So now we know why!!!!!!

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 15 Jul 2007, 04:47

then he still needs to cvhange something - entourage or whatever - if his trianer cant train him, thats to some extent a fail of the trainer to impose himself

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 15 Jul 2007, 06:06

I read earlier in the thread that a trip to the States is what Khan needs. To be sure, Khan would benefit from the tutalage of a top class trainer like Roach, Goosen or Bernstein, or even Stewart, who may be overrated but would be ideal for his style. The sparring in somewhere like the Kronk would help him no end as well.

But really, despite the benefits, Khan is a money maker here, not in the US, and bar making him and his trainer travel every 2 months with all the trouble that involves for an athlete, it's just not feasible.

I really don't know about Oliver Harrison, but I will say that there are plenty of class trainers in the North who could defeinitely teach him a thing or two. We all know who they are and it may be time to move, because, while I haven't seen this fight, I've seen all of Khan's other efforts and he simply isn't improving. He still makes the same mistakes, he still have the same amateur style and he needs to iron these out and get some real tough sparring and matches if he's to improve.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 15 Jul 2007, 06:08

Something I've just thought of -- and it made me shudder -- was how much Khan needs to improve if he's to get to top class lightweight level. I mean, think of what some of the monsters at 135 would do to him. Imagine him lasting against Diaz? Ooooffff.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 15 Jul 2007, 06:12

You know, Khan has all the physical attributes to make a top, top class boxer. All of them. He has a slim waist and wide shoulders, long arms, fast hands and feet, great hand-eye coordination and natural athletic ability.

But he's almost a pure amateur for the new computerized scoring system.

Somebody needs to actually teach him how to box... teach him how to take his physical attributes and use that in a pro-ring.

Why hasn't it happened thus far?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 15 Jul 2007, 06:17

Carbo wrote:Something I've just thought of -- and it made me shudder -- was how much Khan needs to improve if he's to get to top class lightweight level. I mean, think of what some of the monsters at 135 would do to him. Imagine him lasting against Diaz? Ooooffff.

imagine what Romanov would have done to him. Annihilation.

emma · Post by **emma** » 15 Jul 2007, 07:24

After watching his interview you have to wonder if he really does believe the hype saying hes got a good chin etc. and after all that mouthing off about he's in a different league to thaxton and earl

he looks a right fool now.

humble pie for amir.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 15 Jul 2007, 08:03

I thought Khan could go all the way but I just can't see how now.

ITV must have been shitting themselves when he was on the canvas.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 15 Jul 2007, 08:42

emma wrote:After watching his interview you have to wonder if he really does believe the hype saying hes got a good chin etc. and after all that mouthing off about he's in a different league to thaxton and earl he looks a right fool now.

humble pie for amir.

Absolutely, if I was his manager I certainly wouldnt risk him with Graham Earl and as for Jon Thaxton let the thought pass - I knew Limond was going to be a far tougher opponent than people thought and betting on Khan getting the win in three was more than a bit optomistic - What have we learned about Khan from this fight? - He doesnt have a good chin, he certainly isnt the best domestically, and looks nowhere near getting a world title - Khan hadnt recovered when the fight was over and wouldnt have lasted much longer - Limond could have done more after dropping Khan and why didnt he - Khan was in panic, knew he was about to lose and Limond allowed him back into the fight - The ITV dream was almost over, Limond had more than made his point and could have easily finished Khan off but that wasnt in the script - Khan had to win for the show to go on - I just couldnt believe what I was seeing when Limond was pulled out - I think it was just too risky to let the fight continue, boxing on ITV depends on Khan winning - Not saying fix, just boxing politics, a subtle difference -To be honest its going to be hard to find opponents for Khan - They have to be a lot better than the people in Khans first 12 fights but not in Willie Limonds class thats for sure so forget Murray - All those who said he was the new Naz have well and truly been proved wrong - To my mind he has an impossible job proving he is the best in Britain, never mind Europe and the World - Limond was a handful for Alex Arthur so why did almost everyone think Khan was going to have an easy time - You wont see a rematch thats for sure - Khans next opponent will be one up from a bum probably a European fighter with a few losses on his record.

steve68 · Post by **steve68** » 15 Jul 2007, 08:44

Will he give up the Commonwealth belt? There's some very tasty fighters in the top 10.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 15 Jul 2007, 09:25

steve68 wrote:Will he give up the Commonwealth belt? There's some very tasty fighters in the top 10.

Too tasty for Khan to think about - Would you give him any chance with the likes of Katsidis, because I wouldnt.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 15 Jul 2007, 09:29

Deserter wrote:Clearly the fight has highlighted some extremely worrying flaws in Khan, but while I've found some of his actions to date a bit egotistical and consequently haven't warmed to him, I'm still surprised that people are keen to stick the knife into him with such glee.
Let's not gloss over the manner in which he responded to the adversity - he showed real heart and guts to turn the fight around like that. I'm sure I wasn't alone in thinking that he was going to be stopped after the knockdown but you could virtually see him physically willing himself back into the fight.
He's only 20, he stopped a very capable fighter in Willie Limond and he's got blistering handspeed. Yes, he needs to work on his defence, and yes, there are concerns over his chin, but it's insane to be quite so dismissive of him.
So many of us complain that fighters are too protected and that you can learn more from a loss than from a win so let's not be too hypocritical. The key now is how Khan responds to this - if he adopts a more low-key, humble approach and works on his weaknesses it can only be a good thing.

Well said.

You can't argue with this.

Smit · Post by **Smit** » 15 Jul 2007, 09:33

steve68 wrote:Will he give up the Commonwealth belt? There's some very tasty fighters in the top 10.

I doubt it, I thought the Commonwealth were asoft touch when it comes to selecting fighters to defend against?

glahn · Post by **glahn** » 15 Jul 2007, 11:16

I'd try and get him some quality sparring/training in the US, maybe with Freddy Roach or someone like that. His chin is probably not going to improve, but if someone can teach him better defense and the ability to make the most of his speed, he can still be a threat at world level.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 15 Jul 2007, 11:52

roach would be the best man for him if he went stateside. but my bet is a couple of easy commonwealth guys with no potential to bash him up before he dabbles his toes in more dangerous waters.
i dont think he'll ditch harrison nor should he.
on a different note, hyping fighters is not doing our sport any favours.
if the public do not want to see fighters like nicky cooke giving it all for a title then sod them.

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 15 Jul 2007, 15:45

When I mentioned America earlier, I was thinking about lack of TV exposure and the humility lesson of being a nobody. I don't believe US trainers are massively better than UK ones (although I do have a strong feeling Mosley would be a fantastic trainer, to the right students).

Khan has a weak chin - that's out in the open now for all to see, which means he'll have to risk defeats in order to learn. FW won't let that happen just yet, because there's more money to be had from ITV. The best way I can see forward is for Amir to fight on untelevised US undercards.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 15 Jul 2007, 15:49

Grilling Machine wrote:When I mentioned America earlier, I was thinking about lack of TV exposure and the humility lesson of being a nobody. I don't believe US trainers are massively better than UK ones (although I do have a strong feeling Mosley would be a fantastic trainer, to the right students).

Khan has a weak chin - that's out in the open now for all to see, which means he'll have to risk defeats in order to learn. FW won't let that happen just yet, because there's more money to be had from ITV. The best way I can see forward is for Amir to fight on untelevised US undercards.

I think that American trainers are clearly better than British ones -- although they are helped by the availability of top quality sparring and, in the top gyms, healthy competition and cross-fertilisation of work ethic and technique.

But they're definitely better.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 15 Jul 2007, 16:16

I think that trainers that have been around long enough and have trained World Championship level fighters over a period are obviously better regardless of where they come from. It just obviously happens that the States are where these trainers are.

I don’t know anything about Oliver Harrison, his abilities as a trainer or whether Khan should stay with him. That's his choice. But it appears blatently obvious to me that a very talented fighter, who has very definate choices and who is serious enough, should get the best available.

The most important thing for a boxer/trainer relationship is a mutual respect, trust and understanding of what is trying to be taught with a single minded focus on how to achieve the required result.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 15 Jul 2007, 16:20

Terry D wrote:The funny thing is that when Jamie Moore beat Matthew Macklin Oliver Harrison was seen as a really good trainer and Billy Graham as a poor one. Why is Oliver getting the blame? Why advise a fighter to jump ship after a rocky moment?

Khan looked tired by the third because he was boxing like a nervous kid. He was wide-open to right hands to the body early and it was no surprise when they were turned into right hands to the head. His guard was shocking but he had a poor guard as an amateur. We could say send him to the USA but that low-left hand stuff is big there and the sparring could do his confidence in.

Oliver has got Jamie Moore to a very good defensive level despite people raising questions about Oliver after Jones III. Amir architected his own problems last night and that is not how Harrison wants his fighters to fight.

Credit to Khan he went down and got up to win but Mickey Mouse or not the Commonwealth title can throw up some teak-tough African challenges and you would have to ask about Amir in those fights.

Maybe nerves got to him or overconfidence did, either way I've personally seen John Murray take harder shots, than the ones that felled Khan, in sparring so the chances of him beating Khan are not quite as out there as some may think.

As an aside I wonder what the legions of 'idiots' who Warren addressed, and whom now seem to be boycotting his shows, made of it all? The idiots are looking wiser than even the all-seeing Boxingchat today.

Joint Post of the day

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 15 Jul 2007, 16:22

Deserter wrote:Clearly the fight has highlighted some extremely worrying flaws in Khan, but while I've found some of his actions to date a bit egotistical and consequently haven't warmed to him, I'm still surprised that people are keen to stick the knife into him with such glee.
Let's not gloss over the manner in which he responded to the adversity - he showed real heart and guts to turn the fight around like that. I'm sure I wasn't alone in thinking that he was going to be stopped after the knockdown but you could virtually see him physically willing himself back into the fight.
He's only 20, he stopped a very capable fighter in Willie Limond and he's got blistering handspeed. Yes, he needs to work on his defence, and yes, there are concerns over his chin, but it's insane to be quite so dismissive of him.
So many of us complain that fighters are too protected and that you can learn more from a loss than from a win so let's not be too hypocritical. The key now is how Khan responds to this - if he adopts a more low-key, humble approach and works on his weaknesses it can only be a good thing.

Joint Post of the Day

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 15 Jul 2007, 16:42

WildWaylon wrote:
emma wrote:After watching his interview you have to wonder if he really does believe the hype saying hes got a good chin etc. and after all that mouthing off about he's in a different league to thaxton and earl he looks a right fool now.

humble pie for amir.
Absolutely, if I was his manager I certainly wouldnt risk him with Graham Earl and as for Jon Thaxton let the thought pass - I knew Limond was going to be a far tougher opponent than people thought and betting on Khan getting the win in three was more than a bit optomistic - What have we learned about Khan from this fight? - He doesnt have a good chin, he certainly isnt the best domestically, and looks nowhere near getting a world title - Khan hadnt recovered when the fight was over and wouldnt have lasted much longer - Limond could have done more after dropping Khan and why didnt he - Khan was in panic, knew he was about to lose and Limond allowed him back into the fight - The ITV dream was almost over, Limond had more than made his point and could have easily finished Khan off but that wasnt in the script - Khan had to win for the show to go on - I just couldnt believe what I was seeing when Limond was pulled out - I think it was just too risky to let the fight continue, boxing on ITV depends on Khan winning - Not saying fix, just boxing politics, a subtle difference -To be honest its going to be hard to find opponents for Khan - They have to be a lot better than the people in Khans first 12 fights but not in Willie Limonds class thats for sure so forget Murray - All those who said he was the new Naz have well and truly been proved wrong - To my mind he has an impossible job proving he is the best in Britain, never mind Europe and the World - Limond was a handful for Alex Arthur so why did almost everyone think Khan was going to have an easy time - You wont see a rematch thats for sure - Khans next opponent will be one up from a bum probably a European fighter with a few losses on his record.

Not going to happen. Kevin Mitchell has all the Euro bums booked up for the next 5 years.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 15 Jul 2007, 16:49

Terry D wrote:The funny thing is that when Jamie Moore beat Matthew Macklin Oliver Harrison was seen as a really good trainer and Billy Graham as a poor one. Why is Oliver getting the blame? Why advise a fighter to jump ship after a rocky moment?

Khan looked tired by the third because he was boxing like a nervous kid. He was wide-open to right hands to the body early and it was no surprise when they were turned into right hands to the head. His guard was shocking but he had a poor guard as an amateur. We could say send him to the USA but that low-left hand stuff is big there and the sparring could do his confidence in.

Oliver has got Jamie Moore to a very good defensive level despite people raising questions about Oliver after Jones III. Amir architected his own problems last night and that is not how Harrison wants his fighters to fight.

Credit to Khan he went down and got up to win but Mickey Mouse or not the Commonwealth title can throw up some teak-tough African challenges and you would have to ask about Amir in those fights.

Maybe nerves got to him or overconfidence did, either way I've personally seen John Murray take harder shots, than the ones that felled Khan, in sparring so the chances of him beating Khan are not quite as out there as some may think.

As an aside I wonder what the legions of 'idiots' who Warren addressed, and whom now seem to be boycotting his shows, made of it all? The idiots are looking wiser than even the all-seeing Boxingchat today.

I like Moore's style. He's quite cute on the inside. Has a really good way of sliding his feet to get in close.

IMO when most of us said Khan should have waited for the next Olympics, we were all right. He's still a kid even if he has big shoulders.

I believe Murray is a better prospect than Khan. Ppl get on to Murray because he can be one paced or box within himself. But that's because he's a technically fussy guy - i.e. he likes to pull off all the moves properly. Khan could do with a Murray level application to proper basics. Never been keen on the shoeshining and reliance on fast hands.

roach would be the best man for him if he went stateside. but my bet is a couple of easy commonwealth guys with no potential to bash him up before he dabbles his toes in more dangerous waters.
i dont think he'll ditch harrison nor should he.
on a different note, hyping fighters is not doing our sport any favours.
if the public do not want to see fighters like nicky cooke giving it all for a title then sod them.

Roach's committment to his fighters can be questionable ie. getting these huge DLH assignments makes him drop everything else. Go to the US for sparring/training or for fighting? The latter is out of the Q with the new ITV deal and the potential viewing figures he brings in...

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 Jul 2007, 17:15

Maybe at the moment until proven that Khan's chin Is more shaky than china. If his defence was worked on his chin won't be tagged too much mixed with the handspeed he has.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 15 Jul 2007, 17:47

boxingchatter wrote:Now we know why -

* Khan fights super-featherweights and bums dragged out of retirement
* The O2 was called the Millenium Dome - Fwank can only sell 1000 tickets!

Seriously, Khan was fighting a non-punching super-featherweight and was almost sparked out. He does not move his head, 2 years into his pro career. He needs a new trainer like RIGHT NOW.

And for all the Prince haters - Naseem Hamed has fought MUCH better level of foes in his 13th fight (aged 20 like Amir)!

Who pays you to post on here?

Mooresy · Post by **Mooresy** » 16 Jul 2007, 04:43

Lefthookhappy19 wrote:Amir will NEVER win a world title under his current setup. Khan is in a total comfort zone. Bottom line is he is only with Harrison because he is close to home. And then I can't imagine he's getting any sort of hard sparring. Iron sharpens iron. He has no one to push him. He is obviously surrounded by a bunch of "yes men".

Khan is Harrisons prize pig. His prize pig happens to live in luxury and pay him decent in money and reputation. Harrison can't seriously get laid into Khan if he's not taking training serious, or he's at some celebrity party. If he tells Khan some hard truths he would risk getting replaced, no doubt with some other "yes man".

A world renowned trainer not only brings real experience but also won't mind getting laid into Khan because he's already got a great rep and can train any number of world class fighters if he chose. Khan leaves? No big loss.

I liked Khan in the amatuers and for a while in the pro's. The whole situation now disgusts me. No hunger and he seems to be in total denial about it all. I could swear his actual punching technique and any snap has regressed from the amatuers.

You couln't be furthur from the truth. If anyone is the total opposite of a yes man, it's Oliver. I spar with Amir, so if you think it's easy come down and we'll do a few rounds.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Jul 2007, 04:52

Mooresy wrote:
You couln't be furthur from the truth. If anyone is the total opposite of a yes man, it's Oliver. I spar with Amir, so if you think it's easy come down and we'll do a few rounds.

Must have been a strange night for Team Khan Jamie? Big plus was the exciting win for a great title, but there must be a bit of a dark cloud hanging over people's thoughts, seeing him in such trouble against a not so great puncher.

So now we know why!!!!!!

Re: So now we know why!!!!!!