Ken Norton vs. Joe Frazier

DavyAir · Post by **DavyAir** » 29 Apr 2004, 22:24

I know that these two fought at the same time and fought a lot of the same people but they never fought each other. Does anyone know if a match between the two was ever talked about or supposed to happen or anything like that? I was looking through the records here and it just seemed odd that the two never fought one another.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 30 Apr 2004, 07:56

I think the two of them were freinds and thats one reason why the fight never happened, also they were both trained by Eddie Futch I think.
It'd have been an interesting fight as both had the style to make things awkward for the other and both had the punch to hurt the other.... I'd probably give the edge to Frazier but it's a fight that could go either way really. Norton was a underrated puncher and that would have caused Frazier trouble I think.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 01 May 2004, 01:01

They never fought, as I understand it, because they were friends and vowed not to fight each other.

Anyway, Frazier-Norton would be a fairly easy win for Frazier. Norton could never stand pressure. He always fell apart against powerful pressure fighters, and had a weak chin. Frazier tended to start slow, so Norton could last a few rounds, but by the sixth round, Frazier would be tearing him apart and Norton wouldn't be able to stand it. Frazier by KO in rounds 5-7.

THE DANCING MASTER · Post by **THE DANCING MASTER** » 01 May 2004, 02:37

Agree with Marciano Frazier on this one. I think Smokin' Joe would have been too relentless and Norton would have caved under the pressure. And like Marciano Frazier said, Norton had a weak chin. :)

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 01 May 2004, 04:21

Yeah thes guys were long time sparring partners ..but I think in a real fight Joe wins handily... Norton was a rangy boxer counterpuncher type ..Joe Frazier ate those type of guys up..Jimmy Ellis,Eddie Machen.Buster Mathis and he was pretty effective against Ali too..
Joe might get outboxed for a couple of rounds but then he'd come on and pound Norton out in about 6 or 7 rounds
Norton wasn't sturdy enough to hang with Joe

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 01 May 2004, 16:13

Marciano Frazier wrote:They never fought, as I understand it, because they were friends and vowed not to fight each other.

Anyway, Frazier-Norton would be a fairly easy win for Frazier. Norton could never stand pressure. He always fell apart against powerful pressure fighters, and had a weak chin. Frazier tended to start slow, so Norton could last a few rounds, but by the sixth round, Frazier would be tearing him apart and Norton wouldn't be able to stand it. Frazier by KO in rounds 5-7.

MF, I think we've been over this before but Norton DID NOT have a weak chin. Getting bombed out by two of the hardest punchers ever, Foreman and Shavers, means he can't take a punch? (and the Shavers fight was when Norton was basically finished) That's ludicrous. Hw can you go 15 rds with a prime Holmes, all those rds with Ali, fight with Kirkman, Quarry, and Stander and come out on top and have a glass jaw and not handle pressure?? Frazier had a strong punch but was not up there with Foreman I think Frazier would pull out a late stoppage win but just b/c Smokin' Joe was an amazing fighter not b/c Norton couldn't take a punch.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 02 May 2004, 00:34

dempseyfire wrote:
Marciano Frazier wrote:They never fought, as I understand it, because they were friends and vowed not to fight each other.

Anyway, Frazier-Norton would be a fairly easy win for Frazier. Norton could never stand pressure. He always fell apart against powerful pressure fighters, and had a weak chin. Frazier tended to start slow, so Norton could last a few rounds, but by the sixth round, Frazier would be tearing him apart and Norton wouldn't be able to stand it. Frazier by KO in rounds 5-7.
MF, I think we've been over this before but Norton DID NOT have a weak chin. Getting bombed out by two of the hardest punchers ever, Foreman and Shavers, means he can't take a punch? (and the Shavers fight was when Norton was basically finished) That's ludicrous. Hw can you go 15 rds with a prime Holmes, all those rds with Ali, fight with Kirkman, Quarry, and Stander and come out on top and have a glass jaw and not handle pressure?? Frazier had a strong punch but was not up there with Foreman I think Frazier would pull out a late stoppage win but just b/c Smokin' Joe was an amazing fighter not b/c Norton couldn't take a punch.

No, being bombed out by Foreman and Shaers does not make Norton's chin weak. That, along with being knocked out by Jorge Luis Gonzalez and Gerry Cooney(although he was admittedly far from his prime at this time), and being dropped three times by Scott LeDoux, does make Norton's chin relatively weak. I'm not saying he had a glass chin or couldn't take a punch, but for a world class prizefighter, Norton definitely had a weak chin. Frazier was an amazing fighter AND Norton had a weak chin and generally froze up against punchers and pressure fighters. This leads to a fairly handy win for Frazier. Obviously Norton wouldn't lose to EVERY decent-punching pressure fighter he faced, the same way that Frazier wouldn't lose to EVERY hard-hitter who ever fought the way a lot of people think, but I'm confident Norton would lose pretty clearly to Frazier.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 13 Jul 2007, 22:35

Ken Norton vs Joe Frazier friends or not....here is the sim...and the sim don't lie.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 14 Jul 2007, 08:46

Decagon wrote:Poor performance on the Sim's part.

Decagon I have been one of the very few people who thought this fight would actually be close. I cant' remember your take on it but are you agreeing with me? I said the SIM don't lie because of how popular this particular outcome would seem to be based on the many threads on this subject. Not my personal viewpoint.

Or do you think the SIM did not dish out enough humiliation on Ken?

This is part of my archealogical excavation work. The very first thread on this subject.

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 14 Jul 2007, 12:55

I could see the fight been even in te first part of the fight by mid rounds Frazier's pressure and body punching start takings it's toll for a late round KO/TKO around 10-11 rounds..

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 16 Jul 2007, 17:47

Frazier by late KO around the 11th round

Between the two, they beat Ali 4 times...I believe that Norton won the first and third fight. I have not seen the second fight, but I would not be surprised that Norton won that fight also. Norton was Ali's hardest puzzle