So now we know why!!!!!!

Mooresy · Post by **Mooresy** » 16 Jul 2007, 06:17

MightyWarrior wrote:
Mooresy wrote:
You couln't be furthur from the truth. If anyone is the total opposite of a yes man, it's Oliver. I spar with Amir, so if you think it's easy come down and we'll do a few rounds.
Must have been a strange night for Team Khan Jamie? Big plus was the exciting win for a great title, but there must be a bit of a dark cloud hanging over people's thoughts, seeing him in such trouble against a not so great puncher.

People said I'd go no further after Scott Dixon beat me, but there were reasons behind it and I knew I'd prove people wrong, and it made me more determined. That was the best lesson I was taught. He will have learnt more from that fight than any other. He also learned he's got a set of balls!! A must have if your gonna go anywhere. Don't forget, just because he's in the spotlight people think he's the finished article, but real boxing fans know he's nowhere near the finished article. He needs time like all young prospects do. Just because he might be our best makes no difference.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 16 Jul 2007, 06:49

I think Khan was exposed a bit on two levels tonight, first of all suspicions were confirmed he has no punch resistance and will come a cropper against the first decent fighter he faces. Okay so he showed great spirit fighting back but Khan must be judged by his own hype and if he had a life and death with Limond then there is no way he will win anything resembling a world title fight within a year. I must admit after last night i would make Kevin Mitchell a clear favourite were the two to meet anythime soon; which they of course won't.

And secondly Amir's vocabulary skills were exposed as well...how many times can one person say "Do you know what i mean" in a sentence??

I am really curious as to what his next move will be. Who will Warren stick him in with? Probably a none threatening African in a spurious Commonwealth defence but Frank needs to be careful. Another lower weight man or a clear none puncher will indicate an obvious lack of confidence in his charges chin.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 16 Jul 2007, 07:43

Mooresy wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:
Mooresy wrote:
You couln't be furthur from the truth. If anyone is the total opposite of a yes man, it's Oliver. I spar with Amir, so if you think it's easy come down and we'll do a few rounds.
Must have been a strange night for Team Khan Jamie? Big plus was the exciting win for a great title, but there must be a bit of a dark cloud hanging over people's thoughts, seeing him in such trouble against a not so great puncher.
People said I'd go no further after Scott Dixon beat me, but there were reasons behind it and I knew I'd prove people wrong, and it made me more determined. That was the best lesson I was taught. He will have learnt more from that fight than any other. He also learned he's got a set of balls!! A must have if your gonna go anywhere. Don't forget, just because he's in the spotlight people think he's the finished article, but real boxing fans know he's nowhere near the finished article. He needs time like all young prospects do. Just because he might be our best makes no difference.

I respect your comments as someone who knows but I just cant see how he is going to almost completely change his style to improve his defense - Anyone can see Amir has loads of abilities but are they good enough for the world scene - The very best have to be able to take a shot and Limond not known as a heavy puncher very nearly knocked him out so what would have happened had it been Jon Thaxton - I think Khan spoiled himself saying he was the best domestic fighter at his weight and talking about a world title shot next year - Confidence came over as arrogance and did him no favours - Absolutely agree he isnt the finished article and is still learning so why does he compare himself or say he is better than fighters who have already proved they are worthy of what they have acheived - He needs to go back to being the humble lad he was in his early fights and try to regain some respect and see where he can go in boxing - As you well know the next level is a mountain to climb so you have to respect the fighters who are already there and not assume you can beat them all with ease - Trouble is he has had so much media attention which you and other great fighters havent had which has gone to his head and put him under a lot of pressure - I agree the Limond fight will teach him far more than any of his previous fights but wasnt it a bit early for him to take on someone with such a lot of skill and experiance - To me the fight was a disaster for him and finding the right fights after this is going to be difficult - I certainly wouldnt risk him with Murray or Earl and as for Jon Thaxton I am sure he would prove far too much, so an overseas fighter without a KO record has to be the answer - By the way I think I will pass on doing a few rounds, as a grandfather those days are well behind me, not that I was ever good enough for yourself or Amir.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Jul 2007, 07:55

I think its clear that Khan is not benefitting from topping bills on ITV at such an early stage. Money talks at the end of the day and Khan is a draw but I am sure he'd be far more developed at this stage if he'd been tucked away on undercards learning his trade rather than trying too hard to impress on main events.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 16 Jul 2007, 08:07

Mooresy wrote:Don't forget, just because he's in the spotlight people think he's the finished article, but real boxing fans know he's nowhere near the finished article. He needs time like all young prospects do. Just because he might be our best makes no difference.

And yet we still get threads on here about how Juan Diaz will beat up Khan.

No shit!

Mooresy · Post by **Mooresy** » 16 Jul 2007, 15:20

WildWaylon wrote:
Mooresy wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote: Must have been a strange night for Team Khan Jamie? Big plus was the exciting win for a great title, but there must be a bit of a dark cloud hanging over people's thoughts, seeing him in such trouble against a not so great puncher.
People said I'd go no further after Scott Dixon beat me, but there were reasons behind it and I knew I'd prove people wrong, and it made me more determined. That was the best lesson I was taught. He will have learnt more from that fight than any other. He also learned he's got a set of balls!! A must have if your gonna go anywhere. Don't forget, just because he's in the spotlight people think he's the finished article, but real boxing fans know he's nowhere near the finished article. He needs time like all young prospects do. Just because he might be our best makes no difference.
I respect your comments as someone who knows but I just cant see how he is going to almost completely change his style to improve his defense - Anyone can see Amir has loads of abilities but are they good enough for the world scene - The very best have to be able to take a shot and Limond not known as a heavy puncher very nearly knocked him out so what would have happened had it been Jon Thaxton - I think Khan spoiled himself saying he was the best domestic fighter at his weight and talking about a world title shot next year - Confidence came over as arrogance and did him no favours - Absolutely agree he isnt the finished article and is still learning so why does he compare himself or say he is better than fighters who have already proved they are worthy of what they have acheived - He needs to go back to being the humble lad he was in his early fights and try to regain some respect and see where he can go in boxing - As you well know the next level is a mountain to climb so you have to respect the fighters who are already there and not assume you can beat them all with ease - Trouble is he has had so much media attention which you and other great fighters havent had which has gone to his head and put him under a lot of pressure - I agree the Limond fight will teach him far more than any of his previous fights but wasnt it a bit early for him to take on someone with such a lot of skill and experiance - To me the fight was a disaster for him and finding the right fights after this is going to be difficult - I certainly wouldnt risk him with Murray or Earl and as for Jon Thaxton I am sure he would prove far too much, so an overseas fighter without a KO record has to be the answer - By the way I think I will pass on doing a few rounds, as a grandfather those days are well behind me, not that I was ever good enough for yourself or Amir.

Exactly, hopefully he will learn from all those things. Some good points.

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 16 Jul 2007, 15:37

nickd wrote:I think its clear that Khan is not benefitting from topping bills on ITV at such an early stage.

This is a far bigger problem than his apparent lack of punch resistance. Learning under the spotlight is a surefire way to disaster. Next time out I'd hope to see Khan letting the opponent do some running; he's an excellent counterpuncher. Herol Graham did very well with similar strengths and weaknesses.

Des1 · Post by **Des1** » 16 Jul 2007, 15:58

Des1 · Post by **Des1** » 16 Jul 2007, 16:32

Only scan read the coments but come on, Khan got a glass jaw? The kid boxed a man alot more experianced, a Commonwealth champion, got decked yes, but did he show courage & maturity by getting up & winning?? To me someone with a glass jaw gets decked & stays there, did Khan? did Nigel Benn ever get decked even early in his career? did he have a glass jaw? Khan is only 20 years of age.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 16 Jul 2007, 18:09

I don't suggest Khan has a glass jaw but i think his punch resistance is in question.

I hope he can bounce back and good luck to the kid, he didn't lose and he gained valuable experience. Hopefully he can take a couple of steps down the fight cards now and get some more experience rather than show topping like a performing seal when he is still learning the ropes.

yogi · Post by **yogi** » 16 Jul 2007, 18:47

Terry D wrote:The main problem with Khan was his recent outbursts and someone should have advised him better over them, especially given that he got the Murray sparring jibe totally wrong, leading you to believe that the outburst should not be credited to Khan 100%. These made him look bad and despite many disagreeing the fact is that John Murray has the type of settled, gruelling style that would be all wrong for Khan right now so there was no way Khan's boasts were going to resolved and it all turned into a PR disaster.

Khan, and SN also in recent weeks, need to sack their keyboard monkey and move out of this "if you can't beat them slag them off" mentality.

I've not read every page so forgive me if I am repeating other comments but Terry D is spot on here.

I'm Glaswegian so was supporting Limond, given another boxer I may have been supporting Khan, however, listening to him lately the confidence does seem to be turning into arrogance so part of me does want to see him getting beaten. That's only human nature, not the British mentality of building someone up just to see him get knocked down.

But wait a minute. If any of you guys, me included, was surrounded by people constantly bumming you up, telling you how good you were, getting you anything you wanted, would you not start to believe the hype.

I think that everything has come too soon. Chat shows, public appearances, book deals, fast cars, designer clothing sponsorship, the massive entourage, topping the bill in front of a World Title fight. Come on, he is only 20 years old. How is he expected to cope with that without some serious guidance.

Consider McLaren as a parallel. Lewis Hamilton is World Class. He is proving himself already and is becoming extremely rich and successful at a very young age. Almost certainly a future World Champion. Is he getting cocky when speaking to the press, no way, because Ron Dennis and the McLaren team will be ensuring that he is properly coached in dealing with the media.

Please, someone, give Amir the same type of coaching.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 16 Jul 2007, 19:09

Grilling Machine wrote:
nickd wrote:I think its clear that Khan is not benefitting from topping bills on ITV at such an early stage.
This is a far bigger problem than his apparent lack of punch resistance. Learning under the spotlight is a surefire way to disaster. Next time out I'd hope to see Khan letting the opponent do some running; he's an excellent counterpuncher. Herol Graham did very well with similar strengths and weaknesses.

I'd take it a step further and suggest that FW takes a gamble and tells Amir 'pack your bags son, you're going on holiday for a year to the US'.

Stick him on some undercards out there where he would be less of a face, plus the time in the gyms out there, a year there at this point in his career could be invaluable....

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 17 Jul 2007, 08:35

Not going to happen though, Warren has signed a deal to televise 7 Amir Khan fights over the next year so he'll be headlining. Too late to stick him down the bills now it seems.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 17 Jul 2007, 08:36

Not going to happen though, Warren has signed a deal to televise 7 Amir Khan fights over the next year so he'll be headlining. Too late to stick him down the bills now it seems.

How hypocritical of Warren, he slagged off Audley Harrison for doing the very same thing he himself is doing with Amir Khan.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Jul 2007, 09:55

nickd wrote:Not going to happen though, Warren has signed a deal to televise 7 Amir Khan fights over the next year so he'll be headlining. Too late to stick him down the bills now it seems.

How hypocritical of Warren, he slagged off Audley Harrison for doing the very same thing he himself is doing with Amir Khan.

Well it depends on the quality of the bill and the opponent. Khan is now the Commonwealth champion... plenty of Commonwealth title fights have headlined other promoters bills... with no complaints from the forum.

Audley was making a pro debut and headlining - slight difference.

MecnunK · Post by **MecnunK** » 17 Jul 2007, 10:02

Goz wrote:
Grilling Machine wrote:
nickd wrote:I think its clear that Khan is not benefitting from topping bills on ITV at such an early stage.
This is a far bigger problem than his apparent lack of punch resistance. Learning under the spotlight is a surefire way to disaster. Next time out I'd hope to see Khan letting the opponent do some running; he's an excellent counterpuncher. Herol Graham did very well with similar strengths and weaknesses.
I'd take it a step further and suggest that FW takes a gamble and tells Amir 'pack your bags son, you're going on holiday for a year to the US'.

Stick him on some undercards out there where he would be less of a face, plus the time in the gyms out there, a year there at this point in his career could be invaluable....

Agreed, this is a step in the right direction even if he doesnt have any fights down there I think the sparring, the change in environment etc would do wonders for him in the long run. He needs to get away from the circus like atmosphere that I believe is being forced on him and his young 20 year old mind can obvioulsy only take so much before he starts to believe all the hype.. Go to US , run in the mountains or some shit build up some stamina and strength that world champs need. He looked tired in the 5th round against Limond and as a consequence got sloppier in the 6th to his detriment.

Naz was alot worse than him in this dept IMO but he could carry it off to an extent even though he ended up looking a clown quite often plus he was better at it than Amir right from the word go, plus I dont think Amir should be modelling himself on Naz in any way (not that he is but ummmm), he could do alot worse than look closer to home..in the Manchester direction..

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 17 Jul 2007, 10:32

stujones wrote:
nickd wrote:Not going to happen though, Warren has signed a deal to televise 7 Amir Khan fights over the next year so he'll be headlining. Too late to stick him down the bills now it seems.

How hypocritical of Warren, he slagged off Audley Harrison for doing the very same thing he himself is doing with Amir Khan.
Well it depends on the quality of the bill and the opponent. Khan is now the Commonwealth champion... plenty of Commonwealth title fights have headlined other promoters bills... with no complaints from the forum.

Audley was making a pro debut and headlining - slight difference.

Yes. Half the time Audley wasn't even in the top 5 P4P fighters on his own bill. Doesn't take a genius to see what an unbalanced, cock up that is. Unfortunately nobody at the BBC had a clue what they were doing.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 17 Jul 2007, 11:32

stujones wrote:
nickd wrote:Not going to happen though, Warren has signed a deal to televise 7 Amir Khan fights over the next year so he'll be headlining. Too late to stick him down the bills now it seems.

How hypocritical of Warren, he slagged off Audley Harrison for doing the very same thing he himself is doing with Amir Khan.
Well it depends on the quality of the bill and the opponent. Khan is now the Commonwealth champion... plenty of Commonwealth title fights have headlined other promoters bills... with no complaints from the forum.

Audley was making a pro debut and headlining - slight difference.

Not really, Khan has been headlining or co-headlining pretty much every one of his fights so far. Very few exceptions.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Jul 2007, 11:48

Bit of a difference between Co-Headlining and being the only fight being televised fully - which is what Audley was doing.

Alot of the time when you can consider Khan as the main event or joint main event it was due to some last minute pull outs... I think on the whole he has been considered the co-feature.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 17 Jul 2007, 11:49

Khan has never topped a bill in his own right to my knowledge. He always supports the heavyweights or Calzaghe. Being main attraction is not the same as topping the bill.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 17 Jul 2007, 11:51

Still the original point was he has been overexposed early in his career and whether he is headlining or co-feature that is still the case. Too late to change that now but Warren was slagging off Harrison for having fights on prime time terrestrial TV in his early career that didn't warrant such a slot and has then proceeded to the exact same thing with Khan.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 17 Jul 2007, 11:52

What about his last amateur fight Stu? - There isn't a huge difference in what Harrison did, and what Khan is doing now.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Jul 2007, 11:56

nickd wrote:Still the original point was he has been overexposed early in his career and whether he is headlining or co-feature that is still the case. Too late to change that now but Warren was slagging off Harrison for having fights on prime time terrestrial TV in his early career that didn't warrant such a slot and has then proceeded to the exact same thing with Khan.

When a fighter pulls in 20 million as part of his Olympic success then of course he is going to face some exposure.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 17 Jul 2007, 12:00

The appearance of Harrison, an average heavyweight, as top of the bill was only harmful to the sport. People were being conned into thinking he was a world champion in the making, even though most journeyman could put his workrate to shame. The whole thing stunk.

Nobody has been conned with Khan. He pissed his first 12 and looked very good doing it, most people were in agreement he could go places. Then he gets rocked by Limmond and everyone is re-evaluating, including the ITV pundits. It's all been pretty honest as far as I can see.

And that's where the BIG difference lies.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 17 Jul 2007, 12:04

This new 7-fight deal, though, is, basically, The Amir Khan Show and low-profile fights down the bill are not an option. I think Saturday's show was billed as "Amir Khan: The Big Fight Live". Now that the matchmaking will, no doubt, be more cautious than ever, some very good, competitive undercard fights will be required to save the show from turning into a circus.