English fans bet on Tarver

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 08 Nov 2003, 17:38

One of the UK’s big betting firms contacted Boxing-Central today and told us that, "an unusual amount of money," has been placed on Antonio Tarver to beat Roy Jones in their WBC light heavyweight battle at the Mandalay Bay tonight. "There seems to be a late flood of money being placed on Tarver to beat Jones," our source explained. The odds on Tarver have now been shortened (in England) as hopeful punters forecast a major boxing upset in Las Vegas.

"Nobody is gambling on Jones because the odds are so short," added our source.
"But Tarver has been backed heavily over the last 48 hours and so his odds have been reduced.
"We've also had many punters backing Tarver to win on points which again has affected the price. We never expected anything like this on a fight that looks so one sided."

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 08 Nov 2003, 17:43

people are throwing their money away by betting on tarver, they may as well burn it or give it to me :P :P

well i didnt see that coming, unlucky people who betted on tarver

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 10 Nov 2003, 05:47

I would have been f***king sick if it had been my money!!

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Nov 2003, 06:04

Yeah who would be daft enough to bet on boxing eh?

Okay lets try and make this the Tarver v Jones aftermath thread. Notice how I put Tarvers' name first there without thinking? That must mean he won the fight, which he seemed to just.

But Jones was awful. He looked old, almost vulnerable at times. Was it all down to the weight making or is he just running out of steam? To me it was almost as bad as watching Holyfield against Toney. Every time Jones backed into the corner you thought any second now the countering combinations would start whipping in. But they never came. For once the P4P#1 looked mortal.

Tarver can act like he's king of the world if he wants but that was not the real Roy Jones in there on saturday night. Maybe that guy has gone for good.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 10 Nov 2003, 06:06

I had it to Tarver by 4 rounds last night, 116-112. Admittedly as the fight wore on I realised that Jones probably was 'controlling' a large part of the rounds and Tarver was looking spectacular with those flurries but then again if that flurry was by far the best thing that happened in the round then why shouldn't that win it for Tarver? With that in mind when they announced the scores as 114-114 and then the 2 for a clear winner I thought it was for Tarver, I just muttered 'not again' when they gave it to Roy. I suppose this must make up for Seoul now. I would be interested to see the punch stats.

Obviously Jones was not himself and this was 99% likely due to weight making difficulties, he didn't look as muscular and healthy to me as when he fought Clinton Woods last year, just more gaunt.

With the WBO recently upping the weight limit for the Cruiserweight division to 14.5 stone this could be the ideal weight for RJJ to close out his career. I reckon if Tarver wants a rematch then make sure it's at Cruiserweight and then get Toney back down for your last fight.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 10 Nov 2003, 07:20

Bloody hell, Superman turns into Clarke Kent overnight.

Yes he looked pretty bad, but got to say though Tarver fought a brilliant fight.
Didn't score it, but Jones certainly didn't look like the winner to me. Tarver looked like he deserved it.

But like Woodhall pointed out, it was 25lbs muscle Jones had to take off, which must've been a killer.

I wouldn't write off his chances with Tyson so quickly though. Give him the luxury of making any weight he damn well chooses, plus the incentive to get really serious as he makes his last ring appearance before heading off into the sunset, against the biggest fighter in the game ( yes..Tyson still is in terms of $$$$ ) and I think he has yet one more superb performance in him.

Jones UD Tyson.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Nov 2003, 08:27

As John Rawling (YES!!!, I'm still praying) I scored it 114-114. However, I feel if anybody deserved the decision it was Jones. As pointed out many of Tarver's punches were hitting gloves and Jones was in control for most of the action.

I find this very interesting, as many seem to think Johnson and Woods was very close - yet Jones (IMO) was more effective than Woods and Tarver was less effective than Johnson. I know Lightsoot felt Woods shaded the Johnson fight, I would be interested to know how he scored this fight.

Now, I would say that was about 40% of the Jones who beat Woods, Gonzales etc. The stamina was poor, there was no bounce in the legs, no snap in the punches, punch output next to zero. This was all down to weight making issues. He looked unhealthy in the weigh in and looked old in the post fight interview.

I give Tarver credit, he showed plenty of toughness and a good chin, however I don't think he exerted a tremendous pace and the Jones of old wouldn't have been gasping like he was after 5 rounds. Clinton Woods (for me) set an equally fast pace against the P4P #1, but Jones was truly awesome that night.

I don't think this fight proves beyond doubt that Tarver is the 2nd best Light Heavy, because I think many fighters could have had a realistic hope of beating Jones (Gonzales, Johnson, Woods, Hopkins, Calzaghe would have all posed serious questions on Saturday's Jones). Not taking anything away from Tarver, because NO ONE (so far) HAS done that to Jones. Its okay for me saying that these fighters would have, but Tarver has. So of course, he is the 2nd best Light Heavy at the moment.

What I'm trying to explain to those who aint seen the fight is just how bad Roy was. It wasn't Tarver setting a pace Roy couldn't handle, cause he has in the past with ease.

Whilst there's no doubting it was his poorest proffesional display by a long way and he looked seriously beatable, in some ways it enhanced his reputation and answered a few questions. He showed a tremendous chin for a kick off, he did take some solid punches from a big hitting light heavy and never looked badly hurt at all, indeed he was sticking his tongue out most of the time. Secondly, he showed he can win when things aren't going well. Whilst I scored it a draw, Roy undoubtedly showed championship heart because he won the last two rounds (confortably) on my card, this was after a poor 10th where he looked very tired. He's never had to show this before, similar to Lennox Lewis, but both fighters have shown that this year.

Roy can't do Light heavy anymore, he's lucky he's come out of there in one piece (cause it was a pretty dangerous thing he was trying). Its either cruiser or Heavyweight for him. I expect that Roy will produce a scintilating performance next time.

I don't think its age at all, he showed good reflexes when in the centre of the ring, he just didn't have any energy.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Nov 2003, 08:34

Excellent post, Stu. I was always baffled at Roy's decision to drop down from heavy to light-heavy again. It didn't make sense. It was stupid. He nearly came a cropper. Now there's talk of him moving back up to take on a shot Tyson, who has nothing left but his durability and a big punch (last thing they lose, and all that). Jones was always the best matchmaker in the world prior to the Tarver fight. Now I think he'll be even more wary of who he fights in the near future. It wouldn't surprise me if he settles in the new 200-pound cruiserweight division and never fights Tyson.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Nov 2003, 08:48

Bennie, I think Clifford Etteine will tell you that Tyson is still pretty quick when motivated and on the weight.

I still don't write off the guy from Brooklyn from winning a world title. Two of the four times he's dissapointed me he's been overweight (Lewis and Neilson). We all know his problems prior to the Douglas fight, but I'm not sure what happened against Botha.

Now, I'm not saying Tyson could still be as good as ever, but I think the Tyson that demolished Francis, Golota, Saverese etc is as good as the one who lost to Holyfield in 1996. Not particularly impressive compared to yesteryear, but still good enough to beat the likes of Rahman, Ruiz, Tua and a host of other "world class" heavies of this generation. Lewis, Klitchko(s) will be do much.

Roy vs an on weight Tyson would be very interesting I think we'd see Roy back to his very best, but I still find it hard to write off Tyson (simply because there are pretty valid excuses for him everytime he does fail - all his own doing of course).

BTW, I thought Bunce was a bit wrong last night. He said that Ruiz was the worst ever heavyweight champion, how about Botha, Seldon or (sorry guys) Bruno. Also, he said we all were saying this before the fight, however I remember him calling Ruiz a awkard, rough house style of a fighter with underated skills. Hardly the description of a piss poor champion.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Nov 2003, 08:57

I knew someone would jump to the defence of Tyson...
You're right in what Bunce said about Ruiz. There have been lots of poorer heavyweight champions, many of whom failed to make one defence, which at least Ruiz did. Tony Tubbs was a poor champ in my opinion. In fact, the 80's boasted a succession of poor - and fat - heavyweight champs until that man Tyson came along.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Nov 2003, 09:05

bennie wrote:I knew someone would jump to the defence of Tyson...

Yeah, I'm still a sucker.... I grew up with him being on top, and as I have said here before I still believe he should have been class a shot goods 13 years ago. However, its still hard especially when you still get glances of something that half resembles the old Mike.

All I have to say is that its lucky I wasn't posting here when Tyson beat Saveresse, cause I was mightly impressed with his reflexes and speed that night (and Saveresse isn't all that bad a fighter). Also, its showed what a good chin John Coyle's got.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Nov 2003, 09:42

bennie wrote:One of the UK’s big betting firms contacted Boxing-Central today and told us that, "an unusual amount of money," has been placed on Antonio Tarver to beat Roy Jones in their WBC light heavyweight battle at the Mandalay Bay tonight. "There seems to be a late flood of money being placed on Tarver to beat Jones," our source explained. The odds on Tarver have now been shortened (in England) as hopeful punters forecast a major boxing upset in Las Vegas.

"Nobody is gambling on Jones because the odds are so short," added our source.
"But Tarver has been backed heavily over the last 48 hours and so his odds have been reduced.
"We've also had many punters backing Tarver to win on points which again has affected the price. We never expected anything like this on a fight that looks so one sided."

It's good to know there's a lot of knowledgeable English punters out there.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Nov 2003, 10:30

bennie wrote:
bennie wrote:One of the UK’s big betting firms contacted Boxing-Central today and told us that, "an unusual amount of money," has been placed on Antonio Tarver to beat Roy Jones in their WBC light heavyweight battle at the Mandalay Bay tonight. "There seems to be a late flood of money being placed on Tarver to beat Jones," our source explained. The odds on Tarver have now been shortened (in England) as hopeful punters forecast a major boxing upset in Las Vegas.

"Nobody is gambling on Jones because the odds are so short," added our source.
"But Tarver has been backed heavily over the last 48 hours and so his odds have been reduced.
"We've also had many punters backing Tarver to win on points which again has affected the price. We never expected anything like this on a fight that looks so one sided."
It's good to know there's a lot of knowledgeable English punters out there.

Bennie, what was your scorecard??

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Nov 2003, 10:32

stujones wrote:
bennie wrote:
bennie wrote:One of the UK’s big betting firms contacted Boxing-Central today and told us that, "an unusual amount of money," has been placed on Antonio Tarver to beat Roy Jones in their WBC light heavyweight battle at the Mandalay Bay tonight. "There seems to be a late flood of money being placed on Tarver to beat Jones," our source explained. The odds on Tarver have now been shortened (in England) as hopeful punters forecast a major boxing upset in Las Vegas.

"Nobody is gambling on Jones because the odds are so short," added our source.
"But Tarver has been backed heavily over the last 48 hours and so his odds have been reduced.
"We've also had many punters backing Tarver to win on points which again has affected the price. We never expected anything like this on a fight that looks so one sided."
It's good to know there's a lot of knowledgeable English punters out there.
Bennie, what was your scorecard??

I had Jones just ahead. But I thought he would walk it, so it was definitely a moral victory for Tarver (and those British fans who fancied Tarver to win).

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 10 Nov 2003, 10:38

Bennie - I have to disagree there.

I had Tarver winning by 3 rounds.

Jones barely did anything in the fight, and Tarver was certainly busier and landed the more telling blows. I can't comprehend the decision myself.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Nov 2003, 10:43

Loftgroov wrote:Bennie - I have to disagree there.

I had Tarver winning by 3 rounds.

Jones barely did anything in the fight, and Tarver was certainly busier and landed the more telling blows. I can't comprehend the decision myself.

No arguments from me. Las Vegas judging is seriously damaging to one's mental health.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Nov 2003, 10:45

I've said before I had it 114-114, but probably being a little kind to Tarver. It was anyone's fight though and its bad news for Woods. I can't see the IBF sanctioning a title fight with Tarver involved.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Nov 2003, 11:09

One good thing possibly to come out of all this - Tarver has raised his stock hugely now by getting mildy shafted against a well below-par P4P#1. Joe Calzaghe would get much more credit for beating Tarver now than he would have a few days ago.

But could Calzaghe beat Tarver? I think he might struggle with the extra punching power but when all is said and done Tarver aint no Roy Jones is he.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Nov 2003, 11:37

Kilburn wrote:One good thing possibly to come out of all this - Tarver has raised his stock hugely now by getting mildy shafted against a well below-par P4P#1. Joe Calzaghe would get much more credit for beating Tarver now than he would have a few days ago.

But could Calzaghe beat Tarver? I think he might struggle with the extra punching power but when all is said and done Tarver aint no Roy Jones is he.

I think Calzaghe would have a chance with anyone. Okay, he's been well-matched, but he's done everything that's been asked of him and has shown his mettle on the one or two occasions he has been in there tough. But it's obvious his promoter is gunning for WBA incumbent Silvio Branco, while Tarver will almost certainly get a crack at the vacant WBC title (I assume Jones is going to vacate due to his well-documented weight problems). That throws a Calzaghe-Tarver fight out of the window. Warren won't have anything to do with the WBC he says, and I believe him. He doesn't care that a Calzaghe-Tarver match is attractive. After all, he doesn't care that a Hatton-Gatti fight is even more attractive.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 10 Nov 2003, 11:42

Tarver won IMO, bad decision, he hit a lot of gloves but he was the aggressor and Jones work was all backward steps and pitter patter jabs, he was hardly controlling things. Plus technically Tarver was champ so it was up to Jones to come out and rip away his titles, does that not matter anymore? Is it the name above the titles?

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Nov 2003, 11:53

bennie wrote:it's obvious his promoter is gunning for WBA incumbent Silvio Branco, while Tarver will almost certainly get a crack at the vacant WBC title (I assume Jones is going to vacate due to his well-documented weight problems). That throws a Calzaghe-Tarver fight out of the window.

You're right Bennie I was just thinking along the lines of Calzaghes "megafight" with a top American. There isn't anyone else out there that comes close to fitting the bill now apart from Tarver.

Maybe Wazza considers that the megafight happened last time out but as brilliantly as Calzaghe performed that night I couldn't imagine Byron Mitchell staying on his feet for more than 3 rounds against the "former" WBC champ.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Nov 2003, 12:00

Kilburn wrote: You're right Bennie I was just thinking along the lines of Calzaghes "megafight" with a top American. There isn't anyone else out there that comes close to fitting the bill now apart from Tarver.

Maybe they can tempt Wayne Braithwaite to move down to Light Heavy, might not be a title fight and not mega in turms of box office. But a dangerous fight, if you aint seen Braithwaite then watch him. I believe Jones might have some problems against him (I was thinking this before Saturday's fight).

Bernard Hopkins is still the one Calzaghe should fight.

I would rather see Calzaghe face Glencoffe Johnson (yes, I'm well an truly converted) than Silvino Branco. Having seen Branco a number of times I just cannot believe how he beat Johnson.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Nov 2003, 12:06

Kilburn wrote:
bennie wrote:it's obvious his promoter is gunning for WBA incumbent Silvio Branco, while Tarver will almost certainly get a crack at the vacant WBC title (I assume Jones is going to vacate due to his well-documented weight problems). That throws a Calzaghe-Tarver fight out of the window.
You're right Bennie I was just thinking along the lines of Calzaghes "megafight" with a top American. There isn't anyone else out there that comes close to fitting the bill now apart from Tarver.

Maybe Wazza considers that the megafight happened last time out but as brilliantly as Calzaghe performed that night I couldn't imagine Byron Mitchell staying on his feet for more than 3 rounds against the "former" WBC champ.

Yes, in terms of the superfight Calzaghe has repeatedly talked about, this would be up there. Tarver's a big name now.
It's frustrating that Warren always seems to take the soft option for his fighters, if equally understandable of course. It's his job to protect his fighters. But Calzaghe's made his money, he's into his 30's...why not pull out all the stops for a superfight! Instead, we hear talk of Silvio Branco.

Timmbo · Post by **Timmbo** » 10 Nov 2003, 12:57

I also saw it as a draw.There were times when Tarver had RJJ in trouble but he just eased off the gas which had me shouting (at the tv) at Tarver!
RJJ said after the fight that making the weight nearly killed him.
I think a not so weight drained RJJ would have easily done the job.
I think Rjj vs Tyson wont be as easy as RJJ thinks.Iron Mike is no John Ruiz and he took a lot of heavy shots from LL before secombing.Will RJJ have the power,remember Tyson legendary tree trunk neck?

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 10 Nov 2003, 14:57

Timmbo wrote:I think Rjj vs Tyson wont be as easy as RJJ thinks.

What gave you the idea that Jones thinks Tyson would be an easy fight? Simply the fact that he's trying to make it? If Jones were only looking for easy opponents (as the haters continually claim), he would have never taken on Tarver, which at the very least required him to lose a lot of hard-earned muscular weight - that is simply not the kind of thing a lazy champion looking for an easy payday does.

No, I believe Jones is looking for one mega-payday fight before retiring. To get that kind of money, he needs to fight the biggest-name guy out there willing to make the fight. Note I didn't say "best heavyweight" - until he officially retires, hopefully very soon, to free up the WBC belt for someone who actually wants to fight for it, that would be Lewis. But Lewis got a megapayday vs. Tyson, too (as did so many others), so why shouldn't Jones, for who such a fight would be a much greater risk than it was for Lewis?

English fans bet on Tarver

English fans bet on Tarver

Re: English fans bet on Tarver

Re: English fans bet on Tarver

Re: English fans bet on Tarver

I saw it as a draw!

Re: I saw it as a draw!