior, you have some information.

[thepocketrocket]

Shouldnt have gone through with the fight if he wasnt prepared physically or mentally, he could have got hurt(seriously)

At least Bami vacated, Carls reputation is now in tatters....

[dondada]

The truth is he had a lot of personal things going on, hadn't been training properly and had poor conditioning.

If he'd lived the life for three months up to the fight and got in with the Ingles every day, he'd have done a lot better.

He was a shadow of his true ability in there.

Jesus.

Even his own effing promoter didn't have the neck on him to make excuses like that.

That's because his promoter might very well have been, as James says, pissed off with him because he knew Carl hadn't done what he should have done.

I don't need to make excuses for the lad. I have no stake or personal interest in him. It's just my view based on what I know.

Go on then, Ebeneezer - do you think Johanneson's performance was a fair reflection of his ability?

[jamesmcdonnell]

If Carl wasn't in proper shape, he was very foolish to enter the ring against a guy who mullered him in one before, and is on a real roll at the moment.

He's not lost since 2003, and he's a real physical beast. Carl took a silly gamble going in like that, and I understand that the Ingles were just representing him in the corner. Wish they'd pulled him out though knowing all that, because he was getting butchered and was obviously not going to win after that 3rd round.

[dondada]

Shouldnt have gone through with the fight if he wasnt prepared physically or mentally, he could have got hurt(seriously)

At least Bami vacated, Carls reputation is now in tatters....

You're right Rocket.

There is a possibility that he might have needed the money - which is what workaday fight fans often forget.

Perhaps not sensible in the long run though.

[Autobarn]

Thing is, if he can get distracted from a huge test like that, maybe that is a reflection of his ability. He always seemed like a really morose introverted fighter, the kind who can be distracted from an important job...which has to be considered in hs makeup (physical AND psychological) as a fighter.

In addition, of the 4 KDs, TWO were from the same punch that knocked him senseless in the first fight- the counter right hand. It just seems from where I'm looking that Leva has his number, knows when to counter him, how to beat him to the punch, etc.

Let's not forget, he did do a lot better this time. He went 4, not 1, he survived 3 knockdowns and actually stayed down long enough to get some semblence of legs under him, and even tried to gamble on some powerful counters when LK was coming in to get him...

[WildWaylon]

Thing is, if he can get distracted from a huge test like that, maybe that is a reflection of his ability. He always seemed like a really morose introverted fighter, the kind who can be distracted from an important job...which has to be considered in hs makeup (physical AND psychological) as a fighter.

In addition, of the 4 KDs, TWO were from the same punch that knocked him senseless in the first fight- the counter right hand. It just seems from where I'm looking that Leva has his number, knows when to counter him, how to beat him to the punch, etc.

Let's not forget, he did do a lot better this time. He went 4, not 1, he survived 3 knockdowns and actually stayed down long enough to get some semblence of legs under him, and even tried to gamble on some powerful counters when LK was coming in to get him...

Totally agree, he had no plan and lacked self belief - Shouldnt have tried to avenge LK and he would still have a career ahead of him - What now?

[ebeneezer]

Go on then, Ebeneezer - do you think Johanneson's performance was a fair reflection of his ability?

Against a higher level opponent with a punch - yes.

[Autobarn]

I believe Johanesson - like Nicky Cook and Michael Hunter - was pushed for world class when he never showed the signs of being world class. It's part of the problem in UK boxing. So many world titles, everyone wants one. It's a big problem and you have guys terribly overreaching while the capable ones don't get the opportunities.

Someone pointed out the difference between US and UK boxing. In US, fighters are "weeded out" whereas we sort of decide who the winners are from the start. Obviously that happens everywhere, but over here we relegate the talented boys whose faces don't "fit" like nowhere else with a major infrastructure.

The Germans have a whole generation of FOREIGN world champions because they know which talent to develop. Why the eff are we not giving Munyai, Ajose, Jackson, Romanov, all the pushes they need? Maybe we should try to find a balance between "ticket seller" and "quality promising pro."

Of course, you get the special fighters like Hatton, Calzaghe & going back Lennox. But we'd have a lot more special fighters with a different attitude from promoters.

[nickd]

In fairness Cook has already won and defended the European title and was in a position to test himself out at World level. I think his future lies at 130 at Euro level, quite how much that beating took out of him remains to be seen. With a comeback fight behind him I can see Cook beating Kirakosyan.

[dondada]

Go on then, Ebeneezer - do you think Johanneson's performance was a fair reflection of his ability?

Against a higher level opponent with a punch - yes.

Ok then - you might be right. Autobarn's probably right too actually. I just think it's a shame he wasn't 100% because he would have done a lot better. Still think he would have been beaten though.

[Albert]

Johannson got beaten fair and square. It was a one sided thrashing.

If Carl had cited fitness levels and not having his mind on the job what the eff was he fighting for a European title in the first place. As for the fitness levels excuse absolute shite, from the very first bell you could see clearly who was going to win, perhaps the fitness excuse could have come into things if the fight was close and Johansson simply ran out of gas later in the fight. But Johansson was beat fairly and didn't have a clue how to match his opponent.

The assessment of being a very good domestic level fighter is a fair one.